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Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
- Thread starter The Mountains Voice
- Start date
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Was thinking that maybe a round of probiotics along with daily vit d would be of great benefit.
Seems that intraphagocytic bacteria are able to block the Vitamin D receptor leading to decreased vitamin d levels therefore inhibiting immunity.
Read an article that this study was done by Trevor Marshall PHD.
]
Was thinking that maybe a round of probiotics along with daily vit d would be of great benefit.
Seems that intraphagocytic bacteria are able to block the Vitamin D receptor leading to decreased vitamin d levels therefore inhibiting immunity.
Read an article that this study was done by Trevor Marshall PHD.
Last edited by a moderator:
sharon sanders
Editor-in-Chief & President
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Bump this.
Bump this.
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Greetings,
I just spent a few hours catching up on this very interesting thread. I've actually been researching a couple of side topics regarding D3 and the flu. I have come up short in my quest for information. My hope is somone here may be able to shed some light on the subject for me.
Dr. Cannell has said in a video that he believes supplementing with small amounts of D3 could in fact cause a cytokine storm if the amounts of D3 are not high enough. In other words someone taking only 2,000 IU of D3 a day may actually help to induce a cytokine storm versus someone not taking any D3 or someone taking 5,000 IU a day or higher. I have not seen this come up anywhere else. Does anyone have anymore information regarding this or is it just a theory at this point?
Hydrochlorothiazide and Vitamin D??? I spoke with my family doctor and asked if 5,000 IU a day was ok since I take the above mentioned diuretic for high blood pressure. He told me to go ahead and have a ball, said if I was concerned we could check my blood pressure in a few months. Well that right there concerned me since the combo doesn't affect blood pressure but rather is reported to cause hypercalcemia. When I told him this he laughed.
There is very little out there regarding D3 and diuretics. Has anyone run into this obstacle?
My search has been endless for the above two issues, so any info, no matter how small would be very, very welcome.
-Mike
Greetings,
I just spent a few hours catching up on this very interesting thread. I've actually been researching a couple of side topics regarding D3 and the flu. I have come up short in my quest for information. My hope is somone here may be able to shed some light on the subject for me.
Dr. Cannell has said in a video that he believes supplementing with small amounts of D3 could in fact cause a cytokine storm if the amounts of D3 are not high enough. In other words someone taking only 2,000 IU of D3 a day may actually help to induce a cytokine storm versus someone not taking any D3 or someone taking 5,000 IU a day or higher. I have not seen this come up anywhere else. Does anyone have anymore information regarding this or is it just a theory at this point?
Hydrochlorothiazide and Vitamin D??? I spoke with my family doctor and asked if 5,000 IU a day was ok since I take the above mentioned diuretic for high blood pressure. He told me to go ahead and have a ball, said if I was concerned we could check my blood pressure in a few months. Well that right there concerned me since the combo doesn't affect blood pressure but rather is reported to cause hypercalcemia. When I told him this he laughed.
There is very little out there regarding D3 and diuretics. Has anyone run into this obstacle?
My search has been endless for the above two issues, so any info, no matter how small would be very, very welcome.
-Mike
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Mcatucci - I'm sorry that I cannot give you a definitive answer or reference, but I believe that your concern re:diuretics and vitamin D is valid. My Dr. has been a big promoter of vitamin D normalization, but she is careful about a person's mineral status when she starts us on vitamin D3. Because I tend to lose magnesium due to issues other than yours, she has me supplementing with a relatively small amount of calcium citrate and magnesium glycinate as well as the vitamin D3. She also retests me regularly. Since diuretics can cause excretion of important minerals, and up until now most people have not been taking the larger doses of D3, I see a potential problem here too.
Mcatucci - I'm sorry that I cannot give you a definitive answer or reference, but I believe that your concern re:diuretics and vitamin D is valid. My Dr. has been a big promoter of vitamin D normalization, but she is careful about a person's mineral status when she starts us on vitamin D3. Because I tend to lose magnesium due to issues other than yours, she has me supplementing with a relatively small amount of calcium citrate and magnesium glycinate as well as the vitamin D3. She also retests me regularly. Since diuretics can cause excretion of important minerals, and up until now most people have not been taking the larger doses of D3, I see a potential problem here too.
somebodyoutthere
Well-known member
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
What if you drink a lot of caffeine and take medication that is drying (like, say, adhd medication or antihistamines)? Should that person be getting tested for mineral status (and what kind of tests would that involve)?
What if you drink a lot of caffeine and take medication that is drying (like, say, adhd medication or antihistamines)? Should that person be getting tested for mineral status (and what kind of tests would that involve)?
Niko
Editor, Senior Moderator
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Thank you for that question. I hope someone has an answer, since I too take meds that are extremely drying and drink ~4 cups of coffee/day.
Thank you for that question. I hope someone has an answer, since I too take meds that are extremely drying and drink ~4 cups of coffee/day.
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Where was this statement made? Which video?
This doesn't make sense based on the early posts in this thread.
J.
Where was this statement made? Which video?
This doesn't make sense based on the early posts in this thread.
J.
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Can't find the video but here are the statements on his website.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/h1n1-flu-and-vitamin-d.shtml
He mentions it several times. His fear is that taking only 1,000 to 2,000 IU's may not be enough and will actually cause the cytokine storm. I'll paste it here...
"For reasons I will discuss below, I think it possible that Vitamin D levels of 30 ng/mL, which are often obtained by people taking low doses of Vitamin D (1,000–2,000 IU/day), may increase your risk of death from a 1918-like influenza virus."
"As I have written before, 25(OH)D levels are like water from a mountain spring. The topmost pool is the calcium economy. When that pool is full, excess 25(OH)D flows down to hundreds of pools below, cancer, heart disease, infection, etc. In a lethal pandemic, you want Vitamin D to do two things, increase production of natural antibiotics (AMPs) and quell excessive immune responses. Are these two pools at the same level? Is the AMP pool above the cytokine dampening pool? If so, people with 25(OH)D levels of 30 ng/mL may have enough D to strengthen their innate immunity but not enough to prevent the cytokine storm that kills in a lethal pandemic. Thus, people taking only 1,000–2,000 IU/day, with levels around 30 ng/mL, may risk death from a cytokine storm their body is unable to prevent. While only a theory, it would explain why the people with the allegedly highest 25(OH)D levels in both Mexico and 1918 (young adults) were the most likely to die. That is why I caution people that, if you are going to take Vitamin D, take enough, take 5,000 IU/day, which is usually enough to get your 25(OH)D levels into the mid range of the reference range (30–100 ng/mL), which would be 50–70 ng/mL."
Can't find the video but here are the statements on his website.
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/h1n1-flu-and-vitamin-d.shtml
He mentions it several times. His fear is that taking only 1,000 to 2,000 IU's may not be enough and will actually cause the cytokine storm. I'll paste it here...
"For reasons I will discuss below, I think it possible that Vitamin D levels of 30 ng/mL, which are often obtained by people taking low doses of Vitamin D (1,000–2,000 IU/day), may increase your risk of death from a 1918-like influenza virus."
"As I have written before, 25(OH)D levels are like water from a mountain spring. The topmost pool is the calcium economy. When that pool is full, excess 25(OH)D flows down to hundreds of pools below, cancer, heart disease, infection, etc. In a lethal pandemic, you want Vitamin D to do two things, increase production of natural antibiotics (AMPs) and quell excessive immune responses. Are these two pools at the same level? Is the AMP pool above the cytokine dampening pool? If so, people with 25(OH)D levels of 30 ng/mL may have enough D to strengthen their innate immunity but not enough to prevent the cytokine storm that kills in a lethal pandemic. Thus, people taking only 1,000–2,000 IU/day, with levels around 30 ng/mL, may risk death from a cytokine storm their body is unable to prevent. While only a theory, it would explain why the people with the allegedly highest 25(OH)D levels in both Mexico and 1918 (young adults) were the most likely to die. That is why I caution people that, if you are going to take Vitamin D, take enough, take 5,000 IU/day, which is usually enough to get your 25(OH)D levels into the mid range of the reference range (30–100 ng/mL), which would be 50–70 ng/mL."
Niko
Editor, Senior Moderator
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Is this the video you had in mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE
Is this the video you had in mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--NqqB2nhBE
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
I find this very concerning. My family have been taking 1000 iu D3 per day for the last month or more as I thought it was a sensible precaution to build up the D3. Now it is indicated that this may be doing more harm than good in my three sons in their late teens, early twenties. To take 5000 iu is 5 tablets per day (I can ony find 1000iu tablets) - I don't think my family will agree to this. I have one son doing a "year-out" in Germany - teaching in a secondary school! He is definately susceptible to catching this virus.
Bit of a Catch22 arising in my mind.
Can anybody else express further thoughts on this matter?
I find this very concerning. My family have been taking 1000 iu D3 per day for the last month or more as I thought it was a sensible precaution to build up the D3. Now it is indicated that this may be doing more harm than good in my three sons in their late teens, early twenties. To take 5000 iu is 5 tablets per day (I can ony find 1000iu tablets) - I don't think my family will agree to this. I have one son doing a "year-out" in Germany - teaching in a secondary school! He is definately susceptible to catching this virus.
Bit of a Catch22 arising in my mind.
Can anybody else express further thoughts on this matter?
AlaskaDenise
In Memoriam
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
It didn't say not taking enough would cause a cytokine storm!
Best advice is still to get your D levels tested and do whatever is necessary to get into the 50-80ng/mL range, then retest if necessary.
.
It didn't say not taking enough would cause a cytokine storm!
Best advice is still to get your D levels tested and do whatever is necessary to get into the 50-80ng/mL range, then retest if necessary.
.
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
#325: "To take 5000 iu is 5 tablets per day (I can ony find 1000iu tablets) - I don't think my family will agree to this."
The #326 suggestion is reasonable.
Stil, droping in 5 tablets per day of whatsoever is challenging.
Once, it were only the daily meals, pure water intake (not everywhere), pure air and normal filtered sun. Now we have all of the above altered, and a need for artifact tablets of vitamins, minerals, etc.
It seems an 21 century blowing of un-naturals.
If vitD3 is urgently needed, it must be recommended from "above" health vertics and inserted, as it was by iodine and salt.
If that move is postponed, is it better to stick on without tablet dropings, or this non-instructions are missleading because of what reasons?: conspirative?; oportunistic?; handwashing?; ...
Do we start droping in vitamin pills (as did some folks) of: C-vit, D3vit, A-vit, ... vit ...
with no clear official worldwide guideliness = if the vitD3 levels are normal range, additional intake is an private decision only,
with an accepted potential body endangering or maybe contrary, a healing ...
#325: "To take 5000 iu is 5 tablets per day (I can ony find 1000iu tablets) - I don't think my family will agree to this."
The #326 suggestion is reasonable.
Stil, droping in 5 tablets per day of whatsoever is challenging.
Once, it were only the daily meals, pure water intake (not everywhere), pure air and normal filtered sun. Now we have all of the above altered, and a need for artifact tablets of vitamins, minerals, etc.
It seems an 21 century blowing of un-naturals.
If vitD3 is urgently needed, it must be recommended from "above" health vertics and inserted, as it was by iodine and salt.
If that move is postponed, is it better to stick on without tablet dropings, or this non-instructions are missleading because of what reasons?: conspirative?; oportunistic?; handwashing?; ...
Do we start droping in vitamin pills (as did some folks) of: C-vit, D3vit, A-vit, ... vit ...
with no clear official worldwide guideliness = if the vitD3 levels are normal range, additional intake is an private decision only,
with an accepted potential body endangering or maybe contrary, a healing ...
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
It was mentioned earlier that they sell 1000U in gummy gums, and I also have seen it in chocolates.
It was mentioned earlier that they sell 1000U in gummy gums, and I also have seen it in chocolates.
Science Teacher
Resident
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
I order my 5000 iu Vit. D3 tabs (dosage 1 tab) from prohealthdotcom. I have no interests in this company or any vitamin companies.
It is the only place I could find a single 5000 iu tab.
I think a Doctor should be consulted before taking this many iu's.
I order my 5000 iu Vit. D3 tabs (dosage 1 tab) from prohealthdotcom. I have no interests in this company or any vitamin companies.
It is the only place I could find a single 5000 iu tab.
I think a Doctor should be consulted before taking this many iu's.
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
Thanks marcovth,
but I'm not sure the gummy idea is better, cause somewhere was wroted about toxic compounds used in chewing gums, so maybe the gummy gums could have it also ...
well, if we read the tablets box label, we can found plenty of colorant/../ additionals also, so ...
a ruined ozone layer rays shine alternative ...
Thanks marcovth,
but I'm not sure the gummy idea is better, cause somewhere was wroted about toxic compounds used in chewing gums, so maybe the gummy gums could have it also ...
well, if we read the tablets box label, we can found plenty of colorant/../ additionals also, so ...
a ruined ozone layer rays shine alternative ...
Re: Cytokine Storm & Vitamin D relationship?
The line you quoted does shed a different light on it, but the first line where he states it, does make it sound like it is caused by taking that amount of D wouldn't you agree?
So you're interpretation of what he said is that in a 1918 type of flu, where the risk of a cytokine storm is very high, it's not the amount of D you are taking that will cause the storm, it's that the storm with this kind of flu will be coming anyway and only those with higher levels will be able to fight it off? I honestly didn't look at it that way, but it does make sense.
The way I interpreted it was that it would be better not to supplement at all and have lower levels of D so as not to kick start your immune system (which is what causes the cytokine storm to begin with) than to supplement with 1 or 2,000 IU's and have just enough to give a robust immune response and therefore trigger the cytokine storm.
I realize just supplementing with the higher doses would eliminate this conversation but unfortunately I am one of those people stuck on blood pressure meds that contain hydrochlorothiazide, which when taken with high doses of D3 could cause nasty reactions. So I have started with just 1,000 IU's per day until I can find a doctor who understands the relationship between D AND DIURETICS. Unfortunately my family doc does not.
-Mike
The line you quoted does shed a different light on it, but the first line where he states it, does make it sound like it is caused by taking that amount of D wouldn't you agree?
So you're interpretation of what he said is that in a 1918 type of flu, where the risk of a cytokine storm is very high, it's not the amount of D you are taking that will cause the storm, it's that the storm with this kind of flu will be coming anyway and only those with higher levels will be able to fight it off? I honestly didn't look at it that way, but it does make sense.
The way I interpreted it was that it would be better not to supplement at all and have lower levels of D so as not to kick start your immune system (which is what causes the cytokine storm to begin with) than to supplement with 1 or 2,000 IU's and have just enough to give a robust immune response and therefore trigger the cytokine storm.
I realize just supplementing with the higher doses would eliminate this conversation but unfortunately I am one of those people stuck on blood pressure meds that contain hydrochlorothiazide, which when taken with high doses of D3 could cause nasty reactions. So I have started with just 1,000 IU's per day until I can find a doctor who understands the relationship between D AND DIURETICS. Unfortunately my family doc does not.
-Mike