T-shirt mask could help in flu pandemic

[Wolf]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

Once again, agreed, wetDirt. Better than nothing. I doubt there will be much 'overconfidence' anywhere should H5N1 go global.
I must admit that on the boards I visit (perhaps I don't get around enough?) there is a complete lack of understanding of those of minimal means. It's like we're invisible. Ir's taken me months to put together the barest necessities, while the discussions tend towards the elaborate - almost status symbol - preps. Very discouraging. Have mentioned this elsewhere today, so may just be having a bad day. T-shirt masks seem a worthy alternative to nothing at all.

[sharon sanders]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

A T-shirt mask is better than nothing at all.

[wetDirt]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

Wet,

The weave in the fabric is too big -- even at eight layers.

Are you prepared to stake your life on it's effectiveness? I certainly would not!

How do you know? Have you measured it? Have you even tried it? It's easy to say the weave is too big, but what about the numbers these people measured? Measurements speak louder than words.

As to whether I would trust my life with it, I have bought 8 yards of heavyweight white t-shirt fabric and several containers of gentian violet, and I can sew. I also have been fit tested, and I both wear a respirator professionally, and know what a well-fitting one feels like. And I know for sure our agency is not stocked with enough cartridges to last the department a month. And also I have a brother in the National Guard, who expects to be mobilized, and does not expect to have any equipment at all issued to him. He, too, knows what he is doing. I will find out next month whether I would be mobilized.

[Siam]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

IMHO it might offer some protection, however in Canada we are being told that masks will not help.

I wonder if in the uneducated hands, we would just be infecting ourselves taking off the mask or the respirators?

Or if because we wore one of these T-shirt masks we would feel more protected that we actually would be and as a result be more inclined to put ourselves in a riskier position.?

[wetDirt]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

IMHO it might offer some protection, however in Canada we are being told that masks will not help.

I wonder if in the uneducated hands, we would just be infecting ourselves taking off the mask or the respirators?

Or if because we wore one of these T-shirt masks we would feel more protected that we actually would be and as a result be more inclined to put ourselves in a riskier position.?

I was at the doctor's last week, and the dr. was 45 minutes late. The nurse said he rode a bicycle to work. We got to talking about respirators. I asked him how far he rode, and if he wore a mask in heavy traffic. He showed me his mask, a British, locally expensive, loop-over the ear style. I asked him if it leaked beneath the eyes, and he said it did, and that it was really hot to wear. I asked him whether he thought the air leaks meant it wasn't working very well, and he admitted it didn't sound like it. Looks to me that probably few who don't deal with respirators on a daily basis know enough to wear them correctly.

[kr105]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

How do you know? Have you measured it? Have you even tried it? It's easy to say the weave is too big, but what about the numbers these people measured? Measurements speak louder than words.

As to whether I would trust my life with it, I have bought 8 yards of heavyweight white t-shirt fabric and several containers of gentian violet, and I can sew. I also have been fit tested, and I both wear a respirator professionally, and know what a well-fitting one feels like. And I know for sure our agency is not stocked with enough cartridges to last the department a month. And also I have a brother in the National Guard, who expects to be mobilized, and does not expect to have any equipment at all issued to him. He, too, knows what he is doing. I will find out next month whether I would be mobilized.

In response, we know that the influenza a virus measures on the electron microscope between 80 and 120nm (nanometer) which is one millionth of a meter. This is a well documented fact and can be verified in any good virology textbook.

The homemade mask idea is based on a study done by Dr. Ariaki Nagayama out of Fukuoka University in Japan, in 2005. He submitted his study for peer review in November 2005 and it was published in the Journal of Infection and Chemotherapy in April, 2006. This Journal is the house publication of the Japanese Chemotherapy Organization. An abstract of this is on pubmed. Unfortunately the study itself will not be available on pubmed until January 2007. (They usually wait until the end of the year and then get in the entire volume and have it translated.) Two subscription services are offering it now for a fee (about $30) if you want to read it.

In the abstract, he writes: "Time-kill studies were carried out, and the virus titer was determined based on the 50% tissue culture infective dose (TCID50)" (Note that he does not give you the actual hard numbers of the results.) He further states: "The minimum inhibitory concentrations (MICs) of GV against bacteria were also determined, and the killing activities of the GV-dyed cloth were judged from viable cell counts. (But he doesn't give us cell counts or how many virus particles made it through the weave of the fabric.)

You mentioned that you purchased several yards of fabric. That had to have run at least $7. For that same amount of money, you could have purchased an N100 respirator which we know is 97% effective against viruses of this size. (Reference Canadian study of N95 vs N100 masks against virus particles).

The army is very concerned about this problem and is issuing N95 respirators (NOT masks) to staff. They are also issuing masks to all patients at the check in desks who display respiratory symptoms. They have changed over from Latex gloves to Nitrile for better protection. You mention that you are expecting to be mobilized, are you and your brother in healthcare?

K.

[wetDirt]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

In the abstract, he writes: "Time-kill studies were carried out, and the virus titer was determined based on the 50% tissue culture infective dose (TCID50)" (Note that he does not give you the actual hard numbers of the results.) He further states: "The minimum inhibitory concentrations (MICs) of GV against bacteria were also determined, and the killing activities of the GV-dyed cloth were judged from viable cell counts. (But he doesn't give us cell counts or how many virus particles made it through the weave of the fabric.)

Perhaps he didn't measure breakthrough, only surface activity on the cloth itself.

You mentioned that you purchased several yards of fabric. That had to have run at least $7. For that same amount of money, you could have purchased an N100 respirator which we know is 97% effective against viruses of this size. (Reference Canadian study of N95 vs N100 masks against virus particles).

You are correct, one disposable N95 mask, good for a few hours. From the cloth, I could get several reusable masks that would be the equivalent of 50 N95 masks.

The army is very concerned about this problem and is issuing N95 respirators (NOT masks) to staff. They are also issuing masks to all patients at the check in desks who display respiratory symptoms. They have changed over from Latex gloves to Nitrile for better protection. You mention that you are expecting to be mobilized, are you and your brother in healthcare?

K.

You are correct, they are issuing masks to medical staff. My brother, as I said, is in the National Guard, and expects to be mobilized to replace police/highway patrol etc. They are providing no masks to those who will be out meeting the general public. No meds, no masks, nothing.
I am not in healthcare. But if mobilized, I would be involved in safely shutting down manufacturing plants/refineries/etc that use toxic chemicals, or responding to spills, leaks, etc. I would need the big respirator for working around hazardous materials. But I don't plan to wear it to buy gas, assuming gas can be bought during a pandemic emergency. While I agree that medical staff need a higher level of protection, I also recognize that public safety people need something too, and will need it day in, day out. And the little over-the-ear thingies don't impress me.

[kr105]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

A T-shirt mask is better than nothing at all.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one!

My concern is that a person may gain a false sense of security wearing a home-made mask. This in turn might alter their decision making process and result in their going into an area (which they would have avoided if unprotected) and being exposed.

K.

[kr105]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

Wet,

Check Library dust's online website. They offer the 3M 8233 N100 respirators at a good price (cheapest I've found so far.)

K.

[kr105]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

I must admit that on the boards I visit (perhaps I don't get around enough?) there is a complete lack of understanding of those of minimal means. It's like we're invisible. Ir's taken me months to put together the barest necessities, while the discussions tend towards the elaborate - almost status symbol - preps.

It may be all about choices we make with disposable income. I work with a nurse who makes a good salary and is always crying poverty. Yet she always goes out to lunch with the girls, often brings in Starbucks in the morning and smokes like a banshee.

My prep money came from not going on vacation this year, bringing my lunch to work every day and bringing my soda to work every day too. We don't go to the movies anymore and instead go to free events (like fireworks and street fairs), bringing out lunch and snacks. This is the choice that was right for us.

Because of these economies, we have saved up for the "status symbol" preps that will make our lives more comfortable. Our city went under water this past month (flooding after heavy rains and dams cracked/overflowed.) We were comfortable. We had a/c, electricity and hot meals.

We are not wealthy by any means. But we are comfortable and "middle class". I grew up in an area that was the poster-child for urban blight. I studied and worked hard to get thru school and have the student loans to prove it. It was not always fun being ridiculed by the "Cool Kids" for studying and getting good grades (these were usually the kids who wanted to copy my homework later on.) No, I did not go party every weekend - I had too much homework to do. I REFUSE TO APOLOGISE TO ANYONE FOR WORKING HARD AND GETTING AHEAD. If because of my choices and decisions we are comfortable - we've earned it the hard way.

[sharon sanders]

Re: This is popping up all over the internet

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one!

My concern is that a person may gain a false sense of security wearing a home-made mask. This in turn might alter their decision making process and result in their going into an area (which they would have avoided if unprotected) and being exposed.

K.

My concern is that there are only so many N95 and N100 in the world. In a pandemic that lasts 18 months, the world's supply of masks may be exhausted. There needs to be alternatives. They are not preferred, but they may reduce viral load, and hence, help reduce morbidity and mortality.

[Laidback Al]

Re: Masks

I think everyone is agreed that masks need to be an important part of one's prep kit for an H5N1 pandemic. But, which masks or respirators?

Within one's monetary and fiscal constraints, commercially manufactured masks should be the first choice. Commercially manufactured N95 and N100 masks and respirators, fitted and used properly, will undoubtedly be more effective than any homemade t-shirt masks.

But, what happens when there are not enough commercially produced masks and respirators to go around when a pandemic strikes? T-shirts or cotton cloth masks may be the best that will be available.

At least two months ago, I was in an industrial supply store and they informed me that all 3M N95 disposable masks in the warehouse were sold out and they would not have them in stock before the end of the year.

In mid August I posted an article that indicated that the US as a whole will not have a big enough stock pile of masks if a pandemic arrives.
(see http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9365) Based on the statistic presented in the article, by the end of 2007, the US will only have stockpiled 100 million masks. That would be enough for 40 mask changes for each nurse in the US. (Health Care Workers, how many day's supply is that? 4-5?) What about doctors, coughing patients, etc.? If this article is correct we will run out of commercial, disposable masks in short order.

So, if you are serious about prepping, the time to buy commercial masks and respirators is NOW, not when the MSM proclaims a pandemic. By then it will be too late and your only options will be T-shirts, cotton cloth, diapers, or whatever.

[kr105]

Re: What to do about Masks?

I've stocked in a fair number of masks -- making a wholesale purchase to reduce the cost. Even with that I know that my personal supply will not last past the first wave.

My "game plan" so to speak is to mark the date each mask was used and put each one back in their plastic bag. Then back in it's carton. I will reuse the masks in rotation when I run out of fresh ones.

There is only so long it (the virus) can last without an appropriate environment. About a year ago I read a paper that stated it could survive 2 days without a host.

There is a study on pubmed (Journal of Infectious Diseases, July 1982) where they actually studied the survival rate of influenza a and b viruses on a variety of surfaces. " Both influenza A and B viruses survived for 24-48 hr on hard, nonporous surfaces such as stainless steel and plastic but survived for less than 8-12 hr on cloth, paper, and tissues. "

Since H5N1 is an influenza a virus, keeping masks in storage for a month should render them reusable in an emergency. I also have a germicidal light to use for additional disinfection. Given the choice of t-shirt masks or reusing N100 -- I'll try the reuse method.

[prepdeb]

Re: What to do about Masks?

Excellent idea KR. I will do the same with our N95 masks.

I also picked up some of the washable masks I mentioned in another thread, but since my husband plans to continue working, he will need a steady supply.

I work from home so I'll have far less need for masks.

[Christian Rivers]

Re: What to do about Masks?

Some more work is needed to model the ramifications of stockpiling masks and other health supplies. I did a cursory serach on the topic on PubMed and Google and in terms of models, stockpiling almost exclusively refers to antiviral drugs or vaccines.

We all agree that a tropical storm or hurricane as a disaster is less severe than a pandemic. Now look at South Florida and gasoline today. They are already running out at gas stations because the reservoir in the gas stations is less than the cumulative reservoir capacity of the majority of households.
Last year's Gulf Coast rescue and recovery efforts were hampered by the civilian draw down on gasoline.

So now consider, if a sizable segment of the population purchases masks ahead of production capacity. Hospitals, clinics and special needs shelters will run out of supplies for health care workers in a matter of weeks.
Will the health care workers die off due to heavy exposure and lack of supplies? Is the casual use of N95 masks justified relative to the needs of acute care hospitals? What about workers who cannot engage in social distancing such as nursing homes and prisons? What happens later to the survivors of the pandemic but the inhabitants of a society without health care workers? I am sure other examples abound.

Even if stockpiling is practical, we have to consider the ethical practices when the time comes. At the very least, most people would have to consider
bartering to find the most useful mix of supplies.
C R