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Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Tolenio, I found that article as well. It doesn't fit however as the only group tested was the elderly. While it indicates there is a problem of low vit D levels in 7 cities in Argentina, it doesn't measure the levels in those who are young, healthy and/or pregnant. As the city affected is on approx. the same latitude as is Los Angeles, Ca., it is not impacted with the extremely high latitudes we see in the target population in Canada. Neither is there any indication of a changed diet which may negatively impact the vit D levels. And lastly, the indigenous population does not appear to be the primary victims. Low levels of Vit. D is a worldwide problem among the elderly.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Welcome Tom,
Agree with the smoking - interesting idea. Perhaps there is a lot of smog? Terrible state of affairs so many people ill.

Wonderful research, by the way, Shannon and everyone. Thank you very much.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

tolenio, now that is a BINGO post. Now the burning question is why.

Okay, I spoke too soon. Ushuaia, is in thesouthernmost part of Argentina. It states that the D levels are low there in pregnant women and neonates in Ushuaia not in B.E.. Ushuaia is not where the H1N1 infections are occurring.

[snip]
In Ushuaia pregnant women and their neonates had a deficient nutritional state of vitamin D. Preventive administration of vitamin D would probably be beneficial.
[snip]
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

I was thinking along the same lines about the differences between St. Theresa Point (northern Manitoba) and Mexico city. And now the difference between Manitoba and Argentina.

Don't we have 2 distinct processes going on? Two major factors affecting the severity of the influenza in the northern MB and Mexico/Argentina populations? The former may be vit D insufficiency not limiting the cytokine storm; the latter, huge pollution problems creating major pre-existing conditions that affect the body differently.

My simple understanding of this discussion is that vit D may lessen severity; it's not a vaccine.

All the vit D in the world won't help people who are simply too sick, from other causes, to combat the viral invasion.

J.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Cartski, you are of course correct. This thread however, was to see if we could find a link between vit D and a higher infection rate. While the higher vit D rate may still be a valid risk factor, it probably isn't the reason Buenos Aries is suddenly seeing a huge number of cases.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Yeah, sorry, I get that now. I can't keep up today - I forgot my glasses and the screen is smudging too much from my nose.:(

J.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

55 South compares to these northern latitude cities: Belfast, Ireland; Grand Prairie, Alberta; Copenhagen, Denmark; & Moscow, Russia.

.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

During the winter at latitudes above ~35 degrees, there is minimal if any previtamin D3 production in the skin
Click to expand...

That line puts most of USA, Canada, Japan, Russia, & Europe in the winter-low category.

.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Mercury => emphysema ?? Coal, gold production, pollution vs. whitefish, soil erosion, downstream dam impacts ?
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

I am very impressed by the exceptional exploration of the vitamin D issue and its possible relationship to susceptibility to influenza that has progresses since I last visited yesterday.

I think it was particularly brilliant to consider conditions present in the southern hemisphere most particularly Argentina since that country has a very sophisticated medical system, advanced medical research techniques and good vitamin D data on some of its people.

I thought it was astute to compare what was happening in the south American hemisphere with what is being seen in the northern. Thanks Shannon.

After reading these posts and the relevant abstracts, it is my impression that vitamin D deficiency is highly prevalent in Argentina irrespective of latitude. Of course we know in the absence of supplementation, latitude and sun exposure are the keys to vitamin D levels.

Shannon has pointed out that most of the cases of novel influenza have been reported in the capital Buenos Aires, which is located at latitude 34 degrees south. This latitude gets lots of sun year round so the lack of available sunlight is not a reason for people living there to be vitamin D deficient. OTHO, latitude 55 degrees south is really high and people living there will have a hard time getting enough vitamin D from sun exposure unless they spend a lot of time outside with more than a little skin exposed to the sun.

People living at this and higher southern latitudes are subject to the same environmental influences as those experienced by Canada?s First Nations. What?s more, to the extent that those that live in this region of Argentina are of aboriginal decent, then there are both environmental as well as genetic similarities.

However, what we know from Shannon?s reports is that most of the reported cases have been in the capital where they have plenty of sunshine both in winter and summer. It is the equivalent of Atlanta, GA an area on this planet I know well and can attest that at 33 degrees north; we have lots of sun year round. Of course the same occurs at 34 degrees south.

In Atlanta, 14% of white postmenopausal women and 25% of African American women are vitamin D deficient. It is likely that the same is true for those postmenopausal women living in Buenos Aires since these groups both share similar culture and habits. I don?t think the high incidence of vitamin D deficiency seen in Atlanta and in Argentina is primarily the result of the use of sunscreens. Certainly this is a contributing factor in women of all ethnic backgrounds for complex reasons. Rather I think it is due to sun avoidance together with lifestyle and work environments common today that do not require people of higher socioeconomic class than was common in past centuries to work in the sun.

While most of the cases in Argentina have been reported from the capital, maybe this is because the effectiveness of the medical and civil service professionals operating there are world class while those practicing elsewhere in the country are not afforded the same advantages. What?s more, as suggested by Shannon, we don?t really know where within the capital or who has been affected most severely?

This is important because it is possible that there is both an ethnic as well a vitamin D aspect that affects susceptibility to the novel strain.

Grattan Woodson, MD
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

I am unclear from all of this Vitamin D discussion as to whether Vitamin D simply fills cellular receptors (thus somehow possibly reducing the chances of a cytokine storm), but Would that make Vitamin D immune system stimulating?

If Vitamin D is immune stimulating (?????), in all likelihood taking it is not prudent or advisable for those with auto-immune disorders and already over-active immune systems. Just a thought, as some reading this may not have considered some of the implications, and the science/medicine on this is beyond my knowledge base. Saying that, I really don't know, so will defer to those who do know.
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Rickets - at Island Lake in Manitoba:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1490697

CMAJ. 1986 February 1; 134(3): 237?241. PMCID: PMC1490697


Vitamin-D-deficient rickets in Manitoba, 1972-84.

J C Haworth and L A Dilling


Abstract

Vitamin-D-deficient rickets still exists in children in Manitoba and adjacent areas. Between 1972 and 1984, 48 cases were documented at Winnipeg Children's Hospital.

The patients ranged in age from 1 to 49 months; 40 were Canadian natives (38 Indians and 2 Inuit), most of whom lived in the Island Lake area of northern Manitoba.

Of the 48, 16 had clinical signs of rickets, 12 had tetany due to hypocalcemia and 38 had radiologic evidence of rickets. Hypocalcemia was found in 27, and hypophosphatemia in 19; hyperaminoaciduria was found in 7 of 20. All 48 had elevated serum alkaline phosphatase levels. In addition to rickets, 16 patients aged 12 months or more had evidence of malnutrition.

Climate and lifestyle in northern areas of the Canadian midwest result in little or no biosynthesis of vitamin D by solar radiation; therefore, adequate dietary vitamin D intake is essential to prevent deficiency. The diets of pregnant women and infants in these areas are deficient in vitamin D. The authors recommend vitamin D supplements for all pregnant women and infants in areas of risk to eradicate this preventable disease.

And from the text....

Between 1972 and 1974 we conducted a nutrition survey in 539
preschool Indian children in two northern Manitoba communities, Cross Lake and Garden Hill,7 and found that the vitamin D intake of 70% of the
children did not meet the Canadian dietary standard. 15 An intake less than one fifth of the standard was found in 13% of the children at Cross Lake and in 35% of those at Garden Hill. Three cases of rickets were found at Garden Hill, on Island Lake, where over one third of the children
in this report lived.

[Garden Hill is directly accross the lake from St. Theresa Point. Cross Lake is north west, along the Nelson River]


And look at the note-up.....


Nutritional Problems of Native Canadian Mothers and Children
Michael E.K. Moffatt
Can Fam Physician. 1989 February; 35: 377?382.
PMCID: PMC2280257


Vitamin D supplementation for northern native communities. Indian and Inuit Health Committee, Canadian Paediatric Society.
CMAJ. 1988 February 1; 138(3): 229?230.
PMCID: PMC1267584


The health of children of low-income families.
C P Shah, M Kahan, and J Krauser
CMAJ. 1987 September 15; 137(6): 485?490.
PMCID: PMC1492696
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

Circulating Vitamin D (actually it's not a vitamin, it's a hormone) is impacted by Vitamin D receptors (VDR). Since vitamin D levels impact: TB, HIV, cancer, immune system, diabetes, varioius metabolic disorders, cardiovascular disease, bone density, stature, rickets, leprosy, etc., etc., any abnormalites in these receptors are often related to these diseases. The VDR is a range of polymorphisms with many possible combinations which can be related to various diseases.

One of MANY resources:

Clin Chim Acta. 2006 Sep;371(1-2):1-12. Epub 2006 Mar 6. Links

Vitamin D receptor polymorphisms and diseases.

Valdivielso JM, Fernandez E.
Laboratorio de Investigación HUAV-UDL, Hospital Universitario Arnau de Vilanova, Rovira Roure 80, 25198, Lleida, Spain. Valdivielso@medicina.udl.es

The vitamin D endocrine system is central to the control of bone and calcium homeostasis. Thus, alterations in the vitamin D pathway lead to disturbances in mineral metabolism. Furthermore, a role for vitamin D has been suggested in other diseases, like cancer, diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Expression and nuclear activation of the vitamin D receptor (VDR) are necessary for the effects of vitamin D. Several genetic variations have been identified in the VDR. DNA sequence variations, which occur frequently in the population, are referred to as "polymorphisms" and can have biological effects. To test whether there is a linkage between VDR polymorphisms and diseases, epidemiological studies are performed. In these studies, the presence of a variation of the gene is studied in a population of patients, and then compared to a control group. Thus, association studies are performed, and a link among gene polymorphisms and diseases can be established. Since the discovery of VDR polymorphisms a number of papers have been published studying its role in bone biology, renal diseases, diabetes, etc. The purpose of this review is to summarize the vast amount of information regarding vitamin D receptor polymorphisms and human diseases, and discuss its possible role as diagnostic tools.

PMID: 16563362 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16563362

Ethnic susceptibility to some diseases are being traced to variations in VDR polymorphisms. See (among many):
Indian Journal of Human Genetics, Vol. 9, No. 2, July-Dec, 2003, pp. 51-54

Study of vitamin-D receptor (VDR) gene start codon polymorphism (Fok I) in healthy individuals from North India

H. K. Bid, R. D. Mittal

Department of Urology, Sanjay Gandhi Post Graduate Institute of Medical Sciences, Lucknow - 226014, India.
Address for correspondence: R. D. Mittal, Additional Professor, Department of Urology, Sanjay Gandhi Postgraduate Institute of Medical Sciences, Lucknow - 226014, India. E-mail: rmittal@sgpgi.ac.in

The vitamin D receptor (VDR) gene Fok I polymorphism represents a strong positional candidate susceptibility gene for different diseases like Prostate cancer, Urolithiasis, Inflammatory bowl disease and Osteoporosis. This genetic variation has also been of great interest due to its possible association with polygenic diseases. Allelic frequencies of the F/f start codon polymorphism of VDR gene vary among populations but there is no data regarding its distribution from India. The present study was carried out to determine the normal distribution of VDR gene Fok I polymorphism by using a PCR-based restriction analysis in unrelated normal healthy individuals from North India. We obtained an allelic frequency of 71.5% and 28.5% for (F) and (f) allele and the percentage of genotypes FF, Ff and ff as 46%, 51% and 3% respectively. Our results suggest that the frequency and distribution of this polymorphism in Indian population is substantially different from other populations and ethenic groups.

(snipped)

Discussion

SNPs are scattered throughout the genome and high degree of variability makes these informative genetic markers useful for disease susceptibility. VDR is known to regulate cell proliferation, calcium absorption from the gut, and cell differentiation and may also influence androgen and estrogen activation. The action of VDR is not only up regulated by vitamin D but also by protein kinase A, parathyroid hormone and growth factors. Any defect in the VDR gene could modulate the metabolism of calcium thereby increasing the risk of developing different diseases e.g. osteoporosis and calcium stones. The VDR gene Fok-1 polymorphism has been widely used as a genetic marker for diseases related to calcium metabolism. In this study we have reported the distribution of VDR Fok-1 genotypes in different populations worldwide and compared with our population. The frequency of the individual alleles varies among different ethnic or geographic populations shown in (Table 2) but allele (F) is more common than allele (f) in different populations including ours. Genotype (FF) was significant for populations in Finland, Australia and Black Pennsylvania (P<0.05). However for the rest of the populations P-values were nonsignificant. Genotype (Ff) was not significant for all the comparable populations (P>0.05) except Black Pennsylvania (P<0.05). Genotype (ff) was significantly different in all the populations except Black Pennsylvania and north Indian population when allelic frequencies (F & f) of VDR gene in different populations were compared; Finland, Australia and White Massachusetts were significantly different.

In the present analysis, variation at VDR gene was measured solely on the basis of PCR-RFLP of the basic core sequence. Due to their highly polymorphic content, SNPs constitute useful tools in population genetic studies in understanding population and ethnic variations. As there are large differences in allele frequency and distribution of genotypes of VDR (Fok I) SNP, it would be quite helpful to find out any linkage disequilibrium in individuals from other ethnic groups. Allelic association studies are in progress with several chronic inflammatory and degenerative diseases in which VDR may be involved. In the long run, these studies may help in determining disease susceptibility and clinical management of patients.

http://www.bioline.org.br/request?hg03011


What I take away from the reading I've done recently about VDRs and Vitamin D levels, is that variables in Vitamin D utilization/availabiity has many sources: sunlight, diet, supplementation, genetics, VDR abnormalities, etc. So it's especially important that Vitamin D be considered as a factor in many diseases.

.
 
Last edited:
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

tolenio,
I finally finished watching that video after many interruptions.
It was fabulous!
Thank you for posting the link!
:applause:
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

High Risk said:
I am unclear from all of this Vitamin D discussion as to whether Vitamin D simply fills cellular receptors (thus somehow possibly reducing the chances of a cytokine storm), but Would that make Vitamin D immune system stimulating?

If Vitamin D is immune stimulating (?????), in all likelihood taking it is not prudent or advisable for those with auto-immune disorders and already over-active immune systems. Just a thought, as some reading this may not have considered some of the implications, and the science/medicine on this is beyond my knowledge base. Saying that, I really don't know, so will defer to those who do know.
Click to expand...

These questions are at the heart of the vitamin D issue High Risk and are key to one aspect of understanding the health effects of this substance.

What steroid hormones like vitamin D do is enter the cell, bind to DNA and effect changes in the behavior of the cell.

What most steroid hormones like estrogen, androgen, and vitamin D all have in common is to drive the cell to become differentiated meaning more developed alone its natural genetic path.

Immune cells have vitamin D receptors and depend on this hormone to fully express their phenotype or true self so to speak. When vitamin D is deficient, these cells remain in a less than fully expressed state. In other words, they act in adolescent ways rather than in adult ones.

Just as an adolescent can be both like and unlike an adult, the immune cell deprived of the influence of vitamin D does not behave in a completely normal fashion. It is the opinion of many very astute and learned researchers like Dr. Michael Holick, one of the leading lights in this regard, that many diseases including psoriasis, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, and a variety of infectious diseases are contributed to by deficiency both during inter uterine life and childhood as well as in adulthood.

What we do not know is will replacement of vitamin D after the fact of the damage done early in life can help reverse the impact of these chronic autoimmune diseases that appear many years later.

With regard to chronic infections with tuberculosis, it is pretty clear that treatment of patients with this condition with antibiotics is greatly improved when they have adequate serum levels of vitamin D.

What I want to caution everyone about is that we do not know if taking 5000iu or 10,000iu of vitamin D daily is of any benefit for the autoimmune disorders mentioned above and this is not being recommended at this point.

It may be that these future conditions can be prevented only during prenatal life and while this possibility may be disappointing to those of us with them today, what we can rejoice in is the very hopeful possibility that ensuring that women who plan to become pregnant have healthy vitamin D levels prior to becoming pregnant. If so and the notions presented above are indeed proven true, then this could be of inestimatible benifits to all human generations to come.

While this may sound extreme, just two decades ago it was discovered that spina bifida in children was due to folic acid deficiency in their mothers. The nearly universal policy of administering this vitamin to women prior and during pregnancy has virtually eliminated this curse of humankind that has haunted our species for countless millennium.

So, we must not count out the potential health benefits of ensuring that women planning to become pregnant have healthy vitamin D levels and that they continue to do so through the pregnancy and during lactation. Of course, since there are considerable benefits for everyone to maintain healthy levels of vitamin D throughout life, having healthy vitamin D levels for all people from the cradle to the grave would be a very sensible policy.

Grattan Woodson, MD
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

tolenio said:
Hello,

Dr. Michael Holick did a nice presentation on vitamin D. He is a little over the top in his presentation, but his data is valid.

Vitamin D and Prevention of Chronic Diseases
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq1t9WqOD-0


http://www.vitamindhealth.org/
Michael F. Holick, PhD, MD
Professor of Medicine, Physiology and Biophysics
Director of the General Clinical Research Center
Director of the Vitamin D, Skin and Bone Research Laboratory
Director, Biologic Effects of Light Research Center
Boston University Medical Center

Later,
Tom
Click to expand...

Thanks for the YouTube link Tom.

Dr. Holick is among the giants in bone and mineral metabolism world. He is internationally known and universally respected by the best minds in this field most particularly those that concentrate on vitamin D as their passion. Dr. Holick is someone who has devoted his life to the study of vitamin D and its use for the benefit on humankind.

I enjoyed the YouTube presentation very much. It is packed with key insights only someone of his erudition and intelligence and yes showmanship could present in a way that the intelligent non-scientist could understand. Please understand that Dr. Holick was speaking to a general college audience, not a group of bone heads. He speaks to bone heads all the time at major international meetings and when he does, his presentations are focused at their level.

What makes Dr. Holick a gifted teacher is his unique ability to share his profound insights with his students in a way that is clear without sacrificing their significance. As in the YouTube video, his signature technique employs both humor and humility to make what many regard incorrectly as a mundane topic very interesting and exciting.

If you are interested in becoming better informed about vitamin D and its role in human health and disease, I agree with toleno that this YouTube video is a great resource and one I highly recommend for everyone be they an expert or novice.

Grattan Woodson, MD
 
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?

cartski said:
Rickets - at Island Lake in Manitoba:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1490697

CMAJ. 1986 February 1; 134(3): 237?241. PMCID: PMC1490697


Vitamin-D-deficient rickets in Manitoba, 1972-84.

J C Haworth and L A Dilling


Abstract

Vitamin-D-deficient rickets still exists in children in Manitoba and adjacent areas. Between 1972 and 1984, 48 cases were documented at Winnipeg Children's Hospital.

The patients ranged in age from 1 to 49 months; 40 were Canadian natives (38 Indians and 2 Inuit), most of whom lived in the Island Lake area of northern Manitoba.

Of the 48, 16 had clinical signs of rickets, 12 had tetany due to hypocalcemia and 38 had radiologic evidence of rickets. Hypocalcemia was found in 27, and hypophosphatemia in 19; hyperaminoaciduria was found in 7 of 20. All 48 had elevated serum alkaline phosphatase levels. In addition to rickets, 16 patients aged 12 months or more had evidence of malnutrition.

Climate and lifestyle in northern areas of the Canadian midwest result in little or no biosynthesis of vitamin D by solar radiation; therefore, adequate dietary vitamin D intake is essential to prevent deficiency. The diets of pregnant women and infants in these areas are deficient in vitamin D. The authors recommend vitamin D supplements for all pregnant women and infants in areas of risk to eradicate this preventable disease.

And from the text....

Between 1972 and 1974 we conducted a nutrition survey in 539
preschool Indian children in two northern Manitoba communities, Cross Lake and Garden Hill,7 and found that the vitamin D intake of 70% of the
children did not meet the Canadian dietary standard. 15 An intake less than one fifth of the standard was found in 13% of the children at Cross Lake and in 35% of those at Garden Hill. Three cases of rickets were found at Garden Hill, on Island Lake, where over one third of the children
in this report lived.

[Garden Hill is directly accross the lake from St. Theresa Point. Cross Lake is north west, along the Nelson River]


And look at the note-up.....


Nutritional Problems of Native Canadian Mothers and Children
Michael E.K. Moffatt
Can Fam Physician. 1989 February; 35: 377?382.
PMCID: PMC2280257


Vitamin D supplementation for northern native communities. Indian and Inuit Health Committee, Canadian Paediatric Society.
CMAJ. 1988 February 1; 138(3): 229?230.
PMCID: PMC1267584


The health of children of low-income families.
C P Shah, M Kahan, and J Krauser
CMAJ. 1987 September 15; 137(6): 485?490.
PMCID: PMC1492696
Click to expand...

This data is disturbing. It is very clear that as the First Nations people's diet has been become less traditional, it has also become significantly more vitamin D deficient to the point that this disorder was highly prevalent among the majority of those living in the reservations sampled between 1972 and 1984.

What's more a number of peer reviewed medical articles have been referenced in this thread by FT members documenting that vitamin D deficiency continues to be highly prevalent both in Canada's aboriginal population as well as other populations in Argentina.

Chronic vitamin D deficiency among a population is a very effective way for them to become extinct. Since the medical consequences of vitamin D is becoming better understood and the extent of it within the residents of the First Nations reservations comes to light, what is apparent is that we are witnessing the realization that a public health emergency is and has been present within this population today and has been so for many years.

Once this is known, if we fail to respond to it appropriately then to the extent that these people have a special status within the nations they live in constitutes IMO a form of indirect genocide. Why? Because these peoples have been placed in a state of dependence by the state and due to this, those that bear this responsibility are also those within the state that by statute are tasked with ensuring the health and safety of these groups.

Ultimately however, the actions of the state in a democracy is the responsibility of the people. This includes both acts of commission as well as acts of omission. Simply stated then, it is the people of Canada and every country with similar social situations that indirectly promote the extinction of a defined group within their society are those ultimately responsible for this genocide.

I understand this is a hard statement but ask that each of us within societies where events similar to that described above is taking place to give this serious consideration. If you agree that this is a serious problem in your country, one way to act ethically is to contact your elected representative and let him or her know what you think about this.

It is pretty obvious that First Nations people whose diet has strayed from the traditional one simply can not get enough vitamin D from the sun to compensate. The only logical answer I can conceive of to remedy this very destructive nutritional issue is for everyone living at latitudes above 35 degrees both north and south supplement their diet with vitamin D.

The data suggest that the level of supplementation should be in the range of 3500iu to 10,000iu daily. One unanswered question is whether it is best to supplement with vitamin D2 or D3.

Many well informed scientists I have spoken to about this very recently in regard to this specific issue think vitamin D3 is better but I am not yet convinced.

What seems clear though is that very few people get enough vitamin D from the sun or their diet for optimal health. This is especially true of those living at the higher latitudes. There is no question that these people are well advise to begin vitamin D supplementation at the 5000iu per day dose level. It is not known if this will be enough but it is not too much and there is lots of data that support this level of supplementation is safe for most people but not everyone. Please read the caveats above earlier on this thread that specify who should not try to do this on their own.

Grattan Woodson, MD
 
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