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Discussion thread II - Covid-19 (new coronavirus)

I can give you an opinion and try and indicate what that opinion is based on if it helps.

I think that whilst we have great doctors and epidemiologists, following 10 years of underfunding, the whole PHE and NHS system is a mess. The NHS at present can barely cope with the workload from a severe flu year, and we are (in England alone) 10,000 doctors short and 40,000 nurses short. Critical supplies have been purchased on a 'just in time' basis and I would eat my hat if even a tiny percentage of hospitals / NHS Trusts have adequate safety stocks for an emergency such as this one due to funding shortages - and even if they are trying to correct that now, it will be difficult if not impossible to secure extra supplies of disposables and PPE equipment. They (i,e the powers that be within hospitals') know this, but i am entirely unconvinced that PHE (Public Health England) have grasped this fact and the cosnequences of it - instead choosing to try and position masks as unnecessary - not just for the public at large but also most medics.

See https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1822...lling-control/
And https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1823...reak-brighton/

My daughter is a doctor and takes part in a Mum's group for medics. She tells me that the group is 'alive' with reports that people who have all the right travel or close contact history are being sent by NHS 111 to their GP surgeries (this is NOT supposed to happen). When GPs and medics are trying to arrange testing it is frequently being denied; even close contacts of KNOWN cases are having difficulties.The medics themselves are being refused testing in many cases when there is a good justification for them to take place. In other words, it is not just a local problem in Sussex (see news reports linked above), its a national level of disorganisation and confusion.

It is a total mess. Now add to that that the UK fears social unrest and panic more than anything else, and I suspect (pure guess) that No 10 has made it more or less a state secret to discuss actual cases under schedule D notices, so suspect cases are not being reported. I also question how accurate our PCR testing is given that only 30 - 50% of tests in China of clinically diagnosed cases have been positive... so lots of cases may be being treated as severe influenza. (Again my guess). Yet they have expanded the country list FOR testing.

Now more lately it looks like they will be using self isolation as a policy, but economic concerns (keep the economy going will be No 1 priority for the current government IMHO) means that I think they will just let this run and manage things on an ad hoc basis. I dont think the strategists have a clue about how severe this will be and the knock on effects as a whole, at every level. They are too preoccupied with the potential catastrophe of Brexit (again IMHO) and all energies are focussed in that direction.

So my conclusion is that - even though some are well aware of the problem and potential severity, they are choosing to take the best case scenario and assume it wont be worse that the current flu season. God help us in the UK if even half this lot of supposition is correct!

Edit: One additional point is that the UK already uses its army medics within the NHS to bolster numbers - so we dont have a military 'reserve' to deploy either. In fact, we will lose these medics back to the armed forces in an emergency situation, as they will need to focus efforts on their primary job - looking after armed forces and their families... so the understaffing situation will get far worse. Additionally, we currently have ONLY 50 specialist isolation beds and 500 ICU beds nationally in England. If they let this run and @20% of cases are severe, (given that the disease course runs for several weeks before recovery or death), we will not have beds for severe cases (i.e we won't be very much better than 1918) within a few days of an epidemic outbreak as things stand (i.e if the situation in China is mirrored equally in the UK.)

Not only do we have a dire shortage of hospital beds, but also a dire shortage of medics - and if the current lackadaisical attitudes continue and we don't adequately protect the medics we have, then they will get sick and there will be no-one left to treat the patients.

Second Edit: This local report just put out sums things up really.https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/182...doctors-coronavirus-isolation-says-clinician/

Thank you Vibrant62. Your conclusions are the only logical ones I can think of (as I reach for my hand gel). As Sheldon Cooper would say "we are joined to another object by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis."
 
As I posted somewhere, we are receiving the usual internet ****. You know, DDOS attacks, fake people trying to join, etc. Last week someone signed up our email to receive po. r. n. ads. All of this is not new.

This week someone subscribed the account to "Dementia News". Now that one hurts. :whistle:
 
Translation Google

"Wuhan Pneumonia" "Mobile incinerator" enters Wuhan Net dumbfounded: how many people died?
...

2020-02-19 00:24:13

[Real-time news / comprehensive report] Wuhan's pneumonia epidemic has been delayed. Wuhan, the worst-hit area, not only closed the city, but also built the "Vulcan Mountain Hospital", "Thunder Mountain Hospital" and a number of "square cabin hospitals" to treat patients. And in order to meet the needs of medical waste combustion, a manufacturer in Nanjing, China changed the "mobile medical waste incineration square cabin" to "garbage and animal carcasses disposal square cabin". This container-type device has been shipped to Wuhan, and it is said that it can incinerate 5 tons per day. Medical waste can also handle "animal carcasses".

According to a comprehensive Chinese media report, due to the continuous expansion of the pneumonia epidemic in Wuhan, in order to meet the demand for medical pneumonia burning in Wuhan, a "medical waste emergency treatment cabin" recently developed by the air pollution control team of the School of Environmental Science and Engineering of Shanghai Jiaotong University went to Wuhan for assistance. In the epidemic area, we look forward to contributing to the scientific and technological warfare.

Professor Qu Zhan, School of Environmental Science and Engineering, Shanghai Jiaotong University, said that the key to the disposal of medical waste by incineration is the removal of viral pathogens. The incineration in a square cabin incinerator is maintained at 850 degrees or higher for 2 seconds. The virus cannot survive in this condition. The technology It just can support the current "detoxification" of medical waste in Wuhan, and the "square cabin" can incinerate and detoxify 5 tons of medical waste daily.

"Xinmin Evening News" pointed out that each "square cabin" is about 20 meters in size and 30 cubic meters in volume. It contains three parts of solid crushing, incineration and air purification. The mobile emergency treatment of domestic medical waste and animal carcasses, These square cabins have recently been transported into Wuhan by large trucks, with a total of 40 units.

In this regard, Ming Ju, an emeritus professor of the National Taiwan University ’s Political Department, is sharing relevant photos on Facebook that "things are not simple." Tsai Yi-cheng, a physician writer, also pointed out on Facebook that "after the square cabin hospital, there is a square cabin incinerator. "

Many netizens were frightened when they saw this, and they commented, "How many people have died, it is too sad!", "If this is a premeditated CCP, it is too terrible", "It is not enough to burn, but also dispatch an incinerator. .. "," How can there be any animal carcass "," Animals will not be infected with this virus. Do you need to arrange such containers? "

https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/3072422
 
[h=1]Gottlieb: Japan appears to be on the cusp of a large coronavirus outbreak[/h] 31,194 views
•Feb 18, 2020
Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Pfizer board member and former FDA commissioner, joins "Squawk Box" to discuss the latest on the novel coronavirus fears and the impact on public health and business.
:tiphat:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMDMrDjGsnc
 
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FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
?
26m
Do you know why we are volunteering on FluTrackers?

So you can protect yourself. Please see: https://ready.gov/pandemic

Get some preps. You will use them anyway.

The government will not be able to help everyone.

Only you can protect you.

#COVID19 #coronavirus #SARSCoV2
 
Their web page for the above video:


Fact check: Is US emergency response system up to par?

17:11, February 18, 2020


Ever since the novel coronavirus outbreak in China, some US media outlets and politicians have taken advantage of the epidemic to slander the Chinese government and attack China’s political system.

Does the US really have a good record in dealing with a similar situation? Let us turn the clock back to 2009, when the H1N1 flu from the US spread to 214 regions and countries.

snip

Facts and numbers have clearly displayed the truth: China’s speed, scale, and efficiency all demonstrate the strengths of its system.

US politicians should stop pointing figures at others, especially if the US government is unable to act in times of public emergency. At the very least, they can shut their mouths if they cannot provide actual help to the world.

zhttp://en.people.cn/n3/2020/0218/c90000-9659220.html


-----------------------------------------------------

I have one word for this:

Tribunal
 
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FluTrackers.com
@FluTrackers
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1m
Truth -

Hurricane in Fla in August - despite gov efforts - you are responsible for you. You do not see the gov around & they commandeer the only ice manufacturer.

Little food,no ice,no power.Lines at gas stations.

Do not depend on any gov to help you.

#COVID19 #coronavirus

All true, but most Americans live in apartments. They are dead if the water stops running or the power goes out for more than a couple of days.
Plus, there is no space to store all the prepping materials.

The impressive part of the Chinese performance to date is that Wuhan still has power and water. Keeping those infrastructure elements running is not a simple task, it requires expertise at multiple levels. I hope the US is at least taking notes of their achievements, because we may need to show that we can do as well.
 
LOL...it would be great to know, what the Chinese people think of their government's response. Unfortunately freedom of speech does not exist in China and the few who dare to speak up are imprisoned. Also, H1N1 did not begin in the US...this was documented on Flutrackers.
 
I don't believe the people who have kept the power and water and other vital services had a choice whether to show up at work or not.
 
:magnify:Unverified Division:
:tiphat:https://twitter.com/davesumnersmith/...92062113337347
Dave Sumner Smith
@davesumnersmith
Author. Traveller. Photographer. British born. European outlook. American links.
London, Englandwordzone.co.ukJoined February 2008
5,072 Following
7,094 Followers

Dave Sumner Smith
@davesumnersmith
One of my alumni from UWC China says "I just got classified info from inside our Ministry of Defense where a relative works and the latest number of people infected with the #coronavirus in our country is 1.6 million."
 
It's easy to see why people might think it started in the US.
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm
Infection with this new influenza A virus (then referred to as ‘swine origin influenza A virus’) was first detected in a 10-year-old patient in California on April 15, 2009, who was tested for influenza as part of a clinical study. Laboratory testing at CDC confirmed that this virus was new to humans. Two days later, CDC laboratory testing confirmed a second infection with this virus in another patient, an 8-year-old living in California about 130 miles away from the first patient who was tested as part of an influenza surveillance project. There was no known connection between the two patients. Laboratory analysis at CDC determined that the viruses obtained from these two patients were very similar to each other, and different from any other influenza viruses previously seen either in humans or animals.
 
Scary thoughts - what do you all think...

Numbers are going down because people are afraid to report they are sick due to the recent forced quarantines and door blockades of entire buildings.

Or

Numbers are going down because China wants the world to open trade routes again - too much money lost.
 
If the Chinese are locking people in while leaving them without water or power in mid winter, they must be totally desperate. Perhaps it ties into the report of multiple mobile crematoria being brought into Wuhan city. I would hope that if things are that bad there that our government would be frantically shoring up our defenses, but do not see much evidence of that.
 
Wuhan is still bad, but there are almost no new cases outside Wuhan.
All the cities,all the provinces (who report independently)
 
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