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Discussion thread VI - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

Israeli oral COVID-19 vaccine en route to clinical trials
...
By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN JUNE 11, 2021 06:26
...
The company is calling their vaccine MigVax-101. Unlike the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines that use messenger RNA, this is an oral subunit vaccine, meaning the vaccine presents the coronavirus antigen to the immune system without introducing pathogen particles, whole or otherwise.

In the preclinical trial, the company administered the vaccine in a boost format to the rats following a double injection of the coronavirus spike (S1) protein. The results showed that using MigVax as a booster elicited markedly higher neutralizing antibody titers than rats receiving an oral placebo booster, a release explained. In addition, it elicited more effective neutralizing antibodies than a third S1 booster injection.

“They are looking to use this as a booster for those who took the Chinese vaccine, AstraZeneca or Moderna or Pfizer,” Dr. Morris Laster, who is responsible for medical technology investments for OurCrowd told The Jerusalem Post. OurCrowd led MigVax’s first investment round.

According to Laster, the vaccine has several advantages, including that because it is an oral vaccine it would not require administration by a medical professional. Also, it utilizes more than one kind of protein, which could make it more effective against variants. The vaccine does not require freezing conditions like the mRNA vaccines so it could be easier to store and distribute.

Finally, because it does not inject people with genetic or viral material, Laster believes that more people will be prone to taking it.
...
https://www.jpost.com/health-scienc...ovid-19-vaccine-works-as-booster-study-670679
 
also confirmed by PHE in the upcoming surveillance report
.
It could be different for variants, i.e. B.1.617
From earlier I remember that natural infection was as good as one dose of vaccine only
maybe I can find the source

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ossible-covid-19-reinfection-published-by-phe
June 24 : https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-flu-and-covid-19-surveillance-reports
---------------------------------
sorry for the confusion, this is old. It was alredy in the report from Jun17
(updated monthly) page 17-19
https://assets.publishing.service.g...994577/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w24.pdf
----------------------------------

I remember one person at twitter asking whether he should be vaccinated if he had already been infected
and we found some sources suggesting that yes, natural infection was as "good" as one dose
I can't find it now.
 
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WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads

PUBLISHED FRI, JUN 25 20212:02 PM EDTUPDATED FRI, JUN 25 20214:34 PM EDT
...
The World Health Organization on Friday urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe.

“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves,” Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said during a news briefing from the agency’s Geneva headquarters.

“Vaccine alone won’t stop community transmission,” Simao added. “People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene ... the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you’re vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing.”
...
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, prompting the government there to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures.
...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/del...ontinue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html


See also:

UK: more than 50% of deaths from Delta variant are in the vaccinated
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum...aths-from-delta-variant-are-in-the-vaccinated
 
Pathfinder said:
WHO urges fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks as delta Covid variant spreads

PUBLISHED FRI, JUN 25 20212:02 PM EDTUPDATED FRI, JUN 25 20214:34 PM EDT
...
The World Health Organization on Friday urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe.

“People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves,” Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said during a news briefing from the agency’s Geneva headquarters.

“Vaccine alone won’t stop community transmission,” Simao added. “People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene ... the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you’re vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing.”
...
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that about half of adults infected in an outbreak of the delta variant in Israel were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, prompting the government there to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures.
...
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/delt...t-spreads.html


See also:

UK: more than 50% of deaths from Delta variant are in the vaccinated
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...the-vaccinated
Click to expand...

NOT MEDICAL ADVICE! If you have any questions about vaccines, medicines, or any medical condition, consult your medical practitioner.


We are early in this disease. Despite many studies saying one thing, or the other, the fact is we just don't know everything.

Be prudent. Do NOT depend on a vaccine or any drug to "save you". Get your control back. Even if you are fully vaccinated like I am, be careful what situations you put yourself into.

Today there is a study that the RNA vaccines may give long term protection....ok....show me the real life data around virus shedding people.....

Masks are being pushed...ok...they help....but the most common ones let air inside...so they are only sorta effective by themselves.....

There are some drugs....but again, do you really want to count on this?

So, in the end, use your common sense....assess your risk factors....pick what venues to attend...take a mask if you are uneasy....

COVID-19 is airborne. You know what to do.

Only you can protect you.
 
And the stupid push, push vaccine messaging award goes to....


I have polled a few people who are fully vaccinated - almost all in the high risk categories. They are resistant to implementing any more actions against COVID-19. The messages that if you take the vaccine you can have your normal life back again are what people want(ed) to hear. So they got the vaccine. One 85 year old person told me that they are not wearing masks inside any more. Period. I mentioned that the UK Delta deaths were about 50% fully vaccinated and, frankly, people don't want to hear this.

As stated above - the messaging should have been..."Hey we have these vaccines...we are not sure about how great they are but they seem promising. Some may be 90%ish effective in preventing serious illness and/or death. They will not cover everyone all the time, but compared to the emerging data about COVID-19 and what it can do to the body, please consider getting the vaccine after talking to your medical practitioner."

And then followed by...."These vaccines are not guaranteed and there are always side effects. After vaccination you will need to still select your activities to keep your risk as low as possible. Live your life but follow the news on COVID-19 and try to be alert to new developments. If you choose not to get vaccinated, be very vigilant regarding developments and always carry a mask in your pocket just-in-case. Surgical masks do not stop airborne viruses but they are better than nothing."

Please see:

Israel requires masks indoors again as Delta variant drives up cases

UK: more than 50% of deaths from Delta variant are in the vaccinated

US - CDC: COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Case Investigation and Reporting
 
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https://twitter.com/NicoleStoutPT/st...59585566412810

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Nicole L. Stout DPT, FAPTA
@NicoleStoutPT
Oncology rehab & survivorship researcher, speaker, author. Optimizing health for cancer survivors. ..

It has taken me a week to gather thoughts & put together a thread on what happened to my husband and I last week. The message is important, it is one of awareness and practical vigilance. The choices we made at the time were logical based on our current vaccinated status…BUT 1/

2:38 PM · Jun 29, 2021·Twitter for iPad


Two weeks ago, today, Jay started to exhibit symptoms of a head cold. He had been in meeting on Monday w/another guy who had a head cold at work…or so they thought. Work guy said he’d had a rapid test done and it was negative for COVID. no further questions…for now 2/



Jay develops worsening congestion, chest congestion, eventually fevers (Thursday) and learns that evening that work guy tested positive for COVID on a PCR that came back that day. BUT I”M VACCINATED…my husband said as he was fevery at 102 and coughing/congested all night. 3/


He tested Friday w/ + COVID PCR returned on Sat. yes, he was vaccinated in March/April w/Pfizer. What should I do…quarantine in the house? Not worry? I”M VACCINATED TOO. A pubmed search & hrs later all I’ve got is “it is EXTREMELY rare for vaccinated people to contract COVID”


He moved to quarantine in the house and I was nervous. Jay slept most of Friday/Saturday/Sunday and only on Monday broke fevers. Lost taste and smell on Friday afternoon. O2 sats in the low 90s all weekend. Sunday night I was extremely fatigued, but I”M VACCINATED…5/


Monday escalated with symptoms for me, Monday night I was fevery at 101.5, went to see PCP on Tuesday for test(Same PCP as husband). the PCP however said ‘we can’t test you’ you’ve been vaccinated and need a special test and have to go to the county health dept. 6/


So, I packed up my fevery self into the cold rainy morning and drove to the health dept where they looked at me like I had 2 heads when i asked for the ‘special’ COVID test since, I’M VACCINATED. No, go back to PCP we don’t have any special test. PCP eventually agreed to test me


Not shocking it was + in 24 hrs, during which time I developed tinnitus, lost taste & smell, and was down with fevers through Wed night. Through my contacts at the state health dept and my university, I was able to have Jay’s and my samples pulled and sent for sequencing.


This entire time, no one asked either of us for our vaccine proof, date, or vial numbers. I had Moderna and he had Pfizer. No one knew how to test us or how to report a test for vaccinated COVID + people. Everyone said it was “extremely rare for vaccinated people to get COVID”.


CDC, state health dept, PCPs, there was no information to be found re: vaccinated people. Do we shed viral material the same? Quarantine for the same time? Can we re-infect one another? I used best judgement & most-restrictive practice (and a lot of bleach)


I am somewhat concerned that this would not have been investigated without my own professional contacts. I’m frustrated by getting sick, of course, but more so intrigued by the repeated mantra of “it is extremely rare for people who are vaccinated to get COVID”…well…


…maybe that was true in the world of social distancing. mask wear & limited groups in public. Protections in place may have lulled us into a false sense of security regarding that extremely rare post vaccine + case. 2 of us, in the same house, w/2 different vaccines???


Yes, its likely a ‘variant’ we don’t have that info just yet. But I think there is an important and balanced message to send as we start shedding masks and resuming ‘normal’, and that is to be vigilant. Sensible and vigilant. If you’re sick stay home, wear a mask if you can’t.


If you’re around someone sniffling/coughing put on a mask & don’t by shy to ask them to do the same. WE are out of the woods, but my recovery is VERY slow and not progressive. I’m not sure yet that our society is out of the woods. Use caution and as I always say WASH YOUR HANDS!
 
There is quite a lot going on in this post and a few missing bits of key data. How old are they, when was she vaccinated and how good is the vaccine uptake in their area?
The two mRNA vaccines are basically the same in there MO's and use a slightly modified version of the wild type spike but have sight differences in the lipid delivery system. They are both extremely effective at preventing hospitalisation and death but do not provide steralising immunity.
In most people they will have produced a significant IgG antibody response and plenty of B cells to produce them plus a few longer live memory B and T cells. The bulk of the effector B cells and their antibodies will die off with a half life of about a month so vaccination 3 months ago will leave you with about an eighth of what you originally had. If this is not enough to prevent infection, as in this case, then you are reliant on the memory cells to detect the infection and divide until you have enough matched B cells making antibodies and T cells to kill off any infected cells, which takes time.
An added complication is not everybody is the same in their reaction to challenge and some will not sero-convert to any detectable extent how many varies significantly between trials but is probably less than 5%. The other factor is the variants, none of which I view as being very different to those that came before them, but they will slightly reduce the vaccine efficacy the further away from the vaccine strain they drift. All of this nudges the battle in the viruses favour.
If you do get infected you will probably clear the virus much more quickly than if unvaccinated, and shed less virions in the process, but given sufficiently close/prolonged contact, or just bad luck, you may infect others. This virus has a particularly high R(0) so doubling the number of contacts you have may be enough to undo the good vaccinating 50% of the population does. As things open up and people are less cautious do not be surprised if case rise rapidly. I am in the UK and we have had a rapid growth in case numbers but not deaths, which I put down to the vaccine program, and are due to lift even more restriction which I think is sending the wrong message. I expect more cases and more deaths among the young who have yet to get vaccinated. On a per case basis they cope with the virus better but as the main unvaccinated group they will shift the age distribution downward.
 
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The same thing occured with the alpha variant (B1.1.7) as the spike had drifted away from the test but the UK test was still picking it up as it also had an N gene primer which was unaffected. I could not find anything specific on which primers the French were using or what change the sequencing found that caused their test to fail. If anyone has seen this data please post a link.
 
https://katv.com/newsletter-daily/a...ine-after-mom-dies-from-covid-19-unvaccinated

Arkansas family urges people to get vaccine after unvaccinated mom dies from COVID-19
by MILLS HAYES | KATV Staff
Wednesday, July 7th 2021

...
Kim’s daughters, Rachel Maginn Rosser and Noelle Collier, both were vaccinated and had pleaded with their mom before she died to get the vaccine too.
(She's) very stubborn and she had made up her mind that that wasn’t what she was going to do,” Rachel said.​

It was a decision her daughters believe led to her untimely death. Rosser is a nurse in northwest Arkansas.
Noelle was fully vaccinated but still got COVID-19 from exposure to her mom.


“It was the worst sickness I have ever had,” Noelle said. “I was down for about a week and I was able to bounce back within that week.”

Noelle said her husband and one of her children got sick with the virus after she did as well. She’s worried because neither of her children is eligible to get the vaccine.

The delta variant has been gaining traction in central Arkansas over the last month. The family believes that’s the variant that led to their mom’s death because it made other family members uncomfortably sick who were already vaccinated.
 
My personal comment (not associated with Flutrackers):

"Mandatory/coerced vaccination is no more about saving lives than rape is about love."
 
The bottom line is that vaccination is only one tool to fight COVID. Maybe we can relax a little but we are still going to need masks, social distancing, and other measures to stop the spread, even if 100% of the population gets vaccinated.
 
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