How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

[gsgs]

1108
according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_outbreak_by_country

 

[HenryN]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Hello,

The Who Health Organization is reporting the pandemic strain of H1N1 has killed 800 to date, is that an accurate number?

Tom

Closer to 1300

source; Rhiza

 

[Chuck]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Hello,

The Who Health Organization is reporting the pandemic strain of H1N1 has killed 800 to date, is that an accurate number?

Tom

On account of time delays at each level of reporting from the local up to the national, they are typically a couple of weeks behind.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Flutrackers is not associated with the FluTracker Rhiza project.

Their numbers are not verified by FluTrackers.com.

They are promoting sales for their mapping product. On the top of their page: "If you would like more information about how your company, organization, or agency can provide dynamic data visualization and analysis tools like this, please contact....".

We are a non-profit charity.

 

[Rwilmer]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Flutrackers is not associated with the FluTracker Rhiza project.

Their numbers are not verified by FluTrackers.com.

They are promoting sales for their mapping product. On the top of their page: "If you would like more information about how your company, organization, or agency can provide dynamic data visualization and analysis tools like this, please contact....".

We are a non-profit charity.

Yes, Florida1, Non-Profit organizations are really great. It I donate is it tax deductable?

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Yes, for people who file U.S. income tax returns. However, please contact your tax advisor for your particular situation.

 

[Rwilmer]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Thank You, Florida1!

 

[Hogweed]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Flutrackers is not associated with the FluTracker Rhiza project.

Their numbers are not verified by FluTrackers.com.

They are promoting sales for their mapping product. On the top of their page: "If you would like more information about how your company, organization, or agency can provide dynamic data visualization and analysis tools like this, please contact....".

We are a non-profit charity.

Whatever you say but it still seemed an informative post to me. Why such a strong response?

 

[Laidback Al]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida1
Flutrackers is not associated with the FluTracker Rhiza project.

Their numbers are not verified by FluTrackers.com.

They are promoting sales for their mapping product. On the top of their page: "If you would like more information about how your company, organization, or agency can provide dynamic data visualization and analysis tools like this, please contact....".

We are a non-profit charity.

Whatever you say but it still seemed an informative post to me. Why such a strong response?

FluTrackers.com was established in 2006 as a non-profit charity. Since that time, FluTrackers.com has become a well respected worldwide disease tracking forum. All of it thanks to the volunteer efforts by members and posters who have helped build the forum to what it is today.
<o> </o>
On the other hand, I believe Rhiza Labs co-opted the label FluTracker in early 2009 to present geographic information about influenza cases that were being tracked by Henry Niman (Niman here at FluTrackers). While information posted at the Rhiza Labs is publicly available under a Creative Commons License, Rhiza Labs is not a charity but a for-profit company. One can only conclude that Rhiza Labs chose the “FluTracker” label to capitalized on the corporate goodwill that FluTrackers.com has built up over the years.

 

[Laidback Al]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

. . . One can only conclude that Rhiza Labs chose the “Flutracker” label to capitalized on the corporate goodwill that FluTrackers.com has built up over the years.

Others, of course, may conclude differently. To help you decide for yourself, here are some quotes from the the Rhiza Lab blog.

Swine Flu Spreads, FluTracker Responds | FluTracker Update, Vol. 1
by Andrew Macurak on July 24, 2009
It’s been a busy month for the FluTracker team. We’ve been sharing our work at conferences, spreading the word in major media, helping Fortune 100 and Federal agencies with preparedness planning, and continuing to track an emerging threat. . . .

More Organizations Using FluTracker
As H1N1 spreads, more companies turn to FluTracker to support corporate preparedness and continuity planning. FluTracker helps AT&T to protect its personnel, Walgreen’s to stock flu remedies, and the U.S. Army to identify recruits in danger of infection.

Learn More
Call us at 412-488-0600 or email to learn more about how you can prepare, plan, and protect your assets with FluTracker.

 

[KC]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

Laidback Al,

It is pretty common for "for profit" companies to jump on the success of well producing 501(c)3 non profit groups such as Flutrackers.com and mimic them for their "for profit" means.

What is sad is it is totally unethical for Rhiza Labs to confuse potential customers of their product with statements such as the ones you linked to. Rhiza Labs should clearly identify they are not directly associated with, nor endorsed by Flutrackers.com . Do they teach ethics classes anymore in college?

As a registered 501(c)3 with the US federal govt. since 2006, the name "Flutrackers" has been conditionally registered (means readily recognized without trademark or copyright) as being associated with Flutrackers.com .

It is sad. Violations such as this can easily be fought in the Courts, but the non-profits rarely have the funding or staff to challenge poor "big business" ethics who pray on the non-profits. Intentional acts (commissions), unintentional acts (omissions), or outright fraud and deception could be grounds for civil or criminal violation of statutes and laws.

I'm with Florida1. If Rhiza Labs is going to profit from the work of Flutrackers.com and the many volunteers, they need to be donating a specific amount of their profits to Flutrackers.com or signing an agreement for licensing.

Why couldn't they come up with "Flufollowers", "FluMap", "FluData", etc.

Off my soap box.

 

[gsgs]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

> donating a specific amount of their profits to Flutrackers.com

that would make flutrackers.com a profit oriented company

was that the background for the recent thread about mispresenting FT ?

Rhizalab wasn't mentioned in that thread. secrecy,secrecy

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

> donating a specific amount of their profits to Flutrackers.com

that would make flutrackers.com a profit oriented company...........

NO - profitable enterprises donate to non-profits all the time.

.

 

[KC]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

gsgs,

As someone who is involved in the support of many non-profit 501(c)3 groups, let me be the first to tell you: You are wrong. I don't post much, but I will defend my thoughts and membership in this community.

No back room discussions going on; No black helicopters flying around; and no shady deals happening.

If you think Flutrackers.com is a profit oriented group, look again. Looks like a bunch of volunteers contributing, and a group that wants to make sure Flutrackers.com continues and helps our communities. Thank you for your 6000 + posts.

Non-profit groups need funding.... simple truth... real world... to provide services and information sharing, as well as research and collaboration. Non-profit groups often rely upon corporate and government funding sources to survive and provide their valuable services, especially when private contributions are minimal or non-existent... but the service is maxed out to capacity performing need.

When "for profit" groups challenge and attempt to undermine the success of "non-profits" and capitalize on their successes and model.... there is a problem.

It isn't "secrecy,secrecy" as you claim.... It is situational awareness of the issues, risks, and hazards, and a focus on the end state...... not jaded by personal biases :smartass:

gsgs, you'll probably understand this.... maybe not (not sure I do). A virus doesn't seek to kill it's host, but rather replicates and reproduces successfully in an attempt of longevity. A virus doesn't have a brain and makes mistakes through re-assortment and recombination.... on the other hand a common leech (with a simple brain) knows enough to realize it needs the host for survival... and can manipulate and use the host in ways to insure survival while ensuring the host is healthy.

That paragraph (above) probably came out wrong... my bad.... . Probably made me sound like the leech... Oh well, been called that before I've donated, volunteered, and have no financial interest in any way in the success of Flutrackers.com.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

was that the background for the recent thread about mispresenting FT ?

Rhizalab wasn't mentioned in that thread. secrecy,secrecy

That post was about someone who sent out a press release with the appearance that it was endorsed by FT when it was not.

Many are trying to capitalize on our name and reputation.

 

[HenryN]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

FluTrackers.com was established in 2006 as a non-profit charity. Since that time, FluTrackers.com has become a well respected worldwide disease tracking forum. All of it thanks to the volunteer efforts by members and posters who have helped build the forum to what it is today.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>
On the other hand, I believe Rhiza Labs co-opted the label FluTracker in early 2009 to present geographic information about influenza cases that were being tracked by Henry Niman (Niman here at FluTrackers). While information posted at the Rhiza Labs is publicly available under a Creative Commons License, Rhiza Labs is not a charity but a for-profit company. One can only conclude that Rhiza Labs chose the “FluTracker” label to capitalized on the corporate goodwill that FluTrackers.com has built up over the years.

Please. Google also has a "flutracker".

 

[HenryN]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

FluTrackers.com was established in 2006 as a non-profit charity. Since that time, FluTrackers.com has become a well respected worldwide disease tracking forum. All of it thanks to the volunteer efforts by members and posters who have helped build the forum to what it is today.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>
On the other hand, I believe Rhiza Labs co-opted the label FluTracker in early 2009 to present geographic information about influenza cases that were being tracked by Henry Niman (Niman here at FluTrackers). While information posted at the Rhiza Labs is publicly available under a Creative Commons License, Rhiza Labs is not a charity but a for-profit company. One can only conclude that Rhiza Labs chose the ?FluTracker? label to capitalized on the corporate goodwill that FluTrackers.com has built up over the years.

Here is the Roche "flu tracker" (no "s" required)

http://www.tamiflu.com/about/flutracker.aspx

 

[HenryN]

Re: Real Statastics?

Re: Real Statastics?

FluTrackers.com was established in 2006 as a non-profit charity. Since that time, FluTrackers.com has become a well respected worldwide disease tracking forum. All of it thanks to the volunteer efforts by members and posters who have helped build the forum to what it is today.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o></o>
On the other hand, I believe Rhiza Labs co-opted the label FluTracker in early 2009 to present geographic information about influenza cases that were being tracked by Henry Niman (Niman here at FluTrackers). While information posted at the Rhiza Labs is publicly available under a Creative Commons License, Rhiza Labs is not a charity but a for-profit company. One can only conclude that Rhiza Labs chose the ?FluTracker? label to capitalized on the corporate goodwill that FluTrackers.com has built up over the years.

Comments on the google "flu tracker" (flu trends)

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE53S87S20090429

 

[HenryN]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

Hello,

I ask about true numbers, or de-lagged numbers because I tend to read all types of data and articles on influenza.

Some fear the strain, others report it is a pandemic dud.

This recent article claims "dud" but the data presented it very inaccurate, and tied to a health minister, which means politician, which means truth is a slippery thing;

http://www.thestar.com/article/671620

They state "He's calling the swine flu H1N1 virus that has been making its way around the globe since April – killing more than 700 on its journey – a "pandemic dud." .

They also state; "Historically, viruses starts to dissipate in a second surge because a lot of people get immunity from the first.".

That statement irritated me so much I sent the "repeater" (not a reporter) this graph on the 1918 pandemic;

Since H1N1 is following the path of the 1918 strain, and labs link the two strains, I found the article very incorrect and misleading.

Note the small initial surge in late june then a huge surge in October of 1918. The second wave made the first look insignificant.

So I wonder about the true attack rate, and true death rate. I am seeing predicted attack rates as high as 40% and death rates ranging from 10-25 per 1,000 infected.

I just wanted to know what his community of people thought.

Tom

The numbers at Rhiza are largely based on agency reports and supplemented by media reports (all with verifiable links). The number of deaths and cases are significantly higher than agency reports, which frequently lag reports by local agencies and do not include media reports. All of these numbers are significant undercounts becasue of false negatives and a sharp decline in the testing of mild cases in the US and worldwide.

Right now the 2009 pandemic is tracking with 1918. Both pandemics involved a swine flu adapting to a human population.
The 2009 virus has dramatically increased its geographical reach in the past several months.

Not many are discussing the "doomsday model", which would produce massive causualties due to a cytokine storm primed by the milder strain currently curculating.

 

[hawkeye]

Re: How accurate are the WHO statistics on H1N1 deaths?

But are we even close to 1 death per 1000 yet?

The numbers at Rhiza are largely based on agency reports and supplemented by media reports (all with verifiable links). The number of deaths and cases are significantly higher than agency reports, which frequently lag reports by local agencies and do not include media reports. All of these numbers are significant undercounts becasue of false negatives and a sharp decline in the testing of mild cases in the US and worldwide.

Right now the 2009 pandemic is tracking with 1918. Both pandemics involved a swine flu adapting to a human population.
The 2009 virus has dramatically increased its geographical reach in the past several months.

Not many are discussing the "doomsday model", which would produce massive causualties due to a cytokine storm primed by the milder strain currently curculating.