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  • American wild birds with Influenza

    I'm curious, have they ever tried to infect American birds
    with H5N1 in a lab ? Ducks, geese, swans ? mallard/Alberta , shorebird/DE ?
    Or even test spreading in a controlled setting, a zoo or swannery
    or small biosecurity-farm or just birds in cages in labs with
    limited contact.

    Considering the differences in species and avian flu viruses
    in America vs. Eurasia, it looks quite possible that disease
    and spread of H5N1 in America would behave differently
    than in Eurasia. H5N1 might just not be competitive
    with American flu-viruses which is adapted to native birds
    since many decades. All Asian H1N1 viruses have genes quite
    different from American influenza.

    Once in America H5N1 could reassort with American flu, though.
    However this rarely happened in the past.
    I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
    my current links: [url]http://bit.ly/hFI7H[/url] ILI-charts: [url]http://bit.ly/CcRgT[/url]

  • #2
    Re: American wild birds with H5N1

    no flu in America ever before Kolumbus, I speculate.

    Neither in birds nor in humans , dogs, horses.

    There is one strain in South-America, distant to all
    other flu, though.
    But not so distant as that it could have co-existed
    with European flu before Kolumbus
    I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
    my current links: [url]http://bit.ly/hFI7H[/url] ILI-charts: [url]http://bit.ly/CcRgT[/url]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: American wild birds with H5N1

      http://www.millersville.edu/~columbu...w/ICQA-4-1.NEW

      COLUMBUS' SETTLERS VICTIMS OF FLU?
      An item by Ellen K. Coughlin in "The Chronicle of Higher
      Education" reports on research by Francisco Guerra which appeared
      in the fall issue of "Social Science History". The theory: the
      epidemic that killed many of the Spanish settlers who landed with
      Christopher Columbus on Hispaniola in 1493, as well as most of
      the island's native Indians, was a swine influenza, according to
      the medical researcher at the Universidad de Alcala de Henares in
      Madrid. He says that swine flu was more likely responsible for
      the devastation that followed Columbus' second voyage than was
      malaria, small pox, or yellow fever--all of which have been named
      by historians as possible causes.
      According to contemporary sources cited by Dr. Guerra,
      including a letter from Columbus himself, an acute infectious
      disease broke out on December 9, 1493, in a settlement known as
      La Isabela on Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic).
      The disease was highly contagious, with a short incubation
      period, and affected a large population simultaneously. It was
      characterized by high fever, prostration, and significant mortal-
      ity.
      Dr. Guerra's contention that swine influenza was responsible
      for the epidemic is based partly on historical records showing
      that Columbus made a stop at the Canary Islands, where he took on
      eight sows.
      Dr. Guerra argues that the sows, kept in the hold of the
      ship, would have had no contact with the settlers until their
      landing on Hispaniola, an island where that type of animal was
      previously unknown. The classical clinical description of
      influenza, he says, matched historical accounts of the 1493
      epidemic. Moreover, he argues, it is generally accepted today
      that influenza epidemics with excessive mortality rates are
      caused by animal viruses.



      --------edit1------------
      http://www.jstor.org/pss/1171451

      Some historians and anthropologists argue that the depopulation rate of Native Americans was about 90% within the first century after contact with Europeans.
      I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
      my current links: [url]http://bit.ly/hFI7H[/url] ILI-charts: [url]http://bit.ly/CcRgT[/url]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: American wild birds with H5N1

        Originally posted by gsgs View Post
        no flu in America ever before Kolumbus, I speculate.

        Neither in birds nor in humans , dogs, horses.

        There is one strain in South-America, distant to all
        other flu, though.
        But not so distant as that it could have co-existed
        with European flu before Kolumbus
        Please.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: American wild birds with H5N1

          <i>have they ever tried to infect American birds with H5N1 in a lab ?</i>

          Yes, quite a few USDA studies (Swayne et al) published to determine the potential range of wild species that could be infected/carriers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: American wild birds with H5N1

            Originally posted by gsgs View Post
            I'm curious, have they ever tried to infect American birds
            with H5N1 in a lab ? Ducks, geese, swans ? mallard/Alberta , shorebird/DE ?
            Or even test spreading in a controlled setting, a zoo or swannery
            or small biosecurity-farm or just birds in cages in labs with
            limited contact.

            Considering the differences in species and avian flu viruses
            in America vs. Eurasia, it looks quite possible that disease
            and spread of H5N1 in America would behave differently
            than in Eurasia. H5N1 might just not be competitive
            with American flu-viruses which is adapted to native birds
            since many decades. All Asian H1N1 viruses have genes quite
            different from American influenza.

            Once in America H5N1 could reassort with American flu, though.
            However this rarely happened in the past.
            : Avian Pathol. 2008 Aug;37(4):393-7. <SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!-- var Menu18622855 = [ ["UseLocalConfig", "jsmenu3Config", "", ""], ["LinkOut", "window.top.location='/sites/entrez?Cmd=ShowLinkOut&Db=pubmed&TermToSearch=1862 2855&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubm ed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubme d_RVAbstractPlus' ", "", ""] ] --></SCRIPT>Links
            <DD class=abstract>
            Experimental infections of herring gulls (Larus argentatus) with H5N1 highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses by intranasal inoculation of virus and ingestion of virus-infected chicken meat.

            <!--AuthorList-->Brown JD, Stallknecht DE, Swayne DE.
            Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study, Department of Population Health, Wildlife Health Building, College of Veterinary Medicine, The University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA. jubrown1@uga.edu
            The present study investigated the susceptibility of herring gulls (Larus argentatus) exposed to two strains of Asian lineage H5N1 highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) virus by evenly separating six gulls into two groups and inoculating them intranasally with 10(6) median embryo infectious doses of either A/whooper swan/Mongolia/244/05 (H5N1) or A/duck meat/Anyang/AVL-1/01 (H5N1). Two additional gulls were fed 5.0 g meat from a specific pathogen free chicken that died after experimental infection with A/whooper swan/Mongolia/244/05. Morbidity and mortality were observed in the gulls infected with A/whooper swan/Mongolia/244/05 by both routes of exposure. Gulls infected with A/duck meat/Anyang/AVL-1/01 exhibited high morbidity, but no mortality. The concentration and duration of viral shedding were similar between gulls infected with either strain of H5N1 HPAI virus by intranasal inoculation and gulls exposed to A/whooper swan/Mongolia/244/05 through ingestion of virus-infected chicken meat. The susceptibility of herring gulls in this study varied between the two strains of Asian lineage H5N1 HPAI virus. These results also provide preliminary data to support that ingestion of virus-infected raw or uncooked chicken meat is a viable route of exposure to some H5N1 HPAI viruses in herring gulls. Additional studies are necessary to further evaluate the efficiency of this route of exposure to a variety of H5N1 HPAI virus strains in herring gulls and other avian species in order to better understand the potential role of scavenging species in the epidemiology of H5N1 HPAI virus.
            </DD>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: American wild birds with H5N1

              Originally posted by gsgs View Post
              I'm curious, have they ever tried to infect American birds
              with H5N1 in a lab ? Ducks, geese, swans ? mallard/Alberta , shorebird/DE ?
              Or even test spreading in a controlled setting, a zoo or swannery
              or small biosecurity-farm or just birds in cages in labs with
              limited contact.

              Considering the differences in species and avian flu viruses
              in America vs. Eurasia, it looks quite possible that disease
              and spread of H5N1 in America would behave differently
              than in Eurasia. H5N1 might just not be competitive
              with American flu-viruses which is adapted to native birds
              since many decades. All Asian H1N1 viruses have genes quite
              different from American influenza.

              Once in America H5N1 could reassort with American flu, though.
              However this rarely happened in the past.
              Emerg Infect Dis. 2008 Jan;14(1):136-42. <SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!-- var Menu18258093 = [ ["UseLocalConfig", "jsmenu3Config", "", ""], ["LinkOut", "window.top.location='/sites/entrez?Cmd=ShowLinkOut&Db=pubmed&TermToSearch=1825 8093&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubm ed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubme d_RVAbstractPlus' ", "", ""] ] --></SCRIPT>Links
              <DD class=abstract>
              Experimental infection of swans and geese with highly pathogenic avian influenza virus (H5N1) of Asian lineage.

              <!--AuthorList-->Brown JD, Stallknecht DE, Swayne DE.
              Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, USA. jbrown@vet.uga.edu
              The role of wild birds in the epidemiology of the Asian lineage highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) virus subtype H5N1 epizootic and their contribution to the spread of the responsible viruses in Eurasia and Africa are unclear. To better understand the potential role of swans and geese in the epidemiology of this virus, we infected 4 species of swans and 2 species of geese with an HPAI virus of Asian lineage recovered from a whooper swan in Mongolia in 2005, A/whooper swan/Mongolia/244/2005 (H5N1). The highest mortality rates were observed in swans, and species-related differences in clinical illness and viral shedding were evident. These results suggest that the potential for HPAI (H5N1) viral shedding and the movement of infected birds may be species-dependent and can help explain observed deaths associated with HPAI (H5N1) infection in anseriforms in Eurasia.
              </DD>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                I'm curious, have they ever tried to infect American birds
                with H5N1 in a lab ? Ducks, geese, swans ? mallard/Alberta , shorebird/DE ?
                Or even test spreading in a controlled setting, a zoo or swannery
                or small biosecurity-farm or just birds in cages in labs with
                limited contact.

                Considering the differences in species and avian flu viruses
                in America vs. Eurasia, it looks quite possible that disease
                and spread of H5N1 in America would behave differently
                than in Eurasia. H5N1 might just not be competitive
                with American flu-viruses which is adapted to native birds
                since many decades. All Asian H1N1 viruses have genes quite
                different from American influenza.

                Once in America H5N1 could reassort with American flu, though.
                However this rarely happened in the past.
                1: J Wildl Dis. 2007 Oct;43(4):660-7. <SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.2><!-- var Menu17984261 = [ ["UseLocalConfig", "jsmenu3Config", "", ""], ["LinkOut", "window.top.location='/sites/entrez?Cmd=ShowLinkOut&Db=pubmed&TermToSearch=1798 4261&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubm ed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubme d_RVAbstractPlus' ", "", ""] ] --></SCRIPT>Links
                <DD class=abstract>
                Susceptibility of wood ducks to H5N1 highly pathogenic avian influenza virus.

                <!--AuthorList-->Brown JD, Stallknecht DE, Valeika S, Swayne DE.
                Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Study, Department of Population Health, Wildlife Health Building, College of Veterinary Medicine, The University of Georgia, Athens, Georgia 30602, USA. jbrown@vet.uga.edu
                Since 2002, H5N1 highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) viruses have caused mortality in numerous species of wild birds; this is atypical for avian influenza virus (AIV) infections in these avian species, especially for species within the order Anseriformes. Although these infections document the susceptibility of wild birds to H5N1 HPAI viruses and the spillover of these viruses from infected domestic birds to wild birds, it is unknown whether H5N1 HPAI viruses can persist in free-living avian populations. In a previous study, we established that wood ducks (Aix sponsa) are highly susceptible to infection with H5N1 HPAI viruses. To quantify this susceptibility and further evaluate the likelihood of H5N1 HPAI viral maintenance in a wild bird population, we determined the concentration of virus required to produce infection in wood ducks. To accomplish this, 25 wood ducks were inoculated intranasally at 12-16 wk of age with decreasing concentrations of a H5N1 HPAI virus (A/Whooper Swan/Mongolia/244/05 [H5N1]). The median infectious dose and the lethal dose of H5N1 HPAI virus in wood ducks were very low (10(0.95) and 10(1.71) median embryo infectious dose [EID(50)]/ml, respectively) and less than that of chickens (10(2.80) and 10(2.80) EID(50)/ml). These results confirm that wood ducks are highly susceptible to infection with H5N1 HPAI virus. The data from this study, combined with what is known experimentally about H5N1 HPAI virus infection in wood ducks and viral persistence in aquatic environments, suggest that the wood duck would represent a sensitive indicator species for H5N1 HPAI. Results also suggest that the potential for decreased transmission efficiency associated with reduced viral shedding (especially from the cloaca) and a loss of environmental fitness (in water), may be offset by the ability of this virus to be transmitted through a very low infectious dose.
                PMID: 17984261 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
                </DD>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                  ... searching Swayne - papers at pubmed...


                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18622855

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18436667
                  > These results suggest that AIV infection among shorebirds (Scolopacidae) may be localized,
                  > species specific, and highly variable in relation to AIV subtype diversity.

                  http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/14/1/136.htm
                  > We used 4 species of swans and 2 species of geese in this study: whooper swan,
                  > black swan (C. atratus), trumpeter swan (C. buccinator), mute swan, bar-headed goose,
                  > and cackling goose (B. hutchinsii). All birds used in this study were bred in captivity and
                  > purchased from commercial breeders in the United States.

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17984261
                  > These results confirm that wood ducks are highly susceptible to infection with H5N1 HPAI virus

                  ##wood ducks occur in America, but rarely in genbank. Most are mallards,shorebirds,
                  ##turnstones

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17553268
                  Asian-origin avian influenza (AI) viruses are spread in part by migratory birds. In Alaska, diverse avian hosts from Asia and the Americas overlap in a region of intercontinental avifaunal mixing. This region is hypothesized to be a zone of Asia-to-America virus transfer because birds there can mingle in waters contaminated by wild-bird-origin AI viruses. Our 7 years of AI virus surveillance among waterfowl and shorebirds in this region (1998-2004; 8,254 samples) showed remarkably low infection rates (0.06&#37. Our findings suggest an Arctic effect on viral ecology, caused perhaps by low ecosystem productivity and low host densities relative to available water. Combined with a synthesis of avian diversity and abundance, intercontinental host movements, and genetic analyses, our results suggest that the risk and probably the frequency of intercontinental virus transfer in this region are relatively low.


                  http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol12no11/06-0652.htm
                  We assessed the clinical response and extent and duration of viral shedding in 5 species of North American ducks and laughing gulls (Larus atricilla) after intranasal challenge with 2 Asian H5N1 HPAI viruses. Birds were challenged at ≈10 to 16 weeks of age, consistent with temporal peaks in virus prevalence and fall migration. All species were infected, but only wood ducks (Aix sponsa) and laughing gulls exhibited illness or died. Viral titers were higher in oropharyngeal swabs than in cloacal swabs. Duration of viral shedding (1–10 days) increased with severity of clinical disease
                  Five species of indigenous North American ducks were used in this study: mallard (Anas platyrhynchos), northern pintail (Anas acuta), blue-winged teal (Anas crecca), redhead (Aythya americana), and wood duck (Aix sponsa).
                  All ducks used in this study were captive-bred

                  ##nutrition and contacting habits could play a role

                  Illness, deaths, and viral shedding were less in our study than what has previously been reported for experimental inoculation of ducks with H5N1 HPAI virus
                  I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                  my current links: [url]http://bit.ly/hFI7H[/url] ILI-charts: [url]http://bit.ly/CcRgT[/url]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                    [QUOTE=gsgs;169706]http://www.millersville.edu/~columbu...w/ICQA-4-1.NEW

                    COLUMBUS' SETTLERS VICTIMS OF FLU?
                    An item by Ellen K. Coughlin in "The Chronicle of Higher
                    Education" reports on research by Francisco Guerra which appeared
                    in the fall issue of "Social Science History"......

                    Dr. Guerra argues that the sows, kept in the hold of the
                    ship, would have had "no contact" with the settlers until their
                    landing on Hispaniola,....

                    *****************

                    The ships these settlers came to the new world on were no modern cruise liners. These ships were exceedingly small, slow and cumbersome even by the state of the art standards of the mid 1800's. Adequate ventilation thru hatch covers was just not going to happen if the ship was becalmed (windless days). Maybe the settlers did not come in direct contact while on board with the pigs but someone had to feed, water and clean up after the animals and these people came in contact with the settles. The airborne stench of living in close quarters with animals also probably made to the noses and lungs of said settlers. Waste from animals and humans may have been carried out in the same buckets, buckets that were then reused for other purposes. The waste from both could also have also ended up in the ships bildge. It may have been hard to get away from the stench.

                    My bet is that the close quaters on the ships were a perfect place to introduce human flu viruses to pigs and when the pigs got off the ship and were introduced to new world avian flu viruses they had no immunity to they became the perfect mixing vat for a completly new fllu with high CFR.
                    We were put on this earth to help and take care of one another.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                      [quote=Amish Country;169736]
                      Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                      http://www.millersville.edu/~columbu...w/ICQA-4-1.NEW

                      COLUMBUS' SETTLERS VICTIMS OF FLU?
                      An item by Ellen K. Coughlin in "The Chronicle of Higher
                      Education" reports on research by Francisco Guerra which appeared
                      in the fall issue of "Social Science History"......

                      Dr. Guerra argues that the sows, kept in the hold of the
                      ship, would have had "no contact" with the settlers until their
                      landing on Hispaniola,....

                      *****************

                      The ships these settlers came to the new world on were no modern cruise liners. These ships were exceedingly small, slow and cumbersome even by the state of the art standards of the mid 1800's. Adequate ventilation thru hatch covers was just not going to happen if the ship was becalmed (windless days). Maybe the settlers did not come in direct contact while on board with the pigs but someone had to feed, water and clean up after the animals and these people came in contact with the settles. The airborne stench of living in close quarters with animals also probably made to the noses and lungs of said settlers. Waste from animals and humans may have been carried out in the same buckets, buckets that were then reused for other purposes. The waste from both could also have also ended up in the ships bildge. It may have been hard to get away from the stench.

                      My bet is that the close quaters on the ships were a perfect place to introduce human flu viruses to pigs and when the pigs got off the ship and were introduced to new world avian flu viruses they had no immunity to they became the perfect mixing vat for a completly new fllu with high CFR.
                      Very interesting point of view.

                      Although I think that influenza viruses were - with high probability - already circulating in autoctonous populations of north America who surely entered in contact with wild birds and other animals. Of course, nothing could be proven today of these ancient civilizations rapidly destroyed when European invades New World.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                        Another interesting read: 1491
                        http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200203/mann

                        Influenza sure came in the century after European explorers began their conquest of the Americas.

                        Beforehand, in the indigenous people's population?

                        Perhaps, in the heavily populated areas of Central and South America.

                        Estimates of pre-European Conquest populations of North America is very iffy, and post-invasion estimates of die-off from waves of disease - nearly impossible.

                        The only records were kept by missionaries. Many have been lost - the records that remain were ethnically and culturally biased.

                        +++++

                        The USDA scores negative points for not making more of their avian influenza study publications available in journals providing open access articles.

                        Bah humbug.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                          how would influenza have come to America ?
                          How jumped to humans without domesticated animals ?
                          How successfully spread without ships,horses ?

                          Why would not the Europeans be attacked by a
                          native American virus ?
                          I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                          my current links: [url]http://bit.ly/hFI7H[/url] ILI-charts: [url]http://bit.ly/CcRgT[/url]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                            Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                            how would influenza have come to America ?
                            How jumped to humans without domesticated animals ?
                            How successfully spread without ships,horses ?

                            Why would not the Europeans be attacked by a
                            native American virus ?
                            Birds fly. Influenza is an avian disease.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: American wild birds with H5N1

                              Birds fly. Influenza is an avian disease.
                              CSI:WORLD http://swineflumagazine.blogspot.com/

                              treyfish2004@yahoo.com

                              Comment

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