Profiteering is off limits?

[StL Bill]

I haven't posted or read here in a while, being quite caught up in the pandemic planning for St. Louis.

I read with dismay the last post on the Trading in the Pandemic Shorts and Puts......"It is my opinion that it is highly immoral to continue the debate of how to profit from a potential pandemic. This exercise was entertaining a few weeks ago. Now, however, it is inappropriate....Profiteering from a pandemic is "off limits"."

This is absurd. Financial planning is a contingency action like stocking food.

Profiteer: one who makes what is considered an unreasonable profit especially on the sale of essential goods during times of emergency.

How is it immoral to 'discuss' the impact of a pandemic on financial assets..to predict outcomes and suggest ways to invest in those expected outcomes?

Is it that you think this speculation somehow can influence the likelihood of a pandemic occurence? If that were true, then it would be immoral.

Is it because you think that during a pandemic everything should be 'bad' and that the notion of profiting from financial transactions would somehow be a 'happy' event when we should all feel miserable....in other words, does my making money somehow heap more misery on other people or make me care less about the unfortunates that succumb...in other families and mine?

Are my profits somehow stealing the well-being or the needed resources of food and medicine from the needy?

It's investing, not profiteering. Attaching morality to it is simply irrational...there is no association.

"I think it is immoral and thus YOU all are censored"....that is far closer to immorality than financial planning for pandemic impacts.

Sorry, but you've lost another poster to this site.

Thanks for understanding.....

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

Bill -

Financial planning for a pandemic is advisable. I have written many posts on this subject and I have contributed to a pandemic planning manual in this regard.

However, profiteering from a calamity, such as a pandemic, is quite another issue.

We all must make choices in how we conduct ourselves. As an owner of this site I "de facto" endorse any discussion that I allow to be discussed here.

For me, personally, profiting from a pandemic is in direct conflict with my beliefs in human respect and dignity.

I encourage posts and threads on business and economic issues.

I am sorry that you are leaving.


S.

[Mellie]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

What one does with one's life could be considered a job, a career or a calling.

I understand Florida1 your position and you own the site, so you get to say what goes. I disagree with you on this action, however.

First, I think if one's job, career, or calling in life is business, then labeling it "profiteering" is a put down. Yeah, I understand you're saying you don't care if it goes on, just not here...

Second, if we're looking at the worst case scenario with this pandemic, then post-pandemic we're going to need the economic thinkers, the business people who have the guts to think outside the box while knowing the box, to speculate, to teach us why they'd make this choice or that and what might live in those choices and when we might make them.

We're going to need those who don't hesitate to tell the financial truth as they see it in a nice way. It's one thing to copy and paste financial articles here. There's little learning for me in that, it's all just blah blah blah that I don't understand without some context. The real learning has come almost by osmosis overhearing the conversations that have occurred on the two threads where people have talked about finances in the context of what they think might be coming. I finally amassed enough info after seeing the topic come up day in and day out to finally decide to do some financial preps. I finally had some investing friends here I could ask and expect a straight answer from so I could finally do it. And I did.

I think lots of people who are getting prepared are like me. They do the stuff that's easier first and put off the stuff they don't feel educated or experienced enough to do until later. The financial was our family's last prep. I think many people reading here have not financially prepped. Their opportunity to have the learning experience I did just got shut down. Oh well, their loss. My loss too.

StL Bill, I hope we can stay in touch. I consider you a friend and a fine person who is balancing doing your business in the marketplace while simultaneously helping with pandemic planning for your community of St Louis.

Be Safe. Please let me know if you find a place where our group's financial conversations go on... I would love to lurk both for the recreation and for the learning.

Mellie

PS. Gold jumped above 600 today. (smooch) to all of you who posted on the two closed threads and who began to teach me a little bit of what you know. The most stressful uncertainty is knowing there's a world of critical survival info out there and you don't know how to access it and you have no friends who know who will give you pointers. Sure, you can pay people to give you financial pointers, but if your choice following their pointers is tied to anything in it for them, you probably just get their line of BS.

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

What one does with one's life could be considered a job, a career or a calling.

I understand Florida1 your position and you own the site, so you get to say what goes. I disagree with you on this action, however.

First, I think if one's job, career, or calling in life is business, then labeling it "profiteering" is a put down. Yeah, I understand you're saying you don't care if it goes on, just not here...

Second, if we're looking at the worst case scenario with this pandemic, then post-pandemic we're going to need the economic thinkers, the business people who have the guts to think outside the box while knowing the box, to speculate, to teach us why they'd make this choice or that and what might live in those choices and when we might make them.

We're going to need those who don't hesitate to tell the financial truth as they see it in a nice way. It's one thing to copy and paste financial articles here. There's little learning for me in that, it's all just blah blah blah that I don't understand without some context. The real learning has come almost by osmosis overhearing the conversations that have occurred on the two threads where people have talked about finances in the context of what they think might be coming. I finally amassed enough info after seeing the topic come up day in and day out to finally decide to do some financial preps. I finally had some investing friends here I could ask and expect a straight answer from so I could finally do it. And I did.

I think lots of people who are getting prepared are like me. They do the stuff that's easier first and put off the stuff they don't feel educated or experienced enough to do until later. The financial was our family's last prep. I think many people reading here have not financially prepped. Their opportunity to have the learning experience I did just got shut down. Oh well, their loss. My loss too.

StL Bill, I hope we can stay in touch. I consider you a friend and a fine person who is balancing doing your business in the marketplace while simultaneously helping with pandemic planning for your community of St Louis.

Be Safe. Please let me know if you find a place where our group's financial conversations go on... I would love to lurk both for the recreation and for the learning.

Mellie

PS. Gold jumped above 600 today. (smooch) to all of you who posted on the two closed threads and who began to teach me a little bit of what you know. The most stressful uncertainty is knowing there's a world of critical survival info out there and you don't know how to access it and you have no friends who know who will give you pointers. Sure, you can pay people to give you financial pointers, but if your choice following their pointers is tied to anything in it for them, you probably just get their line of BS.

I encourage all types of financial discussion. I am asking that the emphasis not be on how to take advantage of the misfortune of a pandemic. I did not expect this to be such a controversial position.

I, too, am a business person.

Again, I also encourage financial preparations and I have contributed much in this area.

There is a huge distinction between financial preparations and financial profiteering.

[Goju]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

I am in total agreement. Due to all of the financial discussions here, I realized that my $$$ was not safe. I had not considered my financial preps.

I feel $$$ much better now, as my water, food, meds and $$$ are ready for a mild to moderate pandemic.

Since it is a financial thread...
I have moved most of my IRA into 2-3 year treasuries (hope thats long enough) and gold stocks (which i bought on GR's advice at $550.00 yippie!)
401k because of restictions are now in MM accoount - out of the funds.

Any other advice?

Goju
keep balanced

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

Goju - I would add that FDIC or U.S. treasury backed financial instruments are the safest.

[Goju]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

F1 -

Are 2-3 year treasury notes safe?

Given the slow but steady H5N1 progress, what do you think of the time frame of 2-3 year notes? should they be 5 years?

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

The reason I say 2 to 3 years is because:

1) The interest rate paid on the 5 year note is only slightly higher,

2) You want access to your $$$, if needed, for alternative investments or cash needs. You can always re-invest in another treasury when the current ones expire.

[Goju]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

And insofar as the gold stocks, do you feel they are a safe bet? ... would you call it profiteering if i thought they were going to skyrocket because of pandemic thereby offsetting the small return of the treasuries & MM acounts?

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

I do not recommend the metals. They are too volatile. This has been seen in recent months. For most people this kind of investment is too risky. Only invest in these if you have money "to burn".

[Binkerbear]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

Only invest in these if you have money "to burn". -F1
Okay F1, you're officially noted and on the record. As I have said many times, even conservative financial planners will often advise a 5% position.

I completely agree with Mellie and StL Bill while I also completely support F1's decision since a whole lot of people apparently do construe these discussions as profiteering rather than as prepping ...and this is F1's forum. I think that I have been guilty in the past of getting caught up in the excitement of the short-term moves in our direction, which although a fun distraction (from the serious nature of the situation) for us goldbugs and preppers, it is unfair to others.

I would propose that we could keep at least one thread going with a focus on prepping and asset protection. F1 and mods could simply delete posts that cross the line. I know that my own posts have crossed this line many times and I would, in future, keep my posts serious and focused on what really matters.

[hawkeye]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

Binkerbear, I think that's a great idea. People will need advice.

I would propose that we could keep at least one thread going with a focus on prepping and asset protection. F1 and mods could simply delete posts that cross the line. I know that my own posts have crossed this line many times and I would, in future, keep my posts serious and focused on what really matters.

[Laidback Al]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

I am in on this as well. We need to continue the discussion about financial preps to help refine our own thinking as the situation changes and to provide up-to-date discussions for those just starting to plan for the financial impacts of a pandemic.

Since we don't have a pandemic at the moment, I don't see how anyone can be talking about or promoting "profiteering". We all want to minimize our losses and maximizes our gains in light of uncertain market conditions. It will only be after a pandemic has started that we can, retrospectively, apply the term "profiteering" to certain economic activities.

[sharon sanders]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

Financial Preparations is a great topic.

[muddy]

Re: Profiteering is off limits?

I do not recommend the metals. They are too volatile. This has been seen in recent months. For most people this kind of investment is too risky. Only invest in these if you have money "to burn".

Presumably the volatility is limited to Mercury. Of course, if you are looking for something to burn, maybe Magnesium or Sodium would be the metal of choice?