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Discussion thread III - Covid-19 (new coronavirus)

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  • First hello to the group! New poster here but long time reader. I would like to add this to the discussion, that an article in the Lancet noticed that the increased susceptibility and mortality in some might be related to ACE inhibitor and ARBs medications they are taking to treat hypertension and prevent diabetes complications.

    "These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19."

    https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journ...20)30116-8.pdf

    Comment


    • Supa
      Supa commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes indeed! Ibuprofen which increases ACE2 activity which the virus binds to, and is probably being widely used to treat covid-19 early symptoms and in recovery. This perhaps is a comorbidity leading to sudden relapse and death some patients seem to have.

    • cartski
      cartski commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi,

      Neophyte here. I saw the Lancet article, and the prior report from Wuhan that fatal patients had a high prevalence of hypertension.

      To me, high blood pressure is common to most of the pre existing conditions: obesity, diabetes, CVD, etc. So it seems logical to do whatever one can, in this period of “calm before the storm” to dramatically improve blood pressure. That means blood pressure drugs or diet, etc.

      But the ACE2 warning above, plus the info that Ibuprofen increases ACE2 activity, may mean that there’s a list of drugs that should not be prescribed for COVID. Diet and exercise is the only thing left to improve blood pressure before COVID disease begins.

      Does that make sense?

    • kiwibird
      kiwibird commented
      Editing a comment
      Cartski - I couldn't agree more. Thank you Supa, again. This is very valuable information. Along with the declaration by the French Health Minister Olivier Veran, https://www.thelocal.fr/20200314/cor...i-flammatories, we need to really promote this information.

  • I have been participating at blog for about as long as I have been here. The blog deals with international relations, and conflicts like Syria and so they have limited knowledge about diseases and I have been trying to take advantage of this 'teachable moment' to answer their question. I have been asked about the drive through tests used in Korea and their PCR testing procedures i.e. what protocols they are using are they using the reagents and probes from China or did they develop their own? PCR is not going to give an instant result and can not be installed at every drive through. If you have links to this information I would appreciate it if you could post them so I can forward them or just post in this tread. https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_...40a4f1e6f2200d

    Comment


    • The CDC cancelled a teleconference at the last minute today. It was the teleconference that was postponed from yesterday (March 13).

      A former CDC director just tweeted this:


      Dr. Tom Frieden

      @DrTomFrieden
      Shocking, unacceptable @CDCgov not allowed to speak. Can be w@POTUS & @VP
      Reporters/public best served by best scientific experts. Today's CDC media brief cancelled last minute. SINGLE most important action now get & share more info on #COVID19. So much we need to know & don't.
      1:28 PM · Mar 14, 2020


      -------------------------------------------------

      Now it is a really big deal if the current admin is preventing the CDC from speaking. A really big deal.

      Equally a big deal is if Tom Frieden does not know what he is talking about.

      What if the CDC cancelled the teleconference for another reason...like a bunch of new cases somewhere? Some new screw up in test kit deliveries that they don't want to talk about until they fix it. (again).

      There will be a tribunal after this is all over and those people who are using their connections to communicate better be sure of what they are saying. Literally, people's lives depend on it.


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Frieden

      Comment


      • Medical Draft info
        For those of you who are healthcare professionals. I remember this coming up during the H5N1 years. It would take an act of Congress to authorize the draft, but knowing how stretched thin our doctor and nurse numbers are, this would allow the drafting of those who are currently either not working, or working only part-time.

        https://www.sss.gov/About/Medical-Draft-in-Standby-Mode

        Comment


        • 1st known case traces back to November

          https://www.livescience.com/first-ca...rus-found.html

          A 55-year-old individual from Hubei province in China may have been the first person to have contracted COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus spreading across the globe. That case dates back to Nov. 17, 2019, according to the South Morning China Post.

          Comment


          • gsgs The use of soap mystery explained by chemistry

            https://www.facebook.com/palli.thord...56594324990583

            https://www.newsweek.com/this-why-so...avirus-1491203

            In Italian
            https://video.repubblica.it/dossier/.../355367/355932

            Comment


            • Take notice of these ILI charts from Washington & Oregon.
              Click image for larger version

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              Twitter: @RonanKelly13
              The views expressed are mine alone and do not represent the views of my employer or any other person or organization.

              Comment


            • Ronan Kelly, I just noticed a similar 2nd peak in German ARI , maybe more people with symptoms are going to a doctor now (?)
              https://influenza.rki.de/Diagrams.aspx?agiRegion=7

              Especially in North Rhine-Westphalia - probably due to the situation and reporting
              on diseases with the novel coronaviruses (COVID-19) -
              more visits to the doctor due to ARE occurred.
              This may have led to increased diagnostics and subsequently to more influenza reports according to the IfSG.
              Last edited by gsgs; March 14, 2020, 11:40 PM. Reason: link added
              I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
              my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

              Comment


              • jjackson there should be something at http://www.cdc.go.kr/index.es?sid=a2

                I'd check press conferences , it's tedious to translate, find links
                I also emailed to cdc.go.kr before , no reply

                they also have something in English, but less

                here an article :
                https://kvia.com/news/us-world/2020/...sting-station/


                ---------------------------
                I just see they have a big wash your hands,wash your hands ... banner.
                I had thought they were mere about masks in Korea ... maybe they learned
                something new in the last weeks
                I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Supa View Post
                  First hello to the group! New poster here but long time reader. I would like to add this to the discussion, that an article in the Lancet noticed that the increased susceptibility and mortality in some might be related to ACE inhibitor and ARBs medications they are taking to treat hypertension and prevent diabetes complications.

                  "These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19."

                  https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journ...20)30116-8.pdf
                  That's a tough situation since those Rx meds are so important. At least the OTC remedies might be avoided.

                  Possibly some of the actual treatments for Sars-2 could be making things worse.

                  https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.w...751-7915.13557
                  The importance of evidence‐based treatments proven in controlled clinical trials must be stressed since in the SARS epidemic untested drug treatment seems to have done more harm than no treatment (A. Danchin, personal communication).
                  Never forget Excalibur.
                  “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed
                  Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                  Comment


                  • Hi,

                    it’s commonly known that normal flu is already circulating. As well, spring melt is happening in the north, so moulds, bacteria, dust particles are floating around and causing bacterial upper respiratory infections.

                    What happens when the prior disease overlaps COVID? In other words, is it imperative for the final outcomes that the prior viral or bacterial disease, or their drug treatments, be completed before COVID starts?

                    Many people in the “calm before the storm” period may be slow to seek medical attention for the prior disease because they don’t want to clog the system unnecessarily. Perhaps its a better strategy to get one’s body working properly right away, before the COVID wave hits.

                    Thanks,

                    J.

                    Comment


                    • kiwibird
                      kiwibird commented
                      Editing a comment
                      There are multiple threads here discussing, amongst other things, original antigenic sin and the problems caused by dual viral infections.This post by Michael Coston is an excellent summary of this problem - imo - https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...nadian-problem

                  • Neither NY nor NJ have released a week 10 Influenza report yet. This is the first time in my experience that that has happened. That ILI data would be very interesting.
                    Twitter: @RonanKelly13
                    The views expressed are mine alone and do not represent the views of my employer or any other person or organization.

                    Comment


                    • French tweeting that anti-inflamatories May aggravate bodies response to coronavirus

                      https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...irus-infection

                      Comment


                      • kiwibird
                        kiwibird commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Really interesting - check out the comments to Supas post above Mcphilbrick. Very important that we let everyone know. It doesn't seem to be disseminating to the health care professionals as I thought it would. Let them know. Thanks for the post.

                    • The founder and CEO of https://www.decode.com/ Kári Stefánsson generously offered to assist to test Icelanders for Covid19 in addition to our public health system. The public health system has concentrated on testing those with symptoms due to limited test kits (as most countries). Being an island it is easy to check on passengers coming to Iceland (flights or boats) and that is what has been done so far here in addition to mandatory quarantine of passengers from high risk countries. So far DeCode has been testing the general public and has evaluated some 700 tests in the last couple of days, half of those tests taken from people that had been abroad recently. Bear in mind that those tested do not represent the whole populations, rather people within easy access of Decode location in Reykjavík. So far 2 have recovered in Iceland, which is not yet shown on www.covid.is and 3 are in hospital, of those one is in intensive care.

                      The findings are as follows:

                      6 tested positive, 3 with symptoms (mild, like common cold), 3 without symptoms.

                      2 of those positive tests were analyzed further, one, S-type was found to originate from the east cost of USA, the other, L-type originated in the Netherlands (and most likely came there from Italy).

                      https://www.visir.is/g/202020215d/te...nar-a-is-landi
                      https://www.visir.is/g/202020042d/he...enjulegt-kvef-

                      Comment


                      • Curious as to whether others have a cheat sheet of dos and don'ts. For example:

                        - DO supplement with Vit D, particularly if you are deficient
                        - DON'T use aspirin or ibuprofen for fever.
                        - Maybe use zinc lozenges
                        - Maybe consider discontinuing lisinopril or losartin in favor of beta blockers or non angiotensin pathway blood pressure agents

                        Comment


                        • sharon sanders
                          sharon sanders commented
                          Editing a comment
                          We do not have such a list. That would be practicing medicine.

                          Please consult your medical practitioner.

                        • Vibrant62
                          Vibrant62 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          It would be helpful if the CDC or similar could come up with a set of such recommendations which we could then publish
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