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FluTrackers Confirmed U.S. Deaths - June 5 - June 26, 2009

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

MedTroll said:
On my list, I am going to list the deaths of the 59 year old and the 83 year old in El Paso County as numbers 14 and 15 for Texas.

I am just not sure whether to list them as probably or confirmed. Thoughts?

[/INDENT]
Click to expand...

I have done the same with my list. I have a total of 15 for Texas.
Since both deaths were described as patients presenting with flu-like symptoms, it is reasonable to presume it predominated their clinical course, ie they died as a result of H1N1, at least as I see it.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

cutter said:
I have done the same with my list. I have a total of 15 for Texas.
Since both deaths were described as patients presenting with flu-like symptoms, it is reasonable to presume it predominated their clinical course, ie they died as a result of H1N1, at least as I see it.
Click to expand...

So you are listing them as "confirmed" rather than "probable" I take it. That was where I was leaning as well.

Thanks Cutter
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

appleblossom,
despite the intermittent confusion, I REALLY appreciate all of your hard work!
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

medtroll,
yes, both are 'confirmed' or 'definite' in my mind.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

More info for El Paso County. This lists all five reported deaths in the county and gives approximate time periods. Maybe that will help clear the confusion.

EL PASO, Texas -- The death of an 82-year-old Central El Paso County man is the county's fifth death associated with the H1N1 flu virus, El Paso Department of Public Health officials said.

The man was recently hospitalized with a flu-like illness, and lab tests confirmed he had the H1N1 flu. No other information about the death was released.

The county's fourth H1N1 flu-related death was announced Wednesday, the death of a 59-year-old man from Northeast El Paso County.

Other H1N1 flu-related deaths included a 43-year-old man who died the first week in June, a pregnant 24-year-old woman who died May 24 and a 42-year-old man who died May 19.​
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

appleblossom said:
Flutrackers Suspected U.S. Fatalities 6/25/09.....

#13 New York - NYC 47 year old man, T. Scott Cunningham, died 6/20/09 reported 6/23/09 *died at NYU Medical Center from complications due to pneumonia and Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome Confirmed ??
http://www.t-g.com/story/1549554.html

TOTAL - 15
Click to expand...

just food for thought or speculation here.
I typically take deaths labelled as from "pneumonia" or "pneumonia with ARDS" to be potential euphemisms for HIV/AIDS-associated causes. Add that to a young male in the theatrical profession, and this seems wayyyyy less likely to be H1N1 to me.
just thinking out loud......
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

I typically take deaths labelled as from "pneumonia" or "pneumonia with ARDS" to be potential euphemisms for HIV/AIDS-associated causes. Add that to a young male in the theatrical profession, and this seems wayyyyy less likely to be H1N1 to me.
just thinking out loud......
Click to expand...

I had the exact same thought, but I didn't want to make too many assumptions about his status. Even if he were HIV+, wouldn't that make him more susceptible to H1N1?


but back to TX... MedTroll how did you get to 15 on your list? Are you counting the mystery man in Bexar County as a confirmed?
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

appleblossom said:
I had the exact same thought, but I didn't want to make too many assumptions about his status. Even if he were HIV+, wouldn't that make him more susceptible to H1N1?


but back to TX... MedTroll how did you get to 15 on your list? Are you counting the mystery man in Bexar County as a confirmed?
Click to expand...

Re: HIV - yes, absolutely. but, progression of the primary disease is more than enough to invite death. still, I am sure that HIV status is one of the "underlying health conditions" that may have been involved in some of the deaths -- in that respect, it seems more palatable that officials haven't disclosed any info, however frustrating.

Re: Texas totals. If you take that list that Texas DOH listed on face, then add the 2 deaths today (59 and 82 yr-olds), that gives you 15. medtroll, didn't you do the same?
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

appleblossom said:
I had the exact same thought, but I didn't want to make too many assumptions about his status. Even if he were HIV+, wouldn't that make him more susceptible to H1N1?
Click to expand...

Actually, now that I think about it, if he were to have been H1N1-positive, then they could have easily listed him as a death with an "underlying serious health condition". But, they didn't. That could mean: a) that didn't test him (not likely), b) he was H1N1-negative and died of his disease, c) he was H1N1-positive, but that the progressive clinical course of his disease over the course of the past months/year (not just of this hospitalization) resulted in his expected demise. Or, I guess, d) they lied (I don't think so?).

In any case, no real data available, and he is buried........so...............??
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

cutter said:
Re: HIV - yes, absolutely. but, progression of the primary disease is more than enough to invite death. still, I am sure that HIV status is one of the "underlying health conditions" that may have been involved in some of the deaths -- in that respect, it seems more palatable that officials haven't disclosed any info, however frustrating.

Re: Texas totals. If you take that list that Texas DOH listed on face, then add the 2 deaths today (59 and 82 yr-olds), that gives you 15. medtroll, didn't you do the same?
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I did.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

cutter said:
Re: Texas totals. If you take that list that Texas DOH listed on face, then add the 2 deaths today (59 and 82 yr-olds), that gives you 15. medtroll, didn't you do the same?
Click to expand...
I have 15 and that's how I came up with it.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

cutter said:
Actually, now that I think about it, if he were to have been H1N1-positive, then they could have easily listed him as a death with an "underlying serious health condition". But, they didn't. That could mean: a) that didn't test him (not likely), b) he was H1N1-negative and died of his disease, c) he was H1N1-positive, but that the progressive clinical course of his disease over the course of the past months/year (not just of this hospitalization) resulted in his expected demise. Or, I guess, d) they lied (I don't think so?).

In any case, no real data available, and he is buried........so...............??
Click to expand...

If you look at the breakdown of deaths in NYC on the Health Dept. website (http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/cd/cd-h1n1flu-data.shtml) you'll see that several deaths have "immune deficiency" listed as the underlying condition.

JMHO, but I think we probably could find dozens of deaths where pneumonia, or even ARDS, are listed as the cause of death - I don't think without some other circumstance to make us think that it's an H1N1 death that it should be listed as a "suspected" case. Otherwise the list will become too unwieldly.

Just my 2 cents....
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

cutter said:
just food for thought or speculation here.
I typically take deaths labelled as from "pneumonia" or "pneumonia with ARDS" to be potential euphemisms for HIV/AIDS-associated causes. Add that to a young male in the theatrical profession, and this seems wayyyyy less likely to be H1N1 to me.
just thinking out loud......
Click to expand...

I would normally agree, but with H1N1 the outcome is very similar. One of the pregnant women that was part of one of the early CDC studies developed ARDS and died. The New York State Health Department guidelines for clinical assessment also includes pediatric ARDS as a condition to be treated with anti-virals.

I am not at all trying to be argumentative, but just like you, thinking out loud.

Edited:

I don't want to sound like I am suggesting that we include these in our list. In an area with confirmed H1N1 cases, deaths attributed to ARDS arouse my suspicions, but without a test confirming the presence of the virus I don't include them on my list.

http://www.health.state.ny.us/disea...uenza/h1n1/clinical_guidance_for_children.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm58d0512a1.htm
 
Last edited:
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

thebes said:
If you look at the breakdown of deaths in NYC on the Health Dept. website (http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/cd/cd-h1n1flu-data.shtml) you'll see that several deaths have "immune deficiency" listed as the underlying condition.

JMHO, but I think we probably could find dozens of deaths where pneumonia, or even ARDS, are listed as the cause of death - I don't think without some other circumstance to make us think that it's an H1N1 death that it should be listed as a "suspected" case. Otherwise the list will become too unwieldly.

Just my 2 cents....
Click to expand...

I accept your point and completely agree.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

MedTroll said:
I would normally agree, but with H1N1 the outcome is very similar. One of the pregnant women that was part of one of the early CDC studies developed ARDS and died. The New York State Health Department guidelines for clinical assessment also includes pediatric ARDS as a condition to be treated with anti-virals.

I am not at all trying to be argumentative, but just like you, thinking out loud.
Click to expand...

Don't mind at all if we're all thinking out loud.
I think we've already agreed on this, but just wanted to point out that ARDS is pretty common. So, if that's all we have, then it's incomplete data. Plus, once ARDS kicks in, it has to be driven by something, so the standard clinical approach is an extensive search for the 'something'. Hence, that should include assessment for H1N1, as well as other infectious/inflammatory sources. Unless the patient succumbs within 24-48 hours (which some have done), there would have been available results of tests/cultures to rule-in or rule-out H1N1, and I think that would become part of the immediate post-mortem analysis of what the cause of death was. Anyway, more out-loud thinking.

Hey, did you guys see that the total for CA is now 17!
They snuck some under the radar, again.
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

I thought California was at 10, did I blink?
 
Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

Re: Links - Updated U.S. Death Counts

pflu said:
I thought California was at 10, did I blink?
Click to expand...

lol. yeah, we all did.
the CA DOH has held things close-to-the-vest, ya know.
I think one of them is the confirmation of Cristian, that we've been waiting for, but they don't offer an ID, so it's just a guess.
 
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