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Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning.... - Ja
- Thread starter tetano
- Start date
sharon sanders
Editor-in-Chief & President
facebook...letting the world know what the facts are.....so ridiculous....
sharon sanders
Editor-in-Chief & President
For historical purposes the start of this thread was on January 22, 2020 with this post on the general COVID-19 discussion thread:
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...958#post823958
A previous participant, Goju, sent FluTrackers an email with the information, which I posted. I copied that post as the first post on this thread on January 23, 2020.
Thank you to everyone who has participated here.
I expect a world tribunal will be held about how COVID-19 started. It will be important to follow all relevant international laws for these types of proceedings.
Our condolences to everyone who has been affected - which is, actually, the entire world. So sorry.
Your Team at FluTrackers.
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...958#post823958
A previous participant, Goju, sent FluTrackers an email with the information, which I posted. I copied that post as the first post on this thread on January 23, 2020.
Thank you to everyone who has participated here.
I expect a world tribunal will be held about how COVID-19 started. It will be important to follow all relevant international laws for these types of proceedings.
Our condolences to everyone who has been affected - which is, actually, the entire world. So sorry.
Your Team at FluTrackers.
tetano
Editor, Senior Moderator
Has new evidence emerged?
Despite the Biden announcement and various stories in the US media claiming support is growing for the Wuhan lab leak theory, the answer is that surprisingly little has changed in terms of good quality evidence – at least in the public domain.
How reliable is the evidence?
The intelligence relating to the three staff at the WIV has been described as uncorroborated evidence from a foreign source, ie it was not obtained – or so far verified – by a US intelligence agency, and was initially looked at under the Trump administration.
“It was very precise,” one source told the WSJ, but added the crucial caveat: “What it didn’t tell you was exactly why they got sick.”
According to the New York Times, not one but two intelligence documents were produced discussing the sick workers, one focused on the three individuals, the second about what was known about the origins of the coronavirus. There are multiple issues, however, with how to interpret this information.
Questions include whether the symptoms seen were of coronavirus or bad flu (or something else) and whether the sickness – if it was coronavirus – was related to work in their lab, or simply suggests that Covid-19 was circulating in the general population in Wuhan a few weeks earlier than assumed.
So where are we with the animal host theory?
Much has been made by some of the fact that no intermediate animal host – between humans and bats – has so far been identified, which has been cited in some places as somehow supporting the lab leak theory.
The reality is that identifying animal hosts in past coronavirus outbreaks has been a lengthy and uncertain process. While it is known that dromedaries were a major reservoir host for Mers, even now the role of the animals in transmitting the virus is poorly understood.
The same was true with the Sars outbreak. While civet cats were suspected as intermediate hosts, it took years to confirm. In neither case was there was a suggestion of a lab leak. Because of that, the model of transmission via an intermediate host has remained the predominant one under consideration.
Another issue is that a lot of focus of research into the origins of Covid-19 so far has relied on the very specialised field of the interpretation of gene sequences of the virus, an area that is less accessible to non-experts including journalists.
So has the lab leak theory become more credible or not?
The bottom line is that it is still impossible to know with any certainty, as Biden has said.
Lab accidents do happen all the time, meaning that without further evidence a lab leak remains a possibility. The experience of Sars and Mers suggests that coronaviruses do break out naturally and that understanding their origins is difficult.
Chinese obstruction of research into Covid-19’s origins, combined with its own promotion of conspiracy theories over a foreign origin of the disease, make it look like it has something sinister to hide.
As the experience of the Iraq weapons inspectors demonstrated, obstruction can be profoundly misunderstood as suggesting a motive: ie Saddam Hussein was not hiding WMD but had substantially disarmed.
And where we are today, as Adam Taylor put it cleverly in the Washington Post on Thursday, is nowhere close to a resolution.
“Although the resurgent chatter may suggest new clues or proof, the inverse is in fact true. It is the persistent absence of any convincing evidence either for or against the theory that has prompted calls for more investigation.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/did-covid-come-from-a-wuhan-lab-what-we-know-so-far
Despite the Biden announcement and various stories in the US media claiming support is growing for the Wuhan lab leak theory, the answer is that surprisingly little has changed in terms of good quality evidence – at least in the public domain.
How reliable is the evidence?
The intelligence relating to the three staff at the WIV has been described as uncorroborated evidence from a foreign source, ie it was not obtained – or so far verified – by a US intelligence agency, and was initially looked at under the Trump administration.
“It was very precise,” one source told the WSJ, but added the crucial caveat: “What it didn’t tell you was exactly why they got sick.”
According to the New York Times, not one but two intelligence documents were produced discussing the sick workers, one focused on the three individuals, the second about what was known about the origins of the coronavirus. There are multiple issues, however, with how to interpret this information.
Questions include whether the symptoms seen were of coronavirus or bad flu (or something else) and whether the sickness – if it was coronavirus – was related to work in their lab, or simply suggests that Covid-19 was circulating in the general population in Wuhan a few weeks earlier than assumed.
So where are we with the animal host theory?
Much has been made by some of the fact that no intermediate animal host – between humans and bats – has so far been identified, which has been cited in some places as somehow supporting the lab leak theory.
The reality is that identifying animal hosts in past coronavirus outbreaks has been a lengthy and uncertain process. While it is known that dromedaries were a major reservoir host for Mers, even now the role of the animals in transmitting the virus is poorly understood.
The same was true with the Sars outbreak. While civet cats were suspected as intermediate hosts, it took years to confirm. In neither case was there was a suggestion of a lab leak. Because of that, the model of transmission via an intermediate host has remained the predominant one under consideration.
Another issue is that a lot of focus of research into the origins of Covid-19 so far has relied on the very specialised field of the interpretation of gene sequences of the virus, an area that is less accessible to non-experts including journalists.
So has the lab leak theory become more credible or not?
The bottom line is that it is still impossible to know with any certainty, as Biden has said.
Lab accidents do happen all the time, meaning that without further evidence a lab leak remains a possibility. The experience of Sars and Mers suggests that coronaviruses do break out naturally and that understanding their origins is difficult.
Chinese obstruction of research into Covid-19’s origins, combined with its own promotion of conspiracy theories over a foreign origin of the disease, make it look like it has something sinister to hide.
As the experience of the Iraq weapons inspectors demonstrated, obstruction can be profoundly misunderstood as suggesting a motive: ie Saddam Hussein was not hiding WMD but had substantially disarmed.
And where we are today, as Adam Taylor put it cleverly in the Washington Post on Thursday, is nowhere close to a resolution.
“Although the resurgent chatter may suggest new clues or proof, the inverse is in fact true. It is the persistent absence of any convincing evidence either for or against the theory that has prompted calls for more investigation.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/did-covid-come-from-a-wuhan-lab-what-we-know-so-far
sharon sanders
Editor-in-Chief & President
From my prospective the only thing that has changed at this minute is that large media groups are not banning the debate anymore. They actually promoted one side for the last year instead of investigating the situation in any kind of fair manner. In fact, they called the mere mention of the lab origination possibility "fake news" and a bunch of other derogatory names.
Shiloh
Editor, Senior Moderator
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57267729
Covid: China hits back as US revisits Wuhan lab-leak theory
Published
4 hours ago
China has denounced US efforts to further investigate whether Covid-19 came from a Chinese lab.
US President Joe Biden has said he expects to release the results of an intelligence report on the origins of the virus.
China's foreign ministry accused the US of "political manipulation and blame shifting".
It has rejected any link between Covid-19 and a virus research lab in the Chinese city of Wuhan...
...Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it showed the US "does not care about facts or truth, and has zero interest in a serious science-based study of origins".
"Their aim is to use the pandemic to pursue stigmatisation, political manipulation and blame shifting. They are being disrespectful to science, irresponsible to people's lives and counter-productive to the concerted efforts to fight the virus," he said...
...Analysis by John Sudworth, China Correspondent
...The truth is, there's always been plenty of circumstantial evidence to support both competing theories. A zoonotic origin, in which the virus passes naturally from bat to humans, is supported by the fact that coronaviruses have crossed the species barrier in exactly this way before.
There are also plenty of precedents for lab leaks in which researchers get accidentally infected by the virus they're working on. The Wuhan outbreak happens to be on the doorstep of the world's leading laboratory for the collection, study and experimentation on bat coronaviruses.
What's changed is not the evidence - of which there is none so far to prove either scenario - but the politics. The lab-leak theory, born into an environment poisoned by disinformation, was undermined not so much by China's denials, but by the fact it was being pumped by former US President Donald Trump.
Media organisations everywhere gave it the cold shoulder. My own attempts to look seriously at the lab-leak theory in May last year ran into long and fraught editorial discussions before it finally made it to publication.
The prevailing narrative has also loomed large over the science. Despite the dominant voices of some leading virologists insisting that only a zoonotic origin needed be investigated, a determined group of scientists has continued to argue that both scenarios should remain on the table.
It may be too late, of course. Wherever the debate goes now, China is extremely unlikely to allow another investigation on its soil...
Covid: China hits back as US revisits Wuhan lab-leak theory
Published
4 hours ago
China has denounced US efforts to further investigate whether Covid-19 came from a Chinese lab.
US President Joe Biden has said he expects to release the results of an intelligence report on the origins of the virus.
China's foreign ministry accused the US of "political manipulation and blame shifting".
It has rejected any link between Covid-19 and a virus research lab in the Chinese city of Wuhan...
...Foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said it showed the US "does not care about facts or truth, and has zero interest in a serious science-based study of origins".
"Their aim is to use the pandemic to pursue stigmatisation, political manipulation and blame shifting. They are being disrespectful to science, irresponsible to people's lives and counter-productive to the concerted efforts to fight the virus," he said...
...Analysis by John Sudworth, China Correspondent
...The truth is, there's always been plenty of circumstantial evidence to support both competing theories. A zoonotic origin, in which the virus passes naturally from bat to humans, is supported by the fact that coronaviruses have crossed the species barrier in exactly this way before.
There are also plenty of precedents for lab leaks in which researchers get accidentally infected by the virus they're working on. The Wuhan outbreak happens to be on the doorstep of the world's leading laboratory for the collection, study and experimentation on bat coronaviruses.
What's changed is not the evidence - of which there is none so far to prove either scenario - but the politics. The lab-leak theory, born into an environment poisoned by disinformation, was undermined not so much by China's denials, but by the fact it was being pumped by former US President Donald Trump.
Media organisations everywhere gave it the cold shoulder. My own attempts to look seriously at the lab-leak theory in May last year ran into long and fraught editorial discussions before it finally made it to publication.
The prevailing narrative has also loomed large over the science. Despite the dominant voices of some leading virologists insisting that only a zoonotic origin needed be investigated, a determined group of scientists has continued to argue that both scenarios should remain on the table.
It may be too late, of course. Wherever the debate goes now, China is extremely unlikely to allow another investigation on its soil...
Emily
Editor, Senior Moderator
The civet cat as intermediate host theory is bunk.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cla.12425
https://web.archive.org/web/20140819083322/http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/SARStree.htm
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cla.12425
https://web.archive.org/web/20140819083322/http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/SARStree.htm
Emily
Editor, Senior Moderator
https://radioopensource.org/lab-leak/#
Christopher Lydon, host
Lab Leak
There’s a swerve in the road, signs that say “Sharp Curves Ahead,” in the origin story of the COVID pandemic. Where did that virus come from? And how did it leap to the human species, to kill by now more than three million of us? For a year and a half, it’s been a buried issue, a trial without evidence, a detective story without its Sherlock Holmes on the case. And now the mystery plot thickens alongside a second buried story: that the Wuhan lab in China that did manipulate viruses to make them more deadly for humans had dollar support, American science alongside it and US oversight by healthcare officials including Dr. Fauci himself. If the killer virus did leap from that lab in Wuhan, who’s responsible for a joint venture that produced the deadliest accident in human history?
Eavesdrop with us this hour: on the COVID question, the “lab leak” mystery that is finally front and center and making a lot of the experts squirm. It’s about where and how the coronavirus made contact with people. Is the merciless pandemic revealing nature’s way with viruses, or the hand of science reaching far beyond its grasp, without even counting the risks? We’re listening in on a meta-novelist, a Singapore biologist in a Cambridge lab, and a scoop artist high in scientific journalism—all puzzling where the killer coronavirus came from. And we’re engaging one of the rare American scientists who tried to steer his colleagues off a path to disaster: Richard Ebright.
Guest List
Nicholson Baker
Author.
Alina Chan
Molecular biologist at the Broad Institute.
Antonio Regalado
Senior editor with the MIT Tech Review.
Richard Ebright
Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers.
Christopher Lydon, host
Lab Leak
There’s a swerve in the road, signs that say “Sharp Curves Ahead,” in the origin story of the COVID pandemic. Where did that virus come from? And how did it leap to the human species, to kill by now more than three million of us? For a year and a half, it’s been a buried issue, a trial without evidence, a detective story without its Sherlock Holmes on the case. And now the mystery plot thickens alongside a second buried story: that the Wuhan lab in China that did manipulate viruses to make them more deadly for humans had dollar support, American science alongside it and US oversight by healthcare officials including Dr. Fauci himself. If the killer virus did leap from that lab in Wuhan, who’s responsible for a joint venture that produced the deadliest accident in human history?
Eavesdrop with us this hour: on the COVID question, the “lab leak” mystery that is finally front and center and making a lot of the experts squirm. It’s about where and how the coronavirus made contact with people. Is the merciless pandemic revealing nature’s way with viruses, or the hand of science reaching far beyond its grasp, without even counting the risks? We’re listening in on a meta-novelist, a Singapore biologist in a Cambridge lab, and a scoop artist high in scientific journalism—all puzzling where the killer coronavirus came from. And we’re engaging one of the rare American scientists who tried to steer his colleagues off a path to disaster: Richard Ebright.
Guest List
Nicholson Baker
Author.
Alina Chan
Molecular biologist at the Broad Institute.
Antonio Regalado
Senior editor with the MIT Tech Review.
Richard Ebright
Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers.
bertrand789
Well-known member
fun, to have a trial you need a framework and texts. So the judicial body able to look at the management troubles that have been brought to light, both from China and from the United States, it may be?
The pressure will increase, because this crisis is far from over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LSMpuQcTSE
I took the time, last night, to review the link history:
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...958#post823958
It's actually a small part, but the ones that focus on visual reporting in China are uplifting. I am looking for three aspects:
- the one on the traditional medicine product: eye drops made with bat droppings
- the one that addresses the quality approach implemented in the sewers of this market and perhaps of the whole city of Wuhan. In fact, that the quality of water treatment is at the level of that of the Ganges ...
- the methodologies in use to check that all the products of traditional medicine that leave China are to be respected?
I really enjoyed reading this:
Reptile traffickers trawl scientific literature, target newly described species
https://news.mongabay.com/2021/05/r...ic-literature-target-newly-described-species/
Data on a virus is published and less than a month later, what has been done, see the history?
The pressure will increase, because this crisis is far from over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LSMpuQcTSE
I took the time, last night, to review the link history:
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...958#post823958
It's actually a small part, but the ones that focus on visual reporting in China are uplifting. I am looking for three aspects:
- the one on the traditional medicine product: eye drops made with bat droppings
- the one that addresses the quality approach implemented in the sewers of this market and perhaps of the whole city of Wuhan. In fact, that the quality of water treatment is at the level of that of the Ganges ...
- the methodologies in use to check that all the products of traditional medicine that leave China are to be respected?
I really enjoyed reading this:
Reptile traffickers trawl scientific literature, target newly described species
https://news.mongabay.com/2021/05/r...ic-literature-target-newly-described-species/
Data on a virus is published and less than a month later, what has been done, see the history?
sharon sanders
Editor-in-Chief & President
bump this
bertrand789
Well-known member
look at the Chernobyl nuclear disaster:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
Who has a human cause, how long did it take to write it down and it had consequences in terms of procedure, if not internally?
look at the Chernobyl nuclear disaster:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
Who has a human cause, how long did it take to write it down and it had consequences in terms of procedure, if not internally?
The wikipedia file in French does not mention the details of the accident, normal it is a sector of saints ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
Who has a human cause, how long did it take to write it down and it had consequences in terms of procedure, if not internally?
look at the Chernobyl nuclear disaster:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
Who has a human cause, how long did it take to write it down and it had consequences in terms of procedure, if not internally?
The wikipedia file in French does not mention the details of the accident, normal it is a sector of saints ...
Shiloh
Editor, Senior Moderator
EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has NO credible natural ancestor' and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims
An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory
DailyMail.com exclusively obtained the new 22-page paper authored by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery
The study showed there's evidence to suggest Chinese scientists created the virus while working on a Gain of Function project in a Wuhan lab
Gain of Function research, which was temporarily outlawed in the US, involves altering naturally-occurring viruses to make them more infectious in order to study their potential effects on humans
According to the paper, Chinese scientists took a natural coronavirus 'backbone' found in Chinese cave bats and spliced onto it a new 'spike', turning it into the deadly and highly transmissible COVID-19
The researchers, who concluded that COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor', also believe scientists reverse-engineered versions of the virus to cover up their tracks
'We think that there have been retro-engineered viruses created,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com. 'They've changed the virus, then tried to make out it was in a sequence years ago.'
The study also points to 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' in Chinese labs and notes that 'scientists who wished to share their findings haven't been able to do so or have disappeared'
Until recently, most experts had staunchly denied the origins of the virus were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans
Earlier this week, Dr. Anthony Fauci defended US funding of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, saying the $600,000 grant was not approved for Gain of Function research
By Josh Boswell For Dailymail.com
Published: 17:50 EDT, 28 May 2021 | Updated: 22:00 EDT, 28 May 2021
An explosive new study claims that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a Wuhan lab, then tried to cover their tracks by reverse-engineering versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats.
The paper's authors, British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen, wrote that they have had 'prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China' for a year - but were ignored by academics and major journals.
Dalgleish is a professor of oncology at St George's University, London, and is best known for his breakthrough creating the first working 'HIV vaccine', to treat diagnosed patients and allow them to go off medication for months.
Sørensen, a virologist, is chair of pharmaceutical company, Immunor, which developed a coronavirus vaccine candidate called Biovacc-19. Dalgleish also has share options in the firm.
The shocking allegations in the study include accusations of 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' at Chinese labs, and it notes the silencing and disappearance of scientists in the communist country who spoke out.
The journal article, exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com and slated for publication in the coming days, is set to make waves among the scientific community, as the majority of experts have until recently staunchly denied the origins of COVID-19 were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans...
Read more: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html
An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory
DailyMail.com exclusively obtained the new 22-page paper authored by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery
The study showed there's evidence to suggest Chinese scientists created the virus while working on a Gain of Function project in a Wuhan lab
Gain of Function research, which was temporarily outlawed in the US, involves altering naturally-occurring viruses to make them more infectious in order to study their potential effects on humans
According to the paper, Chinese scientists took a natural coronavirus 'backbone' found in Chinese cave bats and spliced onto it a new 'spike', turning it into the deadly and highly transmissible COVID-19
The researchers, who concluded that COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor', also believe scientists reverse-engineered versions of the virus to cover up their tracks
'We think that there have been retro-engineered viruses created,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com. 'They've changed the virus, then tried to make out it was in a sequence years ago.'
The study also points to 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' in Chinese labs and notes that 'scientists who wished to share their findings haven't been able to do so or have disappeared'
Until recently, most experts had staunchly denied the origins of the virus were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans
Earlier this week, Dr. Anthony Fauci defended US funding of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, saying the $600,000 grant was not approved for Gain of Function research
By Josh Boswell For Dailymail.com
Published: 17:50 EDT, 28 May 2021 | Updated: 22:00 EDT, 28 May 2021
An explosive new study claims that Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a Wuhan lab, then tried to cover their tracks by reverse-engineering versions of the virus to make it look like it evolved naturally from bats.
The paper's authors, British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen, wrote that they have had 'prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China' for a year - but were ignored by academics and major journals.
Dalgleish is a professor of oncology at St George's University, London, and is best known for his breakthrough creating the first working 'HIV vaccine', to treat diagnosed patients and allow them to go off medication for months.
Sørensen, a virologist, is chair of pharmaceutical company, Immunor, which developed a coronavirus vaccine candidate called Biovacc-19. Dalgleish also has share options in the firm.
The shocking allegations in the study include accusations of 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' at Chinese labs, and it notes the silencing and disappearance of scientists in the communist country who spoke out.
The journal article, exclusively obtained by DailyMail.com and slated for publication in the coming days, is set to make waves among the scientific community, as the majority of experts have until recently staunchly denied the origins of COVID-19 were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans...
Read more: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html
British tabloid journalism strikes again.
Going to be published in a Biophysics journal? I will be interested to see who peer reviews this.
An Oncologist P.S. according to https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/hiv-prevention/potential-future-options/hiv-vaccines "No. There is currently no vaccine available that will prevent HIV infection or treat those who have it."
and
"However, the final version of the research paper, which has undergone peer review and been accepted for publication in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery, doesn’t actually make any claims about whether the virus was natural or man-made in its current form."
https://fullfact.org/health/richard-dearlove-coronavirus-claims/
It looks like the peer reviewers were doing their job.
Going to be published in a Biophysics journal? I will be interested to see who peer reviews this.
An Oncologist P.S. according to https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/hiv-prevention/potential-future-options/hiv-vaccines "No. There is currently no vaccine available that will prevent HIV infection or treat those who have it."
and
"However, the final version of the research paper, which has undergone peer review and been accepted for publication in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery, doesn’t actually make any claims about whether the virus was natural or man-made in its current form."
https://fullfact.org/health/richard-dearlove-coronavirus-claims/
It looks like the peer reviewers were doing their job.
Shiloh
Editor, Senior Moderator
Source: https://www.dw.com/en/who-search-for-covid-19-origins-poisoned-by-politics/a-57710309
WHO: Search for COVID-19 origins 'poisoned by politics'
Michael Ryan made the assertion after President Joe Biden this week ordered the US intelligence community to investigate whether the virus first emerged from an animal source or from a laboratory accident.
The World Health Organization (WHO) warned on Friday that efforts to find the origin of the coronavirus pandemic were being undermined by politics.
"We would ask that we separate the science from the politics, and let us get on with finding the answers that we need in a proper, positive atmosphere," WHO emergencies chief Michael Ryan told reporters.
"This whole process is being poisoned by politics," he said...
WHO: Search for COVID-19 origins 'poisoned by politics'
Michael Ryan made the assertion after President Joe Biden this week ordered the US intelligence community to investigate whether the virus first emerged from an animal source or from a laboratory accident.
The World Health Organization (WHO) warned on Friday that efforts to find the origin of the coronavirus pandemic were being undermined by politics.
"We would ask that we separate the science from the politics, and let us get on with finding the answers that we need in a proper, positive atmosphere," WHO emergencies chief Michael Ryan told reporters.
"This whole process is being poisoned by politics," he said...
It is passing strange that the President would consider the US intelligence community a suitable body to investigate the origin of a disease outbreak. Perhaps the CDC could be tasked to see if there was any foreign interference in the Presidential election.
Pathfinder
Editor, Senior Moderator
Columnists
MALCOLM: The lab leak flip-flop shows what's wrong with journalism today
Author of the article:Candice Malcolm
Publishing date:May 29, 2021 • 4 hours ago • 2 minute read • 8 Comments
Everything wrong with journalism today can be summed up in one remarkable news story: the theory that COVID-19 leaked from a lab in China.
In the past seven days, this story has experienced an incredible 180 in terms of its credibility. After nearly 18 months of this theory being thoroughly discredited and debunked by all the fancy people in politics, the media and big tech, it is now suddenly a mainstream theory.
...
But it doesn’t stop there. Some scientists, who are held up by many as being exempt from any political influences, admitted that they purposely avoided examining the lab leak theory sooner simply because prominent conservatives were questioning it.
And, to add insult to injury, social media giants like Facebook admitted that they were hiding posts that talked about the lab link from their algorithm in an effort to stop the spread of “disinformation.”
...
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...-flop-shows-whats-wrong-with-journalism-today
MALCOLM: The lab leak flip-flop shows what's wrong with journalism today
Author of the article:Candice Malcolm
Publishing date:May 29, 2021 • 4 hours ago • 2 minute read • 8 Comments
Everything wrong with journalism today can be summed up in one remarkable news story: the theory that COVID-19 leaked from a lab in China.
In the past seven days, this story has experienced an incredible 180 in terms of its credibility. After nearly 18 months of this theory being thoroughly discredited and debunked by all the fancy people in politics, the media and big tech, it is now suddenly a mainstream theory.
...
But it doesn’t stop there. Some scientists, who are held up by many as being exempt from any political influences, admitted that they purposely avoided examining the lab leak theory sooner simply because prominent conservatives were questioning it.
And, to add insult to injury, social media giants like Facebook admitted that they were hiding posts that talked about the lab link from their algorithm in an effort to stop the spread of “disinformation.”
...
https://torontosun.com/opinion/colu...-flop-shows-whats-wrong-with-journalism-today
Emily
Editor, Senior Moderator
Some think EcoHealth Alliance is being set up to be the next civet cat.
March 21, 2021 WIV page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210321.../Partnerships/
May 1, 2021 WIV page:
https://web.archive.org/web/2021050...n/International_Cooperation2016/Partnerships/
Hat tip: Wuhan Lab Deleted Files Showing Fauci Authorized Funding for Risky Coronavirus Experiments
March 21, 2021 WIV page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210321.../Partnerships/
May 1, 2021 WIV page:
https://web.archive.org/web/2021050...n/International_Cooperation2016/Partnerships/
Hat tip: Wuhan Lab Deleted Files Showing Fauci Authorized Funding for Risky Coronavirus Experiments
Last edited:
Shiloh
Editor, Senior Moderator
TWiV 762: SARS-CoV-2 origins with Robert Garry
May 30, 2021
Robert Garry joins TWiV to explain how the molecular biology of SARS-CoV-2 shows that it came from Nature and not a lab, including the receptor binding domain, the furin cleavage site, and the two lineages circulating in Wuhan wildlife markets.
View at: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-762/
May 30, 2021
Robert Garry joins TWiV to explain how the molecular biology of SARS-CoV-2 shows that it came from Nature and not a lab, including the receptor binding domain, the furin cleavage site, and the two lineages circulating in Wuhan wildlife markets.
View at: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-762/
Pathfinder
Editor, Senior Moderator
Transcript: Scott Gottlieb on "Face the Nation," May 30, 2021
The following is a transcript of an interview with former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb that aired Sunday, May 30, 2021, on "Face the Nation."
...
JOHN DICKERSON:...Why is it that there is now a conversation about how this pandemic started and why is that important?
DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think the challenge is that the side of the ledger that suggests that this could have come- come out of a lab has continued to expand. And a side of the ledger that suggests that this could have come from a zoonotic source, come out of nature, really hasn't budged. And if anything, you can argue that that side of the ledger has contracted because we've done an exhaustive search for the so-called intermediate host, the animal that could have been exposed to this virus before it spread to humans. We have not found such an animal. We've also fully disproven the market, the food market that was initially implicated in the original outbreak as the source of the outbreak. And so that side of the ledger probably has shrunken and China could provide evidence that would be exculpatory here. They could provide the blood samples from those who worked in the lab in Wuhan. They've refused to do that. They could provide the source strain, some of the original strains. They've refused to do that. They can provide access to some of the early samples that we could sequence. They could provide an inventory of what was in the lab, the Institute of Virology, the lab that has been implicated in a potential lab leak. They have refused to do that. And we know that that lab was poorly constructed, had poor controls. That was reported at the time that it was first opened. We know the lab was engaging in very high-risk research, including infecting transgenic animals, animals with fully human immune systems. We know they were working with SARS-like viruses that have never been disclosed before. And now we have new evidence that some lab workers became infected right at the time that this virus was believed to be first introduced. ...
...
DR. GOTTLIEB:... I don't know that we're going to find out with certainty that this came out of a lab. I think we're going to ultimately come up with an assessment and a probability on whether this came out of a lab versus a zoonotic source. And it's going to take some more data to get a better overall assessment in terms of the probability that this could have come out of a lab. But we might get that information.
JOHN DICKERSON: Is it your view that the Chinese know the answer to this question?
DR. GOTTLEIB: They would know the answer to the question because they would have blood samples from the workers in that lab. And that's the evidence that they haven't made public. If- if, in fact, the blood samples show that a high prevalence of people in that lab have been exposed to this virus, that's pretty definitive proof that this coursed through that lab. And they would also have the samples from the time that they were first drawn, which was the time when they had those illnesses. There's no question that when they had an outbreak of an illness in that lab that they would have done routine blood sampling in that lab. That's just normal controls in a lab of that quality. So they would have that information.
...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcr...on-05-30-2021/
The following is a transcript of an interview with former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb that aired Sunday, May 30, 2021, on "Face the Nation."
...
JOHN DICKERSON:...Why is it that there is now a conversation about how this pandemic started and why is that important?
DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I think the challenge is that the side of the ledger that suggests that this could have come- come out of a lab has continued to expand. And a side of the ledger that suggests that this could have come from a zoonotic source, come out of nature, really hasn't budged. And if anything, you can argue that that side of the ledger has contracted because we've done an exhaustive search for the so-called intermediate host, the animal that could have been exposed to this virus before it spread to humans. We have not found such an animal. We've also fully disproven the market, the food market that was initially implicated in the original outbreak as the source of the outbreak. And so that side of the ledger probably has shrunken and China could provide evidence that would be exculpatory here. They could provide the blood samples from those who worked in the lab in Wuhan. They've refused to do that. They could provide the source strain, some of the original strains. They've refused to do that. They can provide access to some of the early samples that we could sequence. They could provide an inventory of what was in the lab, the Institute of Virology, the lab that has been implicated in a potential lab leak. They have refused to do that. And we know that that lab was poorly constructed, had poor controls. That was reported at the time that it was first opened. We know the lab was engaging in very high-risk research, including infecting transgenic animals, animals with fully human immune systems. We know they were working with SARS-like viruses that have never been disclosed before. And now we have new evidence that some lab workers became infected right at the time that this virus was believed to be first introduced. ...
...
DR. GOTTLIEB:... I don't know that we're going to find out with certainty that this came out of a lab. I think we're going to ultimately come up with an assessment and a probability on whether this came out of a lab versus a zoonotic source. And it's going to take some more data to get a better overall assessment in terms of the probability that this could have come out of a lab. But we might get that information.
JOHN DICKERSON: Is it your view that the Chinese know the answer to this question?
DR. GOTTLEIB: They would know the answer to the question because they would have blood samples from the workers in that lab. And that's the evidence that they haven't made public. If- if, in fact, the blood samples show that a high prevalence of people in that lab have been exposed to this virus, that's pretty definitive proof that this coursed through that lab. And they would also have the samples from the time that they were first drawn, which was the time when they had those illnesses. There's no question that when they had an outbreak of an illness in that lab that they would have done routine blood sampling in that lab. That's just normal controls in a lab of that quality. So they would have that information.
...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcr...on-05-30-2021/
Pathfinder
Editor, Senior Moderator
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin's Regular Press Conference on June 1, 2021
...
Bloomberg: The New York Times said in a recent report that critics of US President Joe Biden argued that he had dismissed the possibility that the lab was the origin of the virus until the Chinese government this week rejected allowing further investigation by the WHO. Can the ministry clarify this, has China rejected any further investigation of any type by the WHO?
Wang Wenbin: China has been cooperating with WHO on virus origin-tracing in an open, transparent and responsible manner. While undertaking the daunting task of epidemic response at home, China has twice invited WHO experts in for origin-tracing study, during which international and Chinese experts jointly made field visits, analyzed a large number of data, issued joint mission reports, and reached authoritative, formal and science-based conclusions.
I would like to underscore again that a number of clues, reports and studies suggest that the outbreaks began in multiple locations around the world as early as the second half of 2019. China has made positive contributions to the global efforts of origin-tracing. To further advance this global endeavor, we hope all parties will render full support and cooperation to WHO, so as to find the source of the virus at an early date and put an end to the spread of the epidemic.
...
China News Service: On May 31, the 74th World Health Assembly adopted a resolution submitted by the European Union, calling for a total overhaul of the global alarm system to ensure the adequate, flexible and sustainable financing of WHO's programme budget for a stronger, more independent WHO to help avert future pandemics. What is China's position on this?
Wang Wenbin: As a co-sponsor of the resolution, China has taken an active part in the consultation process. We stand ready to work with all parties to follow through on the spirit of the resolution, and jointly improve the global public health governance system, so as to enable it to better tackle global public health crises, and promote the building of a global community of health for all.
...
China Review News: Some politicians in the US claim that the novel coronavirus was leaked from laboratory and demand an "investigation" in China. What's your comment on this?
Wang Wenbin: China firmly opposes the politicization of virus origin-tracing by some US politicians. Why is it that some in the US are so obsessed with the lab-leak theory when there no evidence to prove that the virus leaked from Chinese laboratories?
To put it bluntly, the purpose of those in the US is to shirk their responsibility of botched response at home and find another excuse to thwart China's development. However, facts have proved that this trick of scapegoating and blame-shifting will only end up hurting the US own interest and the lives and health of the American people. Politicization does nothing but disrupts the international anti-epidemic effort, and will be met with universal rejection by the international community.
Recently, many international experts and scholars have questioned and criticized the US practice of politicizing the issue of origin-tracing. Australian scientist Dominic Dwyer, a member of the WHO expert team, said there was no evidence to back up the lab escape theory. Peter Daszak, a member of the expert team and an American scholar, said that he and other scholars who had been to Wuhan for origin-tracing studies had published a wealth of data supporting a "natural spillover", and pointed out there was a complete lack of data suggesting a lab accident. Daszak dismissed US "intelligence reports" as "political, not scientific". Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, said that "The most frustrating thing about the topic of SARS-CoV-2 origins has been the credulous way the media has treated this as a debate between 2 equally plausible hypotheses. Nope, this is more like the debate over climate change. There's the data and then there's false equivalence." Ethan Siegel, an American science writer, said that conspiracy theories has gained a lot of traction, because "after all, how much more comforting would it be to know that just a handful of evil people - not the politicians who sacrificed their constituents- were ultimately responsible for the tragedies of the past 18 months?"
I would like to reiterate that origin-tracing is a scientific issue. On this issue concerning the health and safety of humanity, we should stay true to the original aspiration of saving lives and getting better prepared to cope with similar public health crisis in the future. We should embark on the path of unity and cooperation instead of instigating confrontation and division. We should rely on science rather than political manipulation. Any attempt to politicize the origin-tracing issue is neither moral nor popular, and will only end in failure.
...
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1880521.shtml
...
Bloomberg: The New York Times said in a recent report that critics of US President Joe Biden argued that he had dismissed the possibility that the lab was the origin of the virus until the Chinese government this week rejected allowing further investigation by the WHO. Can the ministry clarify this, has China rejected any further investigation of any type by the WHO?
Wang Wenbin: China has been cooperating with WHO on virus origin-tracing in an open, transparent and responsible manner. While undertaking the daunting task of epidemic response at home, China has twice invited WHO experts in for origin-tracing study, during which international and Chinese experts jointly made field visits, analyzed a large number of data, issued joint mission reports, and reached authoritative, formal and science-based conclusions.
I would like to underscore again that a number of clues, reports and studies suggest that the outbreaks began in multiple locations around the world as early as the second half of 2019. China has made positive contributions to the global efforts of origin-tracing. To further advance this global endeavor, we hope all parties will render full support and cooperation to WHO, so as to find the source of the virus at an early date and put an end to the spread of the epidemic.
...
China News Service: On May 31, the 74th World Health Assembly adopted a resolution submitted by the European Union, calling for a total overhaul of the global alarm system to ensure the adequate, flexible and sustainable financing of WHO's programme budget for a stronger, more independent WHO to help avert future pandemics. What is China's position on this?
Wang Wenbin: As a co-sponsor of the resolution, China has taken an active part in the consultation process. We stand ready to work with all parties to follow through on the spirit of the resolution, and jointly improve the global public health governance system, so as to enable it to better tackle global public health crises, and promote the building of a global community of health for all.
...
China Review News: Some politicians in the US claim that the novel coronavirus was leaked from laboratory and demand an "investigation" in China. What's your comment on this?
Wang Wenbin: China firmly opposes the politicization of virus origin-tracing by some US politicians. Why is it that some in the US are so obsessed with the lab-leak theory when there no evidence to prove that the virus leaked from Chinese laboratories?
To put it bluntly, the purpose of those in the US is to shirk their responsibility of botched response at home and find another excuse to thwart China's development. However, facts have proved that this trick of scapegoating and blame-shifting will only end up hurting the US own interest and the lives and health of the American people. Politicization does nothing but disrupts the international anti-epidemic effort, and will be met with universal rejection by the international community.
Recently, many international experts and scholars have questioned and criticized the US practice of politicizing the issue of origin-tracing. Australian scientist Dominic Dwyer, a member of the WHO expert team, said there was no evidence to back up the lab escape theory. Peter Daszak, a member of the expert team and an American scholar, said that he and other scholars who had been to Wuhan for origin-tracing studies had published a wealth of data supporting a "natural spillover", and pointed out there was a complete lack of data suggesting a lab accident. Daszak dismissed US "intelligence reports" as "political, not scientific". Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University, said that "The most frustrating thing about the topic of SARS-CoV-2 origins has been the credulous way the media has treated this as a debate between 2 equally plausible hypotheses. Nope, this is more like the debate over climate change. There's the data and then there's false equivalence." Ethan Siegel, an American science writer, said that conspiracy theories has gained a lot of traction, because "after all, how much more comforting would it be to know that just a handful of evil people - not the politicians who sacrificed their constituents- were ultimately responsible for the tragedies of the past 18 months?"
I would like to reiterate that origin-tracing is a scientific issue. On this issue concerning the health and safety of humanity, we should stay true to the original aspiration of saving lives and getting better prepared to cope with similar public health crisis in the future. We should embark on the path of unity and cooperation instead of instigating confrontation and division. We should rely on science rather than political manipulation. Any attempt to politicize the origin-tracing issue is neither moral nor popular, and will only end in failure.
...
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1880521.shtml