Discussion thread IV - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

[gsgs]

maybe animals (raccoon dogs? civets?) attracted by the smell visiting at night

[Emily]

The Seattle area doctor I mentioned in post #286 who calls this the” CCP virus” was on the radio again this weekend. He said that clinics here are using the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin/zinc treatment in early stage COVID patients. Based on the VA study they don’t feel it will work in critical patients. He also said health care providers here are using the hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic now. Of course he did NOT recommend anyone self-treat.
I forgot to mention that last week he said that the Wuhan Seafood Market was just that – seafood, fish, etc. The only exotics were animals like alligators. There were no bats or mammalian “intermediates” sold there. That’s one of the reasons he suspects a research accident led to the current pandemic.

[Treyfish]

DHS report: China hid virus’ severity to hoard supplies


By WILL WEISSERT
27 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. officials believe China covered up the extent of the coronavirus outbreak — and how contagious the disease is — to stock up on medical supplies needed to respond to it, intelligence documents show.

Chinese leaders “intentionally concealed the severity” of the pandemic from the world in early January, according to a four-page Department of Homeland Security intelligence report dated May 1 and obtained by The Associated Press. The revelation comes as the Trump administration has intensified its criticism of China, with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo saying Sunday that that country was responsible for the spread of disease and must be held accountable.
Not classified but marked “for official use only,” the analysis states that, while downplaying the severity of the coronavirus, China increased imports and decreased exports of medical supplies. It attempted to cover up doing so by “denying there were export restrictions and obfuscating and delaying provision of its trade data,” the analysis states.

The report also says China held off informing the World Health Organization that the coronavirus “was a contagion” for much of January so it could order medical supplies from abroad — and that its imports of face masks and surgical gowns and gloves increased sharply.
Those conclusions are based on the 95% probability that China’s changes in imports and export behavior were not within normal range, according to the report.....https://apnews.com/bf685dcf52125be54e030834ab7062a8

[sharon sanders]

groan...CDC forecast models... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...asting-us.html

[bertrand789]

compl?ment important, connu de ceux qui connaissent l'histoire des usages de ces v?g?taux, en bien des lieux, ceci :

Utilisez la rhubarbe crue (15-20 g plus 150 ml d'eau bouillie)

est, au niveau scientifique une honte. La question devient : quid de la d?nomination scientifique?

"Certaines esp?ces de rhubarbe ont une longue tradition d'utilisation comme plante m?dicinale. La rhubarbe chinoise ou rhubarbe m?dicinale ( Rheum officinale ) est utilis?e comme m?dicament en Chine depuis environ 4000 ans ."

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhabarber_(Gattung)

Elle est signal?e par Marco Polo dans le Devisement du monde⁶ (il est souvent mentionn? ? tort qu'il fut le premier occidental ? la voir, alors qu'il fut pr?c?d? par le franciscain Guillaume de Rubrouck, et le premier ? l'importer en Europe⁷, cet explorateur franciscain de langue flamande racontant aussi avoir vu un moine l'utiliser avec de l'eau b?nite⁶) et Odoric de Pordenone, elle fut d'abord cantonn?e parmi les plantes m?dicinales (constituant du catholicum simple de la pharmacop?e maritime occidentale au xviii^e si?cle⁸) et ornementales, elle ne fut cultiv?e et consomm?e comme plante potag?re qu'? partir du xviii^e si?cle⁹.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhubarbe

Je sais bien que, pour les m?decins, au moins beaucoup trop, la terre c'est sale, mais ce serait bien, que dans des publications au niveau de L'O.M.S , il y ait un comit? de lecture qui imposent, le respect minimal de tous les maillons de la chaine qualit?, en commen?ant par le respect des d?nominations ...

En tout cas, vu la comp?tence av?r?e de v?t?rinaires chinois, elles et ils, ne pourraient pas faire ce qui se doit ?

[bertrand789]

Des publications chinoises:

si j'ai pos? des questions avec courtoisie, il semble normal de v?rifier, ce qui a et est fait par les autorit?s scientifiques de ce pays. Il me semble que le lieu neutre de communication est ceci :
http://medjournals.cn/COVID-19/index...B4F158F45D1CEC
issu de ceci:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...irus-2019-ncov

on y trouve ce jour :

3.3.4 Protection de la fonction intestinale

Les pr?biotiques peuvent ?tre utilis?s pour am?liorer la micro?cologie intestinale des patients. Utilisez la rhubarbe crue (15-20 g plus 150 ml d'eau bouillie) ou la d?coction de Dachengqi par voie orale ou lavement.

http://rs.yiigle.com/yufabiao/1189815.htm

ce me semblerait bien que ces deux points soient ?clair?s :
- Utilisez la rhubarbe crue (15-20 g plus 150 ml d'eau bouillie)
- la d?coction de Dachengqi par voie orale ou lavement.

et que les pros , notamment europ?ens, de ce type de sujets, se mouillent un peu



la m?decine chinoise traditionnelle est abord?e:

3.6 Int?gration des traitements de m?decine traditionnelle chinoise et occidentale

La combinaison de la m?decine traditionnelle chinoise et occidentale dans le traitement de la nouvelle pneumonie ? coronavirus peut am?liorer l'effet synergique. Pour les patients adultes, le traitement par diff?renciation des syndromes avec la m?decine traditionnelle chinoise peut am?liorer la condition. Pour les patients l?gers, le syndrome du syndrome vent-chaleur sera trait? par l'addition et la soustraction de Yinqiaosan; les sympt?mes gastro-intestinaux sont les principaux sympt?mes, et le syndrome d'humidit? et d'humidit? sera trait? avec la d?coction Huopiaoxialing et la d?coction Sanren. Pour les patients ordinaires, ceux qui souffrent du syndrome de la chaleur et de la stagnation des poumons devraient recevoir la m?decine traditionnelle chinoise Maxingshigan Decoction; Pour ceux souffrant d'humidit?, de d?pression et de poumons, en donnant la m?decine chinoise Dayuanyin, Le d?sinfectant Ganlu et d'autres traitements peuvent contr?ler la progression de la maladie dans une certaine mesure et r?duire l'apparition de type ordinaire ? lourd; L'anxi?t? et l'insomnie, etc., compte tenu du traitement d'addition et de soustraction de la m?decine chinoise Xiaochaihu Tang, peuvent consid?rablement am?liorer les sympt?mes. Pour les patients s?v?res, si la fi?vre ne recule pas, m?me une fi?vre ?lev?e, une distension abdominale, une fermeture f?cale s?che, et ceux qui sont toxiques pour la chaleur et les poumons ferm?s, donnez la m?decine chinoise Dachengqi d?coction lavement pour soulager la chaleur et soulager la fi?vre ou r?duire la fi?vre. La d?coction de Baihu, la d?coction de Shengjiangsan et de Xuanbai Chengqi ont ?t? ajout?es ou supprim?es pour ?liminer la maladie et r?duire la fr?quence des maladies graves ? graves. Les enfants ordinaires souffrant d'humidit? et de chaleur et les poumons ferm?s re?oivent l'addition et la soustraction de Maxing Shigan Decoction et Sanren Decoction; ceux qui ont un grillage mod?r? et une chaleur humide accompagn?e de distension abdominale, de mousse, de vomissements graisseux, etc., ne peuvent pas ?tre ajout?s ou soustraits. Les patients s?v?res atteints d'une maladie pulmonaire ferm?e (actuellement rare dans le pays) peuvent se r?f?rer ? l'addition et ? la soustraction Xuanbai Chengqi Decoction et Ganlu Disinfectant Dan; si la chaleur toxique est vigoureuse, le qi intestinal n'est pas clair et la nourriture et les m?dicaments ne sont pas suffisants, un lavement de d?coction de rhubarbe d'urgence ? court terme. ne peut pas ?tre ajout? ou soustrait. Les patients s?v?res atteints d'une maladie pulmonaire ferm?e (actuellement rare dans le pays) peuvent se r?f?rer ? l'addition et ? la soustraction Xuanbai Chengqi Decoction et Ganlu Disinfectant Dan; si la chaleur toxique est vigoureuse, le qi intestinal n'est pas clair et la nourriture et les m?dicaments ne sont pas suffisants, un lavement de d?coction de rhubarbe d'urgence ? court terme. ne peut pas ?tre ajout? ou soustrait. Les patients s?v?res atteints d'une maladie pulmonaire ferm?e (actuellement rare dans le pays) peuvent se r?f?rer ? l'addition et ? la soustraction Xuanbai Chengqi Decoction et Ganlu Disinfectant Dan; si la chaleur toxique est vigoureuse, le qi intestinal n'est pas clair et la nourriture et les m?dicaments ne sont pas suffisants, un lavement de d?coction de rhubarbe d'urgence ? court terme.

Sharon, je souhaiterai , que ce message soit transf?r?, mais que cela soit ?clair? comme il se doit, car cela n'a jamais ?t? simple et ne le sera jamais d'user de produit qui n'ont pas le statut de m?dicament, qui seul , pour moi, ? ce stade, ? un b?n?fice risque cr?dible. Je souhaiterai , vu que ces th?rapeutiques sont ?voqu?es dans le cadre de l'O.M.S, une pr?sentation du su reconnu par les non chinois, donc au niveau de l'O.M.S, pour commencer...

[sharon sanders]

And again.....dismissed......this writer follows us and well....disappointing....will be interesting to see if they make an edit.

Like I said in another post, I am not taking this disrespect anymore.



Nsikan Akpan

@MoNscience
?
10h
In January, the WHO took 8 days after an initial meeting to declare a global health emergency. On Friday, I asked the director-general if the committee had any regrets over originally postponing: “The world had enough time to intervene.” -
@DrTedros

How to measure your nation’s response to coronavirus
National Geographic reviews the lessons learned from national responses to the COVID-19 pandemic.
nationalgeographic.com
3
15
31
FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
Replying to
@MoNscience
and
@DrTedros
Nice article but a small edit might be warranted. FluTrackers was the earliest public warning (in the context of your article). Check out the independent wayback machine internet archive to verify the exact timing. We are sure that you want to be accurate. https://web.archive.org/web/20200226094911/https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/china-2019-ncov/821830-china-original-2019-ncov-news-thread-weeks-1-4-december-30-2019-january-25-2020…
9:10 PM ? May 2, 2020?Twitter Web App

View Tweet activity
1
Like
FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
?
21m
Replying to
@FluTrackers
@MoNscience
and
@DrTedros
Our public warning dated December 30, 2019 at 11:35 pm ET. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/china-2019-ncov/821830-china-original-2019-ncov-news-thread-weeks-1-4-december-30-2019-january-25-2020



--------------------------------------------------------------------





National Geographic

@NatGeo
?
7h
Here's how to understand the key differences in countries' coronavirus responses. What worked? What didn't?

How to measure your nation’s response to coronavirus
National Geographic reviews the lessons learned from national responses to the COVID-19 pandemic.
nationalgeographic.com
14
200
532
FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
Replying to
@NatGeo
Nice article but a small edit might be warranted. FluTrackers was the earliest public warning (in the context of your article). Check out the independent wayback machine internet archive to verify the exact timing. We are sure that you want to be accurate. https://web.archive.org/web/20200226094911/https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/china-2019-ncov/821830-china-original-2019-ncov-news-thread-weeks-1-4-december-30-2019-january-25-2020…
9:25 PM ? May 2, 2020?Twitter Web App

View Tweet activity
1
Retweet
2
Likes
FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
?
24m
Replying to
@FluTrackers
and
@NatGeo
Our public warning dated December 30, 2019 at 11:35 pm ET. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/china-2019-ncov/821830-china-original-2019-ncov-news-thread-weeks-1-4-december-30-2019-january-25-2020

[Steffi]

Live map of COVID-19 evidence

We provide an overview of scientific publications on COVID-19 categorized and parsed into more specific subgroups, providing quick access to specific topic-relevant publications. As a result, the map also identifies research gaps, possibly guiding further research efforts.

We update the map weekly. As of 28 April 2020 the map contains 1,321 publications categorized by topic, population, and publication type. We have screened 10,785 references retrieved in our searches. The map includes all systematic reviews, RCT’s, non-randomized studies with control groups and method papers up to 23 April 2020. For all other study designs, the map is up to date until 8 April 2020.

https://www.fhi.no/en/qk/systematic-reviews-hta/map/

[sharon sanders]

Hi everyone!

Usually every year we go on our Summer schedule. Many of our participants get out of the house for good weather activities.

This is even more important this year. What many people don't know is that many of us have been glued to this site since December 30, 2019. I know some members who literally did not sleep for the first 2 weeks of the outbreak.

Mindful of physical distancing and other local restrictions many of our participants are going to try to get some exercise and take advantage of the weather.

We will continue to update the site as usual but we may not have the data as early as we normally due. I think it is very important for our members to reconnect, as best they can, with their "regular" life.

Thank you for following us!

[gsgs]

In the Netherlands volunteers are making masks from cloth, normally used to make vacuum cleaner bags. The use the cloth double or triple, don't remember exactly. Was tested a the Technical University in Delft.

can you take these normal hepa-filters ? like these : https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-St%C3%BC...72.m2749.l2649

as replacable filters for respirators with suitable openings (styropor,adhesive tape,) or normal
masks with cutouts

[JJackson]

Flatlander

Tetano's Nature link should sort out the first part of your question. Like you I hoped we may have been seeing large scale population based age stratified results by now.

" I have seen is the start of the solidarity study, which to me seemed like a do over rather than an extension of what the scientists of the world had already helped start in China."
I think this may be a miss-understanding of the role of these trials which I think are the most important trials underway.
The WHO trials are very large scale, multi-national, multi-center, standardised protocol trials.
The scale matters because all of these drugs are already being used on a compassionate basis and if they had any profound effect that would have been obvious and widely reported. None did so we are looking for any statistically significance benefit, or adverse side effects. Significance comes from the size of the cohort.
The multi-national aspect matters because of the genetic diversity in different population and local disease prevalence. Having malaria, HIV or anything else common in your area could cause a different disease cause and anti-body response. Racial group genotypes also may matter for instance lactose intolerance in Europe (where drinking cows milk has been common for centuries) is low compared to areas where it is a new phenomenon, dark skin outside the tropics may reduce vitamin D levels etc etc.
Multi-center matters as it helps iron out the slight differences between sites which could be as simple as nurse patient ratio, ambient temperatures or air pollution levels.
The standard protocols is probably the most important feature. While all the other trials may be very well run they do not all follow exactly the same protocols so you can not directly compare their results. An example if Site A, B and C are all running trials on Remdesivir and A gives it at one dose early in disease progression, B at a different dose and to old high risk age groups and C to a mixed age cohort excluding any kind of co-morbidity and the results are conflicting what can you recommend for future treatments.

[bertrand789]

Merci, pour lui, c'est un tr?s grand. Cette vid?o m'a ?t? transmise, par un autre, tr?s grand, qui a fait la maladie. Nous sommes ? un moment rare, et m?me tr?s rare, car ce qui est important et vrai, est accessible. Vu la masse de liens disponible il faut uniquement savoir faire le tri et en ce lieu , il y a une sacr?e collections de vraies expertes...

[Emily]

My condolences to all who mourn Georgette. The tribute song lyrics seem to have been written just for these times.

https://genius.com/Coldplay-the-scientist-lyrics

"I was just guessing at numbers and figures
Pulling the puzzles apart
Questions of science, science and progress
Do not speak as loud as my heart"

[Emily]

Though I can't translate the audio, from translating some comments it looks very interesting:

"Thank you for this "breathing", this break full of intelligence and this necessary perspective that you offer us in the face of a spiral of anxiety and manipulated depression"

[bertrand789]

de l'anatomie du d?sastre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MqArCjrkmI