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H7N9 discussion thread: January 24, 2014 to Feb 5 2014 (closed)

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  • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

    The high number of H7N9 cases is a worrying signal but the world has decided to take the risk well ahead when the H5N1 was downgraded.

    The Canadian nurse Death is only a reminder.

    Mainstream media, journalists & flublogia should answer a certain number of questions:

    1) Why does H5N1 suffer a such dramatic change in human epidemiology? Since a couple of years ago, dozens of confirmed & suspected cases were spotted in several countries, like Egypt and Indonesia; now, only very few of these cases are being reported;

    2) How does H5N1 manage this sudden change in its zoonotic behaviour, causing little damage to poultry in endemic regions?

    3) What kind of improvement in poultry farming has been achieved in disadvantaged countries like Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Indonesia and Egypt in order to avoid explosive animal outbreaks?

    4) H7N9 caused so far at least 300 recognized human cases, but H5N1 may have caused also a lot of cases, although not in cluster or in community h2h transmission in the region where it is supposed to be endemic; is it possible for Nepal to have had hundreds of poultry outbreaks and not a single human case? The same thing is true for India & Bangladesh. What is the host determinant that make humans 'immune' to H5N1 in some regions?

    5) A such dramatic change in zoonotic and epidemiological behaviour should be carefully investigated. It is important to understand the hidden mechanism of this switch from a universal scourge to a little bug of no importance.

    6) H1N1pdm09 remained in swine population for decades before to start to rapidly change its genetic constellation until it reached the match an efficient for human spread. H5N1 - now fallen into oblivion - is doing the same: lurking and changing silently in animals and possibly human.

    7) Is it safe to take as true the statements from endemic countries that no further human cases are being detected?

    8) Are flublogia doing right to take this lull (?) in cases' detection as a sign that H5N1 was indeed a hype?

    I want to make clear that I am not dismissing the H7N9 risk but H5N1 out there and wild suggest me an uneasy comfort...

    Comment


    • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

      Thank for not having answered to my (sarcastic) questions!

      Comment


      • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

        Scientific debate is crucial to science. Civil discourse is crucial to keeping our citizens informed. We are at at a crossroads. It is very likely humanity will in the future move into a pandemic phase. We have novel flu strains popping up all over the place. Some of them are closing in on us. As most of us do not have a background in gene sequencing we are dependent on the few of us who do understand that very narrow field. However, many of us are scientists or, well informed laypersons. Regardless, ALL of us here at FT are dedicated to furthering information about emerging disease especially the flu to anyone and everyone. We have thousands of dedicated followers. Many visit every day. They come from all walks of life, from doctors, to government insiders, to housewives. They come from Azerbaijan to the Vatican. They depend on our staying up to date about disease developments. Many also expect our prognosticating to some degree about future developments. We can't do that if we are not willing to be a little more polite to one another. If things get worse, as I personally believe they might, then working together is critical. Questioning is going to be part of the process. Questioning is expected in every field of science. None of us has the whole picture. For that reason, we expect that each person who regularly posts at FT will help to inform others who do not understand. Therefore, it is imperative we remain civil and as helpful as we possibly can. Please take a deep breath and remember who we are posting for, why we are posting in the first place, and why this matters personally to you. You wouldn't be posting here at all, if you didn't want to keep others informed.
        Please do not ask me for medical advice, I am not a medical doctor.

        Avatar is a painting by Alan Pollack, titled, "Plague". I'm sure it was an accident that the plague girl happened to look almost like my twin.
        Thank you,
        Shannon Bennett

        Comment


        • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

          1) Why does H5N1 suffer a such dramatic change in human epidemiology? Since a couple of years ago, dozens of confirmed & suspected cases were spotted in several countries, like Egypt and Indonesia; now, only very few of these cases are being reported;

          ## I think it evolves in poultry only now, too special for the ducks

          2) How does H5N1 manage this sudden change in its zoonotic behaviour, causing little damage to poultry in endemic regions?

          ## increasing immunity ?

          3) What kind of improvement in poultry farming has been achieved in disadvantaged countries like Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Indonesia and Egypt in order to avoid explosive animal outbreaks?

          4) H7N9 caused so far at least 300 recognized human cases, but H5N1 may have caused also a lot of cases, although not in cluster or in community h2h transmission in the region where it is supposed to be endemic; is it possible for Nepal to have had hundreds of poultry outbreaks and not a single human case? The same thing is true for India & Bangladesh. What is the host determinant that make humans 'immune' to H5N1 in some regions?

          ## behaviour, customs

          5) A such dramatic change in zoonotic and epidemiological behaviour should be carefully investigated. It is important to understand the hidden mechanism of this switch from a universal scourge to a little bug of no importance.

          6) H1N1pdm09 remained in swine population for decades before to start to rapidly change its genetic constellation until it reached the match an efficient for human spread. H5N1 - now fallen into oblivion - is doing the same: lurking and changing silently in animals and possibly human.

          ## swine are more human than chickens

          7) Is it safe to take as true the statements from endemic countries that no further human cases are being detected?

          ## 80%

          8) Are flublogia doing right to take this lull (?) in cases' detection as a sign that H5N1 was indeed a hype?

          ## not a hype, we couldn't have known. With the decreasing dynamics of spread the perceived danger decreased

          I want to make clear that I am not dismissing the H7N9 risk but H5N1 out there and wild suggest me an uneasy comfort...[/QUOTE]

          ## IMO more dangerous are humans because of research and reverse genetics
          I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
          my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

          Comment


          • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

            Thank GSGS.

            I remain skeptical about the complete disappearance of H5N1 from human in Egypt, Indonesia and the never detected cases in India, Nepal...

            Comment


            • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

              25C yesterday in Shanghai !
              I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
              my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

              Comment


              • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

                Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                25C yesterday in Shanghai !
                How is this temperature relevant to the discussion?
                The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                Comment


                • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

                  temperature is down again, higher temp. and humidity may slow down
                  the outbreak, we saw that with H7N9 in 2013 and with other flu
                  (or/and is was from closing the life markets, this is debated)

                  however, it restarted in Dec.,Jan. with colder temps
                  (or/and because of increased trade due to NewYear celebrations)

                  last 7 days:
                  Shanghai,max.temp.:14-18-20-25-11-09-05 C
                  Shanghai,rel.humidity:84-86-78-68-95-78-55 %
                  Hongkong,max.temp.::24-23-25-24-25-26-21 C
                  Hongkong,rel.humidity:54-64-62-76-71-63-73 %


                  while the total number of cases is stable - no longer increasing -
                  cases in the South in Guangdong are increasing



                  Guangdong has a different virus, reassorted with GD-H9N2, see: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=29
                  I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                  my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                  Comment


                  • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: recent increase in cases, January 24, 2014+

                    Thanks for further explaining your temperature post.

                    I asked you in an email about your comment that Guangdong has a different virus; you gave permission for me to share your following reply (could you explain the "2 years 2 directions" thing):

                    "sequences were published the last days, see my H7H9-thread

                    it reassorted with HK-like H9N2, only 3 segments are our old H7N9

                    HK-H9N2 is quite different from Shanghai

                    segment 3:
                    204 44 2151 9456 >KF260367,A/chicken/Hong Kong/FY64W/2010,2010//,Hong Kong,H9N2
                    44 differences, with 5-6 per year , 4 years 1 direction , 2 years 2 directions ---> common ancestor in 2008

                    maybe better adapted to HK-climate

                    showing that H7N9 is capable to reassort with similar strains
                    so far it just occasionally grasped one new segment, now 4-5 new segments"
                    The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                    Comment


                    • Re: H7N9 discussion thread: January 24, 2014 to Feb 5 2014 (closed)

                      With a new flu season imminent I am closing off this thread and starting a new one.

                      The new thread can be found here
                      H7N9 Discussion - from September 2014 on

                      and the original thread for the first H7N9 season can be here
                      H7N9 – Discussion, April 1, 2013 to June 3, 2013 (Closed)
                      Last edited by JJackson; May 25, 2017, 04:44 PM.

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