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Did I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

liam

Well-known member
I have no medical background other than first aid and first hand experience getting hurt. I have, however, gleaned what I think is the core of the 09 swine flu situation from reading your postings. I present it here as an ?answer? in this discussion section and ask the question ?did I get it right??

I like to condense matters to such essentials that to remove any more would materially misrepresent what is being presented. Then, having established a firm reference point, to protract the implications. Doing so prevents me from getting lost in the details as I can always go back to the beginning to get my direction again.

Only after I have the essence of the matter am I sure I can convey it to others without getting them lost or sidetracked.

Tell me if I have got no more and no less than the core of the situation.
Liam




Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint
1 The 2009 H1N1 swine flu (swine flu from now on) is a new virus in that almost no living persons have immunity to its present form.

2 The historically based expectation is that 33% of the world?s population will become ill from it over the course of its season.
A) Some people will die.
1) Deaths will result from the flu, from the bodies attempt to fight it, from other pre-existing medical conditions and from co-existing/opportunistic infections.
B) Those who recover will do so after a period of incapacitation.

3 The swine flu is not stable. It is changing.
A) As it changes it is possible to get it a second time.
B) The rate of change cannot be predicted, though it is expected to slow and become more stable.
C) The course of change cannot be predicted.
1) The virus can become more / less transmissible. People can become contagious for a longer or shorter period of time.
2) The virus can become more / less deadly.
3) The virus can become more / less severe in its symptoms.
4) The virus may infect for a longer or shorter period of time.

4 The swine flu can co-infect (dual infection). An animal (or person) can have more than one flu infection at the same time, or flu concurrent with another disease.
A) The virus can then trade parts of its make-up with a co-infecting virus like H5N1 (bird flu) which has a higher mortality rate.
1) The virus can take on (a, some, many) characteristics of the other the other virus.

5 The swine flu will be occurring in addition to the seasonal flu, at the same time. Seasonal flu will not take a season off.
A) Swine flu seems to infect age 0<60.
B) Seasonal flu generally is hardest on the oldest and youngest.
C) People may get none, one or both flu?s.
D) They may get them at the same time or one after the other.
E) Absenteeism may reasonably be expected to be much higher than normal.
1) If the flu season(s) spread out in time (best case) this may cause sporadic disruptions in services and deliveries.
2) If the swine flu peaks in a short period of time (as in 1918) it will cause severe disruptions due to absenteeism.
a) The disruptions in services and deliveries will cause life threatening conditions.
b) Disruptions of any kind may cause other disruptions to occur, to become worse or to come sooner. There may be a cascading effect.
c) Service and delivery disruptions will be accompanied by economic hardships.
d) Service and delivery disruptions may be followed by social unrest.
F) Medical services and product availability will be affected by absenteeism and by disruption of other services and deliveries.
 
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Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

I have no medical background other than first aid and first hand experience getting hurt. I have, however, gleaned what I think is the core of the 09 swine flu situation from reading your postings. I present it here as an ?answer? in this discussion section and ask the question ?did I get it right??

The only change I would suggest to your summary is that swine flu seems to be most frequent and most severe in the 5 to 24 age range. I believe the CDC website cites 15 as the median age in the US.
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Hi Liam,

2. - some supposed it could be now (history apart) even 40-50%

5.
A - there were (FT posted) also reported cases of illnessed 60-70-over
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

An excellent summary. You have the basics and all the important points covered. There is some variation in numbers, depending on who you talk to, but thats secondary to the main point.
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

The only change I would suggest to your summary is that swine flu seems to be most frequent and most severe in the 5 to 24 age range. I believe the CDC website cites 15 as the median age in the US.

Hi Liam,

2. - some supposed it could be now (history apart) even 40-50%

5.
A - there were (FT posted) also reported cases of illnessed 60-70-over

Thank you Lizw and tropical.
I think I will write it this way for now. I wanted to differentiate it.
It will clarify itself in the future.

5.
A) Swine flu seems to infect the young, in the prime of life.



Tropical, you may be correct. (33% vs 40-50%)
My purpose in citing the lower historical figure was to insure that I did not give some semi-interested person an excuse to dismiss the whole thing because of one (possibly) overstated figure.



Trying to make sense of this from MSM, 'official' sources and the web was like trying to nail jello to a tree. All I could get was disparate, mutually-exclusive (mutually-contradictory) factoids. Like a detective trying to sort out alibis, I knew I had discovered lies.

The material on this site hung together, though I had to work to understand much of it. I found myself putting together a grasp of the problem in my mind because what you were saying addressed the matter clearly and succinctly. I wrote it out only because it was possible to finally express it coherently. And because it kept rattling around in my head like a tune.

I appreciate your feedback and your hard work. The scope of what has and is being accomplished here is impressive. And minor family squabbles among members do not detract from that. That the members have a purpose in sorting and providing accurate information is evident.
Thanks
Liam
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Welcome Liam,

You have the basics down pretty good but are off the mark in many respects.

Overall marks are "A" on the whole, so well done.

The A/ (novel)H1N1 "swine flu" is one that no human has immunity to and it is spreading across the globe in pandemic fashion, hence its being declared a pandemic by the WHO.

It is a mild disease among some populations and severe among others. This is an anomaly. By this I mean it is not understood why the same virus was severe in Mexico and among Canada's First Nations (aboriginal peoples) yet relatively but not entirely mild among those of European decent living in North America.

While the current novel strain has been described as both "mild" and "moderate" in severity by North American and WHO public health officials, what the future holds for this virus is not known.

There is speculation that the novel strain could pick up additional genetic material from other human adapted flu strains or indeed from the feared avian H5N1 strain that could result in it becoming much more severe in the future. What future? the up coming fall in the northern hemisphere.

It is not likely that the novel strain will become less severe in the near future although if it indeed becomes the dominate human adapted influenza strain in the somewhat distant future, it will appear to be so. This is not because it has weakened but rather because all susceptible humans have been infected with it and have established immunity to it or are dead. If or when this happens, the novel strain will vary its genetic content in the crafty way all dominate influenza strains have always done to make it more infective to humanity. It does this by two means known as "drift and shift". By drift is meant small changes and by shift is meant larger changes.

Anyway, this is a long and very interesting story. Welcome to the quest.

Grattan Woodson, MD
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Welcome, Liam.
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Thank you doctor and thanks for the welcome colormyquilt.

I was trying to get the salient points down on one page per Blanchard in "The One Minute Manager". Given that peoples attention span is calibrated to sound bites a one page summery seemed a good compromise.

I wanted a single page that I could hand to an uninformed person that they could read in such a short time that it would be obviously impolite if they blew it off. And afterwards they would have enough information that they would have to decide how they were going to act. Either they ask how to learn more or they say they DO NOT want to know any more. But they at least have enough information to make that decision.

Those of you on this forum provide a great service.

Thank you for your responses.
Liam
 
Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Re: Dud I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

Great job! Very well done.

Most humans will not have much immunity to this novel virus, but those born before 1957 appear to have some protection.

And while absenteeism due to employee illness may be manageable by many firms and governmental entities that provide critical infrastructure services, the closure of schools will have an immediate and significant impact that is problematic.

The future of this virus is unpredictable. It may die out, it may become less severe, or it may get really nasty. Anyone that gives you a firm answer is likely suspect as to their professional qualifications in the field.
 
Re: Did I get It Right? Swine Flu, a Layman?s Viewpoint

You got it! Better than 99.9% of the people on this planet.

Snick
 
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