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The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

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  • The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

    This was originally posted elsewhere, 6 months ago, in October, 2005.


    You will read below a clear argument that the 10th Plague, death of the first born, was a disease that matches very closely what we here call bird flu.

    It was a deadly disease which spread quickly and was in multiple mammals at the same time.

    It transmitted in a way that was ascribed to God's Angel of Death as it transmitted without any then visible or explicable delivery method.

    It led to bleeding, probably profuse bleeding.

    It killed quickly.

    It killed the young, not the first born (Moses and the Pharoah both survived).

    The animals, including cattle and probably sheep, were infected.

    The reaction by the Jews, especially Moses, was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, with the Jews "wandering" in the desert for 50 years, until Moses died; they stayed away from cities.

    Blame was placed on the Jews by the Egyptians because they too had no other explanation for why so many young people died so quickly.

    Law and Order broke down, it appears. Serious trouble politically occurred. In the chaos, the Jews who apparently saw this coming moved away.

    There are some curiosities about borrowing gold and silver from neighbors, on which there is room for discussion.

    Please feel free to amplify with your challenges and comments.

    Enjoy,
    Gaudia Ray


    FIRST, THE RELEVANT QUOTES FROM EXODUS 11 & 12 (easily found on the internet)

    10th Plague...pardon the pompous use of the English language. Just think about what they were doing; this is both an historical review and an instruction booklet:
    EXODUS:
    Chapter 11:
    1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Yet will I bring one plague more upon Pharaoh, and upon Egypt; afterwards he will let you go hence: when he shall let you go, he shall surely thrust you out hence altogether.
    2 Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour, and every woman of her neighbour, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold.
    3 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians. Moreover the man Moses was very great in the land of Egypt, in the sight of Pharaoh's servants, and in the sight of the people.
    4 And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt:
    5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.
    6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.
    7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the LORD doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
    8 And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and bow down themselves unto me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that follow thee: and after that I will go out. And he went out from Pharaoh in a great anger
    [snip]

    CHAPTER 12
    1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
    2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
    3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
    4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
    [IN ESSENCE, PREPARE...PACK IN PREP'S.]

    5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
    [LOOK... THE ANIMALS WERE SICK; SO GOD SAID, PICK ANIMALS TO EAT THAT ARE NOT SICK. AND LOOK WHAT ANIMAL IT WAS, IT WAS MAMMALIAN. IT WAS SHEEP. A SHEEP DISEASE.

    6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

    7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
    [MAYBE THE RED BLOOD WAS TO FRIGHTEN MARAUDERS WHO SAW BLOOD AND BECAME SCARED. MAYBE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE INFECTED WERE VOMITING BLOOD. MAYBE THIS WAS NOT THE FLU BUT A HEMMORHAGIC FEVER THAT WAS GOING ON?

    NO,GR, IT WAS THE FLU! THEY WERE EXPERIENCING CYTOKINE STORM RESPONSES AMONG THE YOUNG PEOPLE. HERE'S ROBERT WEBSTER ON THE SAME TOPIC, AND OLD AND REPEATED QUOTE, "It was so very fast. You felt sick in the morning, went to bed at lunchtime and were dead by the evening, with blood coming out of your ears and everywhere."
    BINGO... THE BLOOD FRIGHTENED AWAY MARAUDERS. NOBODY WOULD COME CLOSE TO A HOME THAT HAD THE PANDEMIC VIRUS IN FULL BLOOM. STRIKING THE DOORPOSTS WITH A HISSOP, NOT A CEDAR, MUST HAVE GIVEN THE IMPRESSION THAT SOMEONE HAD GRABBED HOLD OF IT AND WAS BLEEDING PROFUSELY. B I N G O.]


    8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
    [AND WHAT HERBS WERE AVAILABLE? CURCUMMIN? I'VE NO IDEA.]

    9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden [cooked] at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the pertinence thereof.
    [UNCOOKED, UNDERCOOKED MEAT IS DANGEROUS. IT WAS THEN TOO.]

    10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
    [EAT THE MEAT THE SAME DAY; THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE MEAT STANDING OUT FOR ANY TIME.]
    11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.
    [THEY WERE IN A HURRY TO GET THEIR PREPS. THE PANDEMIC HAD PROBABLY ALREADY STARTED. AND PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN STARVING AND DESPERATE, SO THEY ATE IT IN "HASTE."]

    12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
    13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
    [SKIP THE PASSOVER HOLIDAY EXPLANATION]

    21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
    22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
    [I HAVE NO IDEA HOW LITERAL THIS IS. I'VE POSTED HERE AND EXPLAINED IT THIS WAY. THE JEWS WERE SLAVES; SO THEY HAD LITTLE CONTACT WITH TPTB, THE EGYPTIANS. THE EGYPTIANS INTERMINGLED AND BECAME INFECTED. THE PEOPLE STAYING IN THEIR HOMES, WITH LOTS OF FOOD, DIDN'T GO OUT; SO THEY WERE NEVER EXPOSED TO THE FLU.]
    [HISSOP...

    23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

    [SNIP. MORE PASSOVER HOLIDAY DEMANDS]

    29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
    30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
    [ASSUME EACH FAMILY WAS SIX PEOPLE. THAT'S ONE IN SIX, DEAD. DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR? 1 BILLION PEOPLE IN THE SECOND AND THIRD WORLDS, AND A SMALLER RATIO IN FIRST WORLD SETTINGS WHERE THERE ARE ADEQUATE FOOD AND WATER AND WHEN REQUIRED, HCW-CARE.]

    31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.
    [SNIP]

    And a follow on post:
    Exodus
    12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
    [EAT THE MEAT THE SAME DAY; THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE MEAT STANDING OUT FOR ANY TIME.]
    and
    [THEY PROBABLY WANTED NOTHING DISCARDED OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE FOR THE DOGS; NO EVIDENCE OF FOOD WOULD MEAN NOBODY WOULD BE INCLINED TO BREAK IN IN SEARCH FOR FOOD.]
    [AS WELL, HAVING NOTHING, SHOULD ANY OF TPTB ENTERED, MEANT THERE WAS NOTHING TO STEAL.]

    Exodus
    12-29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
    [THE DISEASE AFFECTED MORE THAN HUMANS; IT WAS A CATTLE DISEASE. We are now seeing a wide range of mammalian hosts for H5N1. We have had no report of cattle, at least that I've seen.]
    [I recall that there are hemmorhagic cattle diseases in Africa. Might that have jumped to humans, like Ebola or Marburg? It's clearly a hemmorhagic infection...I base this on the repeated emphasis to splash hissop leafed impressions of blood on the posts and lintel. I'm reminded of the OJ Simpson trial in which the fact that blood spurted everywhere, including enough to leave a bloody footprint of that extraordinarily expensive, special order shoe, made a ghoulish impression on me. How many then would have shuddered at what they saw at that front door and moved on to easier and less threatening pickings?]

    Exodus
    11:2 Speak now in the ears of the people, and let every man borrow of his neighbour, and every woman of her neighbour, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold.
    [DURING THE PANDEMIC, THEY WOULD NEED MONEY; SO THEY WERE TOLD TO GET BACK THEIR PROPERTY AS WELL AS BORROW FROM THEIR NEIGHBORS? i'VE NO IDEA WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT OTHER THAN IT WOULD PLACE MORE WEALTH IN THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE FLU CLINIC OF THEIR TIME, THE TEMPLES, I GUESS.]

    Exodus
    11: 1, 2, 3, 6. (see above)
    The Jews had a 10 day notice that something big was coming down. They were told to wait 10 days, buy the sheep, keep it for 4 days, and then kill it and prepare it on the well done side (possibly to see if the animal was sick or not...SO DIG THIS... IT WAS A FOUR DAY ASYMPTOMATIC INCUBATION PERIOD, BETWEEN INFECTION AND DISEASE SYMPTOMS, AND THE SYMPTOMS ARE "A BLEMISH", HEMMORHAGIC APPEARANCE ON THE SKIN OR IN THE EYES (AS SHEEP HAD A WOOL COVERING). AGAIN, THIS IS A CYTOKINE STORM SYMPTOM, BLOOD IN THE EYES, OR LEAKING FROM THE EYES (AND NOSE AND MOUTH AND AND AND).

    What I've always found curious is why the blood splatters on the door posts?
    And the answer is now obvious!!

    The young were experiencing cytokine storms. They were bleeding profusely within a day of infection. That flu strain was virulent and easily transmissible.

    The same experience we expect here, they experienced nearly 2800 years ago. Everyone was scared. There was a desperate shortage of food. Marauding was commonplace. Moses knew this.

    The game was simple. Find meat that was not tainted with disease (no easy task as it was specifically noted as required).

    As people knew that the flu was causing these horrifically bloody responses, all of them were frightened at going near a clearly infected household; and rightfully so.

    To keep the marauders at bay, especially the Egyptians who had superior power to take whatever they needed from the slave families, to keep them away from the people who had stocked up, the Jews used hissop branchs to splash blood on the doorposts. They used hissop, not cedar, probably because everyone at that time knew what the pattern of leaf markings would appear like if the cedar tree branch was used. I have not researched "hissop".

    The Jews "won" by using their heads. They saw they could repel the more powerful away from their homes, much of what we now fear, home invasions. They just scared the people coming past who then moved on to easier targets.

    For me, at least, this satisfies my long standing curiosity why the blood on the doorposts.

    It's also a heads up to us. We can "defeat" the marauders without even having to confront them!!

    So, the question is one for a Hollywood studio makeup artist, or set director. How to make one's place look not only uninviting but downright frightening.
    Do you have any ideas on this? This is not general preps. This is specifically what in the way of completely frightening will move the worst characters along?

    If this theory is correct, the purpose of the blood on the doorsteps would be to frighten away the marauders, the angels of death.

    So, what marks would hissop leafs make? Lookie here! http://www.wildflowersofontario.ca/...ianthyssop.html

    The look like bloody hand grips, as if someone dying tried to get out or got in. And if it's fresh blood, that would scare the whits out of any of us, if we were ignorant as to what whas happening.

    Marauder mentality will prey on the weak. Not a good idea. Overwhelming fear, intense in in the moment, will work. If they feel out of control, they will run like heck. Many here have said direct confrontation works. That's wrong.

    I think the Jews per Exodus showed the horror of death to the passersby.

    We have just been "given" a gift. Angola and Marburg virus showed us how people frighten. There's zero difference between them and us. We have another playout of panic and hysteria. It will happen here too.

    The most moderate of us, many here, are not the problem. The problem is and will be the ignorant who are in want. They showed their heads in NOLA. They will show themselves again.

    The solution of kaching or whatever the sound of the shotgun has a 50/50 probability of working. It depends on what you're protecting.

    Ruminate on this. "Be" them. Then you'll understand better. Post your fears, especially if you are frightened of dying by encountering anyone, except those on who you believe you must rely to survive.

    Don't discount the logic of the Jews of yore. Their plan "worked". I have one in mind, but honestly, at this moment, I'm not sharing. To quote one of my guru's, "shock & awe".

    This disease affects only "first borns". This is stated in the literature. (Though I do believe the plural of firstborn is firstborn, like sheep is sheep, and if wrong, then it must be biblical in my error. see below)

    Let's look. And let's not look just one time; let's enjoy this as we do a cognac after a meal, with both heady aroma and greeting taste.

    God must have been very confused here when he told the Jewish people that he would kill only the first bourne.

    He said he would kill only the first borns. But instead, he was silly. Of course, the Pharoah was the first born too, but he, an adult, did not die. God must be confused. Firstborn must mean firstborn. And if the Pharoah was not, and he had an older sister, there's not a mention about her dying.

    Maybe God was talking about the young people, the cytokine storm people, like a lot of the people in Indonesia now...but that's silly, right?

    I will post more in a second post.

    The applicable sentences are:

    Exodus 11:5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

    Exodus 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

    Exodus 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

    Exodus 12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

    Before looking more closely, there appears to be good news for the literalists here. Creationists are guaranteed that pandemic from H5N1 will be a relatively mild event, at least it will be more mild than the Tenth Plague. For those who believe in the Bible as the literal word of God, look here:
    Exodus 11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

    So, what's feared by the growing many is WRONG, as "nor shall be like it any more". We've been saved, long before the birth of Jesus. This news is for every living human, even if one is not a religionist. Everyone is included. We all received a free pass and God-Guaranty that the terror of that experience will never be returned on man or animal. God states very clearly here that this level of devastation will never reoccur. So, we know for sure that we will not experience death in every household. Not every firstborn will die should pandemic appear in a virulent form in the near, or for that matter, far term. Now is that a relief or is that a relief?!

    The threshold question is whether the Bible is literal or if it appears to be a compilation of facts and moral interpretations of those facts, as well as myths. This is an open and shut matter, and deserves only enough time to point out that repeatedly now, the occurrence of events mentioned in the Bible have been documented, now nearly ad nauseum. The existence of a Temple in Jerusalem, indications of flooding, locations and artifacts all reveal and validate the existence of many of the civilizations and the very buildings refereneced in the Bible. So, we must objectively assume that there is some either factual or psychologicaly credibility, or at minimum, foundation, to the "tales" being told in the Bible.

  • #2
    Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

    Continuing from prior postings, to consolidate them here in FT.


    "The Jews had a 10 day notice that something big was coming down."

    On reflection, it was longer than 10 days. It was 14 days plus time to see it in the livestock; so my guess is 21 days max.

    The UK Pandemic Plan clearly shows a 2 week relatively slow ramp up to an explosively steep expansion curve...ascending at an angle that appears to be (smiles in advance) very similar to the side of Cheops' Great Pyramid.

    Any reading of Biblical history will show that the Jew's were a way too rapidly growing, large population, in the tens and tens of thousands in the midst of the Egyptians.

    You may not know, but discussions indicate that the Egyptians were killing the male Jewish chldren (the Moses story), to control their population muliplication. These people were not "shepherds", alone, as you assert below.. They were "everything" in the Egyptian daily life. Of course, the Pharoah did not want to let them emigrate. They had no political power to "seize" or steal the flocks any more than the European serfs could do either.

    In fact, this was a very extraordinary event, the mass purchase of sheep. With tens of thousands of people invovled in this event, it must have impacted strongly on the availability of the meat supply, as we may conjecture that the "slaves''" diet did not consist of much meat. Exodus suggests the way they could afford to buy these sheep was by the borrowing and use of large amounts of gold and silver which if they didn't have, they borrowed.

    Here is recommended reading, not by me, but still probably of use:
    archeological, anthropological, theological perspectives:

    Anthony Ceresko Introduction to the Old Testament: A Liberation Perspective
    Maryknoll: Orbis, 1992.

    William Johnstone Exodus
    Sheffield: JSOT Press, 1990.


    I'd like to modify two points in the outline of motivations for the events.
    (And yes, I understand that I get a platinum plated tin foil hat, thank you, and now, back to an attempt to understand, and that's all this is, the result of so much that I've read [on the topic].)

    There is interest in the topic of mass purchase of sheep instead of simply pulling from the flocks owned by the Jews. Prior to re-assessing the position, there's the point regarding the borrowing of jewelry/gold/silver from one's neighbor, men from men and women from women.

    If orthodoxy existed at the time, there would not have been a lot of cross gender interaction, and while strange, I'm not at this point able to carry that thought line further.

    However, there is an alternative motive for the borrowing of things of value prior to the arrival of the pandemic/10th plague. A good friend in Santa Barbara, California, Roxanne, suggested that the motive for the borrowing would not have been to get money to buy sheep. She conjectures that the motive for the borrowing by the Jews was to to place those "in the know" in a politically safe position, analogous to the blood on the posts and lintels. She posited that the motive for the borrowing was to conspicuously announce and demonstrate to one's neighbors that your family was "broke", and thereby that would preclude the neighbors from coveting the asker's possessions...because they would "know" that the neighbor had few possessions of value and, in expectation of the neighbors being the maruaders, as we saw in NOLA, the neighbors would now doublely not choose to invade their homes.

    Yes the above idea is complex. At the same time, it dovetails with the blood on the doorposts and lintel. Those who have asked have lowered their risk of being targeted by their neigbor-marauders.

    Secondly, after posting that the Jews bought the sheep, I recognize that this was partially incorrect. In the description of the 7th plague, the locusts, there is reference to the Jews and their flocks. This would benefit from review and rethinking in the light of what AN posted and the reference in Exodus.

    As to blemishment of the sheep to be selected, I'm fully aware of what has been taught in religious schools regarding what is and is not a blemish. Those teachings do not carry with them any awareness of the consequence of cytokine storm., which is yet where I'll hang the argument's hat until explained otherwise. We have a simple, strong motive to choose unblemished and to broil the flesh, not to boil it. For the nonce, let's just say that boiling did not mean cooking the meat fully as maybe fuel had to be scarce and as a point of information, while I've not been to the mideast, my experience in Spain, with months of living in the cities and some visits into the countryside, the people there eat their food "tepid", at room temperature. The food there falls into a range of being "done". But my point is only that boiling, while it can kill the virus, is not as efficient has intensely broiled, in which, if turned, the boiling fat and moisture sear the meat quite fully.

    What is coming into focus are multiple acts all taken in response, and proactively, to diminish the fear of being attacked by marauders during the pandemic. The announcement of impoverishment, the consumption of the entire animal so that none would be left visible to "others", the blood at the entryway to frighten away everyone.

    We see their pandemic as an amazingly frightful event, and for their survival, they become forever indebteded to, and servants of God. God in turn promises never to do that again. (So God's a kewl dude, showing the hand of death and the not striking those who followed the leader's advice.)

    If you've been through an earthquake or a tornado or a hurricaine, a really serious and destructive natural even, you'll have no difficulty emoting with the people of that time who were scared out of their minds over the inexplicable and rapid death of so many "firstborn".

    This pandemic struck the young and healthy and killed them quickly. Everyone knows what happens in the cytokine storm. And yes, it would have scared Pharoah and his council as the bodies would have turned black within hours after the cytokine storm started. God would have been perceived as having sent the angel of death to strangulate young me. What other explanation could there have been for these events? This "feels" right to me, though I know it irks those who think I have no right to reflect on that event and I have no "proof".

    Let's just call this exercise "theoretical anthropology", and yet again invite each here to deduce their own conclusions and to post those as well.

    Turning to the matter of "fleeing" Egypt, it's a reasonable assumption that food distribution had collapsed, that the Egyptians were starving. The locusts ate their crops, the pandemic probably collapse what little infrastructure they had, and the Jews refused to go to work (probably just like what's predicted to happen now...40% to 60% won't show up).

    The unseen hand of God killed them quickly and without logic. This could not be repeated or revenged back by the Pharoah and his magicians, unlike the drawing of the frogs out of the rivers.

    So the Pharoah said, "Get out. Get out, now!" And the Jews fled. All this talk about unleavened bread is so irrational. They split the scene and ran for their lives. Shortly afterwards, Pharoah decided to take revenge, and the chase was on. It may be that the delay between kicking out the people who claimed they caused the calamity and chasing after them, which I think was a two weeks or a month, was possibly because the Pharonic army was sick and yet recovering. It killed the young. The Army would have been professional soldiers, many who were older. And possibly the Pharoah himself caught the flu; so he couldn't go after them for a while. until he was more fully recovered.

    On the point of borrowing the gold and silver, I'm not sure that my friend Roxanne's argument is sound. The Jews had herds and left with them. So there was food around. This "ain't easy". One Church minister from Palo Alto California, posted on the web that he saw God giving the Jews the right to borrow and then steal it/take it; he used the word, "plunder". I'm uncomfortable with the thought at this moment as it's antithetical to my desired perception of history.

    The Jews knew there was something inherently dangerous with the foodsupply:

    --We have now the need for an unblemished animal, kept for 4 days separate from the herd, slaughtered and roasted completely.

    --We have unleavened bread, which means no yeast because yeast could have been seen as going "bad"/ "off".

    --For all the claim of religiosity, the Jews had a well developed sense of risk from consuming unclean food sources, and they well understood the evolution of pandemic.

    --My conjecture is that they didn't really tell the Pharoah it's coming; when they got the boot, they claimed the story prize.

    Hyssops uses: to relieve symptoms of congestion from chest colds, bronchitis, and influenza due to its expectorant and diaphoretic qualities, and as a carminative to relieve flatulence or a nervous or upset stomach.
    http://www.naturedirect2u.com/Essen...oils/hyssop.htm

    images of hyssop (capparis spinosa): (via google images search)
    http://images.google.com/imgres?img...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
    http://images.google.com/imgres?img...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

    As to the 10 day waiting period prior to slaughtering the lamb and then the 4 day holding period, there's new information coming out via 1918 newspaper reports on their pandemic, and the days leading up to the explosion in deaths.

    What we see in 1918 both in Philadelphia and in Toronto and environs is an 8 to 10 day interlude between the first infected's deaths and the surge-jump.

    This is purely conjecture, but the reason for the waiting period might be that the time to stock up and forcefeed oneself is further into the pandemic, not at its inception (limited food supply and non inexhaustable economic resources may have led to the wait.) Remember, Exodus is reported well after the fact. It would have been only a memory as the Jews wandered for 50 years thereafter (possibly terrified to encamp in a city, after what they saw in Egypt...we'll have plenty of post traumatic stress disorder folks after our pandemic is over, if we have a pandemic anywhere near as severe as this one.

    Further Reflections on Exodus 11 & 12

    Imagine back 2600 years ago. Step back in time.
    Imagine You Are There. (thank you Walter, thank you)

    Imagine yourself as a sharecropper, where you own the herds of cattle and sheep. Imagine yourself ignorant of all but rudimentary medical care and folk wisdom. Now stand by and watch a rapid spread of illness speeding through your herds, so fast you are amazed. You've done nothing different today than you did yesterday. But the cattle are dying. They are bleeding and blotching and dying. So are the sheep.

    You suspicion poison! You watch every day for signs of poisoning, by your neighbor or by your enemy. You see nothing. You are scared. Everything you own and have worked for, your wealth, is being destroyed and you can do nothing. Nobody can help.

    Who do you call? You call your rabbi. You call your mullah. You call your minister. You call on God. "I beseech you to please stop."

    It gets worse.

    You see your son, the shepherd, get sick and die within a week. He too started to bleed and turned frighteningly fast completely black.

    Your neighbors freak out and they shun you. You must have some new and scarey "curse", and knowing you could lead to their being cursed too.

    You wrack your mind, "What is causing this?" "What can be done to stop this?" "What can you do to protect your family?"

    Your friendly religious advisor has the answer. It's the same answer that the mullahs in Aceh just said to their "flocks". "You have not been religious enough. You did not support the temple. You have not trusted in God enough. You had better listen to us. You had better show up at religious services. We cannot help you unless you do these things." (Blackmail, religious-style.)

    The smartest thinkers in the community meet to discuss the topic. Some who think beyond the moment look at the options:
    personally... there will be a food shortage because the animals will die; this is spreading quickly and will transmit H2H.
    politically... we will be blamed for killing the animals; Pharoah never accepts blame; we will be his political targets.
    factually... we, the shepherds, the field hands, the livestock managers...we have seen it first; it has gotten worse, so it will get even more worse; people will go broke because there will be no animals to sell, nothing to barter, and people will starve.

    And the obvious conclusions from the options:

    a. What's happening now can be used as a bargaining chip with Pharoah; we know something the overlords don't. We know what's happening. We see it in our community. We will tell his staff and him that our God is angry and he had better release us from our indentured servitude...or else. (this is a no brainer; there's nothing to lose; we know the outcome because we've seen illness transmission in the past; we know how that plays out; this is just a much worse illness.)

    b. We must prepare for two storms: the people and the infection. The infection is real. It is coming from the animals; the boy ate rare mutton, boiled just the way we always eat it, and he died. The infection kills, and we know how it kills. We will not eat boiled or rare meat. We will not eat "blemished" meat; we can sell what we can, and prepare to duck and cover. We can imagine that the Egyptians will riot, loot and attack us because their priests will blame it on the Jews...after all we're the meat providers; so they will say we are trying to kill them.

    c. And there are the naysayers and those who believe that "the norm" is LPAI. They remember cattle diseases and they've never been this severe. So, it can't be anything other than a minor discongruity. One guy called Flu Cow keeps saying that this is just a cattle disease. We just need to let it run its course in the cows and stay away from them. Flu Cow is a boisterous blowhard and he has persuaded his neighbors that he's right. And there's another guy, an old guy named Pikerman who has been a rancher all his life. Pikerman has a hard time with new ideas. He likes it the old way. He's sure of the old way, and so are lots of others in our community. In our minions, we have heard from people who say about the disease, "It's a big spectrum. Why do you think it is something to be concerned about? Only a few people got sick and only two young field hands died. We are over 300,000 people. Why should we be concerned? If it gets worse, then we'll think about it. As for now, we're going back to work." Flu Cow and Pikerman applauded that speech.

    d. Moses and his supporters had a tough time persuading people that what was happening was any different than in the past. The more intellectually competent, the rabbi's, saw their opportunity. They would use Moses as their point man to threaten the Pharoah with what they recognized was a disease they could not stop.

    The Jews Probable Strategy: We can poison the Egyptians! The infection will kill many who eat meat from our herds. They're gonna be furious!!

    The rest, as they say, is history.

    The Jews played their hand. Pharoah of course blew it off. He checked with his priests who were not field hands, but who believed in reassortment and they said, "Nah, forget about it." The Jews plotted out the probable outcome and shared it with the people who attended whatever rudimentary religious services (unlike today's governments, except for UK, AU, and NZ...that I know of) there were of their day. And then, when the event was on, their neighbors who had been reckless, like Flu Cow, and obstinate, like Pikerman, they perished and their homes were smashed by looters. And the Jews who withstood the Angel of Death beat a hardy retreat as they streamed out of the city and suburbs which were filled with death and the ungirding of families. They fled quickly because they knew that when you "punk the power", you "get 'em" for a moment, but they're the vested interests, and they do control the army; so they will be back.

    GR's commentary: Like this time, the Angel of Death probably will not kill enough to change the political reality on the ground. Some states will collapse; political strife, internal and external are now more real possibilities; many will experience a lack of the own internal ability to disinterestedly define the real issues (current moment France is an example). Those governments with an implemented and shared survival plan will be embraced by their citizenry. Those without will be be seen as they are now, in need of a regime change. The Jewish Exodus Model is just one in history. Each would be worthy of study and exploration, seeking insight on what it's now our turn to experience. (I don't wish to be fatalistic; not one soul has presented a firm argument for the other side; all I've witnessed are obstructionists when the arguments have been made to "forget about it.")

    From what we are being told, from what is being foreshadowed by the technical experts in the field of virology, there is yet another hemmorhagic fever, called bird flu, that is poised to become pandemic.

    Literal interpretation of the Bible leaves no room to speculate. This discussion is NOT addressed to the orthodox who accept the written word and who do not interpret those words. Any orthodox sect which applies even one thin sliver of interpretation, and I have never met members of one that did not explain what happened through their own interpretive eyes, opens the door for each and every opinion of what those words in Exodus 11 and 12 mean. When one claims the right to interpret, every opinion has a co-equal right to be expressed.

    Even an assertion that something is taken out of context and that assumptions are made itself is as is acknowledged above, "an opinion".

    We are exploring one of the seminal, foundational events in the Judeo-Christian beliefs that impacted on the Jews of the time and either validated their belief in God or scared them profoundly and they took psychological refuge in God. Either way, the relationship between God and Man is ratified as being omnipresent and omnipotent due to this event and its aftermath.

    Hemmorhagic inflictions of Man were a topic about which I knew little prior to reading the postings in FC. Now, I'm aware that these are repetitive in human history. They are no more rare than the years in the calendar; and until science, not religion, becomes more able to identify the causes, which appear to be primarily viral, and the cures, they will continue to be repetitive throughout time, as long as mammals populate Earth.


    Re: Hemmorhagic or bleeding diseases: Primitive man, the Jews living in Phraronic Egypt, would have been startled, conscious and scared for their safety. We watch as the world turns yet again to hemmorhagic illness.

    Adn the final entry, here, for the moment:

    Black Death. There's a book on this topic of relatively recent date...and guess what!! Black Death in Mesopotamia somewhere between 700 and 400 BC. That's the external bingo confirmation that the thrombic disease, called The Tenth Plague, was a Black Death experience. Hence, blood on the doorposts, and the consequences leading to the religious fervency of the Jews, their recorded stories, their intense focus on reading, comprehension and argumentation, and modern western world civilization...all due in all likelihood to a bird disease originating in China. To me, how fascinating.

    Hereinbelow excerpts from the other posting:

    #1
    The National Review of Medicine
    JUNE 30, 2004 VOLUME 1 NO. 13

    New research claims the infamous Black Death wasn't caused by bubonic plague — or flea-bitten rats — after all. Brace yourselves for a viral comeback

    By Peter Woodford

    The case of the biggest medical story of the last millennium just got reopened. Professor Christopher Duncan and Dr Sue Scott, of the University of Liverpool, have dropped an epidemiological bombshell with their upcoming book

    Return of the Black Death: The World's Greatest Serial Killer.

    Using detailed analysis of the microbial and historical evidence they argue that, contrary to established theory, the historic scourge known as the Black Death wasn't caused by bubonic plague, but a yet-to-be-identified virus.

    The authors -- Professor Duncan is a zoologist, Dr Scott a social historian -- also manage to exonerate the Oriental rat and its much-maligned travelling companion, the Xenopsylla cheopis flea, by arguing it was actually travelling humans who spread the Plague. The scope and swiftness of the Black Death was possible in 14th century Europe, they say, thanks to the virus' extraordinarily long incubation period. What's more, the authors feel it's entirely plausible that this Black Death could make a comeback.

    GOD'S LITTLE TOKEN
    Bubonic plague, a disease caused by the Yersinia bacteria, has long been widely accepted as the cause of the Black Death. But for some scientists, it never quite fit the many detailed primary accounts of the Black Death.

    "It was instantly recognized at the time of the Black Death in 1347 that the disease was directly infectious person to person," says Dr Scott, "and this view persisted until the end of the 19th century when bubonic plague was discovered and the story of rats and fleas being responsible for the Black Death was invented."

    The authors examined countless chronicles and medical reports from the Plague period and noticed something. "The detailed clinical descriptions of hemorrhagic plague in no way fit with those of bubonic plague," says Professor Duncan. "The characteristic symptoms of hemorrhagic plague were 'God's tokens,' spots on the chest resulting from hemorrhaging beneath the skin. These aren't found in bubonic plague victims."

    "Our work with the English parish registers that were maintained during a plague epidemic revealed to us that the disease had the following characteristics: a latent period of 12 days; a 20-day infectious period before appearance of symptoms and a five-day period of symptoms before death," Professor Duncan continues. "This long incubation period shows how the diseasecould spread over hundreds of miles even in the days of limited transport. It also corresponds exactly with the quarantine period that the Italian health authorities worked out by trial and error 600 years ago." It goes without saying that rats and fleas seldom pay heed to quarantine orders. Their conclusion? "Bubonic plague was never established in Europe."

    #2 Professor Duncan and Dr Scott feel there's strong evidence for five outbreaks of a Black Death-type virus in recorded history. The first occurred in Mesopotamia from 700 to 400 BC; then during the Plague of Athens of 430 BC; next the Plague of Justinian from AD 541 to AD 700; then the plagues of Islam in AD 627 to AD; and finally the 14th- to 17th-century Black Death. "If the virus is still lying dormant in its animal host in Africa, it could, potentially, reappear at any time," says Dr Scott. "After all, over 30 new emergent diseases have appeared since 1970."

    Return of the Black Death: The World's Greatest Serial Killer (John Wiley & Sons Canada)
    http://www.nationalreviewofmedicine...ature11_13.html
    Last edited by Admin; March 18th, 2006, 07:54 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

      The first round of modern-day-pandemic

      It's quite comical to a 21st Century mind. You can see how deadly serious this is to those engaged in the activity. It's easy to project back in time, when science was an infant, and apply the emotions and the expectations we read, below, to the physical reality on the ground.

      At least there will be "entertainment" for some of us, and the Angel of Death will be visiting those religiously feuding camps big time...big, big time.

      What we must be on guard for is the rise in religiosity as a reaction to helplessness, hopelessness and abandonment. Depression on one side, being Born Again or profound re-commitment to faith on the other.

      As long as the options are proscribed, the outcome is obvious.
      GR


      Seeing the Divine Hand in the Middle East's Avian Flu Cases
      March 20, 2006
      Ruvy in Jerusalem
      On the Book of Psalms : Exploring the Prayers of Ancient Israel
      Nahum M. Sarna


      It has not taken long for G-d to be invoked in the comments of some about the avian flu. Friday, an Arab imam at Al-Tadwa mosque in Beit Lahia north of Gaza City stated that the arrival of the bird flu in Israel was the beginning of a series of plagues and diseases that would punish the Jews for being the "worst of humanity" and that would destroy the Jewish state over the next 20 years.

      According to the story carried by WorldNetDaily, "Sheikh Abu Muhammed, an imam at the popular Al-Tadwa mosque in Beit Lahia north of Gaza City, went on to ask Muslims at his Friday night sermon to pray for the sexual organs of Jews to "dry out" so they cannot reproduce, a Palestinian in attendance at the mosque services told WorldNetDaily."

      The recent death of 600 birds from avian flu in Gaza went unmentioned by the imam, at least so far as the news story reported his remarks. It is unlikely that the imam knew that a woman who died in Egypt Friday had died from bird flu. This news was not confirmed by Egyptian authorities until Sunday.

      The sermon was not atypical of those one hears from imams in Gaza, who continually call down Allah's wrath upon the Jewish people for their sins against the "Palestinian" people.

      Yesterday, Baruch Marzel, head of the Jewish National Front (Hazít) Party, which is fielding candidates in the 28 March Knesset elections in Israel, stated in Ynetnews that the appearance of bird flu in Israel was G-d's punishment for the expulsion of Jews from Gush Kaztif last year.

      "You were punished by God and now you'll have to ask for the forgiveness of Gush Katif residents," Marzel wrote in a letter to the affected settlements, many of whom border the Gaza Strip.

      According to Ynetnews, various right-wing groups in Israel have theorized that there is a connection beteen the outbreak of the bird flu and the expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif. Apparently, Marzel is certain of this connection.

      "'The kibbutz was used to house the expulsion headquarters because of greed, and therefore the bird flu outbreak happened there of all places,' the far right leader wrote in his letter to Ein HaShlosha kibbutz.

      According to what Marzel later told Ynet, anti-pullout activists were pained by the fact nearby southern communities did nothing to help Gush Katif residents. 'They were neighbors, and so even if politically they do not support [the settlements of] Judea and Samaria, they should have assisted their neighbors,' Marzel said. 'Yet they made money from the expulsion of Gush Katif residents.'"

      In the 60 comments that the article in Ynet generated, many readers referred to Marzel as crazy, and an Israeli version of American televangelist Pat Robertson. One suggested what the Gaza imam Sheikh Abu Muhammad had suggested, that the bird flu was punishment for Israel's treatment of Arabs on her soil. Another wrote, " So many speaking for G-d. So few listening to Him."

      Yesterday, ABC News reported a second case of bird flu infecting a human had been reported in Egypt.

      The writer was born in Brooklyn and lived in Minnesota for a number of years. There he managed restaurants and wrote stories. He moved with his family to Israel where they now reside.
      http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/03/20/055920.php
      Last edited by GaudiaRay; March 20th, 2006, 11:07 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

        The cattle and in this case, the camels, are now getting sick.

        Sound familiar?

        As it's ABBF, it just can't be anything but FMD. We yet don't know. When it isn't, we will also know. The drumbeat is now scarey, rather than background rhythmic.


        EGYPT: Man recovers from bird flu as wave of foot-and-mouth is reported
        20 Mar 2006 13:58:38 GMT

        CAIRO, 20 March (IRIN) - Health ministry officials reported the gradual recovery of a farmer from Qaliubiya province, 40 kilometres north of Cairo, who was taken ill with the H5N1 avian virus on Thursday.

        Administered with Tamiflu tablets, Mohamed Bahieddin Abdel Moneim, 30, remains in hospital under close observation.

        "He was treated with Tamiflu at a Qaliuybiya hospital, and his life is no longer in danger," said Ministry of Health official Sayyid al-Abbasi. "He's well now, though he's still under surveillance."

        The owner of a poultry farm, Abdel Moneim is the second reported human case of avian influenza in Egypt. The first, also from Qaliubiya, was a woman who died on 17 March. The two victims were from different villages, however, and had no apparent contact with each other.

        Potentially deadly, the disease can be cured with Tamiflu capsules if detected in time. According to al-Abbasi, the health ministry has so far provided hospitals countrywide with a total of 82,000 10-capsule boxes of the drug, a number it hopes to raise to one million over coming weeks.

        Public health authorities have been on alert since the first case of the virus was reported among birds in mid-February. Since then, over 10 million chickens and domestic birds have been culled nationwide on orders of the government, crippling the poultry industry and badly affecting its workers.

        A ban on the importation of live fowl and the domestic transport of birds has also been introduced and enforced. To date, infected birds have been reported in 17 out of Egypt's 26 governorates, according to the health ministry.

        In related news, reports of foot-and-mouth disease (FMD) in cattle have increased rapidly in recent weeks. Although FMD is a relatively constant feature of farm life, a new wave of the disease has struck Egyptian cattle with unusual strength, say local veterinarians.

        "Usually, FMD doesn't constitute a problem, despite its constant presence," said Sami Taha, member of the Egyptian Veterinarians' Syndicate. "But this time the wave has been particularly harsh, and cattle across several governorates have been dying from the disease."

        FMD is a highly contagious and potentially deadly virus that mainly affects cattle and sheep. According to the European Commission for the Control of FMD, the disease has been regularly reported in Egypt over the last half-century.

        While veterinarians say the disease is easily contained on a technical level, they complain that a lack of funding could hurt prevention measures in the case of an epidemic. "We have significant expertise in the veterinarian community to deal with a potential outbreak," said Taha. "But we lack the required funds to act with maximum efficiency."

        While humans only rarely contract the virus, warned Taha, an outbreak could cripple the local cattle industry and damage the national economy.

        http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/new...b32e14fe7a1.htm

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

          Thank you for posting this thread. Very interesting indeed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 & 12

            HAHAHAHAHAHA (rolling on floor laughing) OMG! (wiping tears from eyes)

            He checked with his priests who were not field hands, but who believed in reassortment and they said, "Nah, forget about it."
            Have I told you lately how much I appreciate you, Dude!!!

            ....enough of that. Have to get back to the great story!!! Shalom!

            Comment


            • #7
              One US Thumpers view.

              Maybe they didn't predict it so it won't happen?


              \Commentary > Opinion
              from the March 21, 2006 edition
              <!-- begin spacer and line break --><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="400" HEIGHT="14">
              <!-- Insert photo code here --><!-- End Photo code -->
              <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=400 border=0 VALIGN="TOP"><TBODY><TR><TD width=400><!-- begin story -->Selling 'pandemic flu' through a language of fear

              Traditional skepticism is missing in discussions of pandemic flu.

              By Peter Doshi

              <!-- Begin Body Text -->CAMBRIDGE, MASS. Americans consider the United States to be a country where debate flourishes. Yet with regard to avian flu, hyped sound bites predominate. When President Bush asked Congress for $7.1 billion toward "pandemic flu preparedness," even his critics replied "not enough." Meanwhile, public health officials seem obsessed with preparing for an impending crisis - even before they have established that doom is truly heading our way. <!-- -->What is lacking in the overall discussion about pandemic flu is disagreement, criticism, and skepticism - once the bedrock of science - from researchers willing to question and test the data. Further, little has been done to educate the public on what exactly defines a pandemic.
              <!-- BEGIN story related links --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=160 align=right border=0 VALIGN="TOP"><!-- insert vertical photo --><TBODY><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=149 colSpan=2 height=3><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="149" HEIGHT="3"></TD></TR><!-- ADD REPORTERS ON THE JOB TEMPLATE HERE --><!-- ADD VIDEO, AND AUDIO LINKS HERE --><!-- Insert Manual Related Links Template Below --><!-- *********************** BEGIN pubPromo include ***** --><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=13 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="13" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD class=head4 width=136>



              </TD></TR><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=13 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="13" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=136></TD></TR><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=149 colSpan=2 height=14><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="149" HEIGHT="14"></TD></TR><!-- *********************** END pubPromo include ***** --><!-- BEGIN e-mail to a friend etc. --><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=13 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="13" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=136><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=136 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width=26></TD><TD class=head4 width=110><SCRIPT src="/lib/javascripts/email_this.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

              </TD></TR><TR><TD width=136 colSpan=2 height=7><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="136" HEIGHT="7"></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width=26></TD><TD class=head4 width=110>

              </TD></TR><TR><TD width=136 colSpan=2 height=7><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="136" HEIGHT="7"></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width=26></TD><TD class=head4 width=110>

              </TD></TR><TR><TD width=136 colSpan=2 height=7><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="136" HEIGHT="7"></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center width=26></TD><TD class=head4 width=110>

              </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><!-- END e-mail to a friend etc. --><TR><TD width=10 height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="10" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=1 bgColor=#abab9c height=1><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1"></TD><TD width=149 colSpan=2 height=7><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="149" HEIGHT="7"></TD></TR><TR><TD width=160 colSpan=4 height=7><SPACER TYPE="BLOCK" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="7"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END story related links -->First, some facts: According to the World Health Organization, the first "outbreak" of the H5N1 virus, also known as avian flu, killed six people in 1997 in Hong Kong. Since then, H5N1 has allegedly killed 97 more worldwide, the majority of whom lived in poor, rural areas and had direct contact with dead or sick birds often kept in unsanitary conditions.
              These numbers do not suggest the human population faces an insurmountable threat from this virus. Peter Palese, flu scientist at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, told The New York Times in a Nov. 8, 2005, article that H5N1 is a false alarm. The virus has been "around for more than a dozen years, but it hasn't jumped into the human population." The reason? It probably can't. Dr. Palese points to studies of serum collected from rural Chinese populations in 1992. The results indicated that millions of people had natural antibodies to H5N1. This suggests they had been infected and recovered without becoming noticeably or extremely sick - not the outcome one would expect from a virus as feared as this one.
              The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 36,000 deaths in the US occur during an "average" flu season. During the last "flu pandemic" of 1968, however, they state 34,000 Americans died.
              In response to an article I recently published in the British Medical Journal, questioning the reliability of US flu death statistics, the CDC countered that "it cannot be assumed a priori that pandemics will cause more mortality than interpandemic seasons." Unfortunately, this information is rarely explained to the general public.
              The CDC's statement is echoed by scientists at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md. "The mild 1968 pandemic was actually exceeded by a few more recent severe A(H3N2) seasons," they say. In other words - technical jargon removed - the annual (nonpandemic) flu season can (and has often been) more deadly than a pandemic. Despite this, the World Health Organization informs readers that among the top 10 things you should know about pandemic flu: "Large numbers of deaths will occur."
              If regular flu seasons can be worse than "pandemics," just what does the word mean? Many people seem unsure. The online Merriam-Webster dictionary reports that "pandemic" was the seventh most frequently looked up word in 2005. But what the dictionary doesn't tell its readers is the definition that flu scientists employ.
              To influenza researchers, "a pandemic" occurs when the flu virus in wide circulation has changed more dramatically than the normal seasonal variation. While important to flu virologists, it's not clear what relevance this viral caveat holds for the average American. As historian John Barry recently put it, "The last time a new influenza virus reached pandemic levels was in 1968, but the episode was not significantly deadlier than a typical bad flu season. Few people who lived through it even knew it occurred."
              Our healthcare system - and Americans' general state of health - is not in such great shape that little is left to do but spend billions of dollars on fighting so-called killers that may never come or may not have a significant impact if they do.
              Certainly public health officials are sincerely interested in our well-being. Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the CDC, stated in a telephone press conference last fall, "We've been putting an awful lot of attention on pandemic influenza, so influenza is on people's minds, and I think the factor of pandemic influenza is very frightening to people." One begins to wonder whether some officials might not cherish their worst case scenario, and even see vindication in it.
              There are better ways to promote America's health than selling sickness through the language of fear. Before the government employs "all instruments of national power," including "quarantine authority," as the National Strategy for Pandemic Influenza declares, we need to be told what "pandemic flu" really means. So far, we have not been given the full story in plain language.
              Peter Doshi is a graduate student at Harvard University focusing on issues where medicine, politics, and journalism intersect.

              </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0321/p09s01-coop.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                Gaudia is reporting in from Egypt. To read that thread, look here in breaking news:
                http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...ted=1#post5556

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                  GR, truly excellent perspective. You have added a totally new level of issues that I will now need to consider and build into my thinking. The historical issues are excellent, but of course the greatest importance is the need to factor the impact of faith on panic when tshtf.

                  Two weeks ago, I was talking to two friends of mine who happen to be Witnesses. When I asked them what they and their brethren were doing in the way of preps. (thinking they might be prepping something akin to the Mormons) I was shocked to hear they are not intending to prep. They have not been told to [by their book] and they see the pandemic as simply one of the many mechanisms by which their prediction of the end of this order will be brought about. They actually seemed to be looking forward to it !!
                  Last edited by sharon sanders; May 7th, 2009, 10:34 PM. Reason: typo

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                    Originally posted by GaudiaRay
                    The cattle and in this case, the camels, are now getting sick.

                    Sound familiar?

                    As it's ABBF, it just can't be anything but FMD. We yet don't know. When it isn't, we will also know. The drumbeat is now scarey, rather than background rhythmic.


                    EGYPT: Man recovers from bird flu as wave of foot-and-mouth is reported
                    20 Mar 2006 13:58:38 GMT

                    (snip)

                    In related news, reports of foot-and-mouth disease (FMD) in cattle have increased rapidly in recent weeks. Although FMD is a relatively constant feature of farm life, a new wave of the disease has struck Egyptian cattle with unusual strength, say local veterinarians.

                    "Usually, FMD doesn't constitute a problem, despite its constant presence," said Sami Taha, member of the Egyptian Veterinarians' Syndicate. "But this time the wave has been particularly harsh, and cattle across several governorates have been dying from the disease."

                    FMD is a highly contagious and potentially deadly virus that mainly affects cattle and sheep. According to the European Commission for the Control of FMD, the disease has been regularly reported in Egypt over the last half-century.

                    While veterinarians say the disease is easily contained on a technical level, they complain that a lack of funding could hurt prevention measures in the case of an epidemic. "We have significant expertise in the veterinarian community to deal with a potential outbreak," said Taha. "But we lack the required funds to act with maximum efficiency."

                    While humans only rarely contract the virus, warned Taha, an outbreak could cripple the local cattle industry and damage the national economy.

                    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/new...b32e14fe7a1.htm
                    Well, you'll like this. They're not just diagnosing FMD for this cattle plague, but bovine tuberculosis!! Talk about ABBF in cows!

                    This from March 29 (machine translated from Arabic):

                    The discovery of 200 foci of injury by the foot-and-mouth disease disease and the death of 500 heads in Al Sharikya centers
                    March 29, 2006

                    Al Sharikya - Mohamed Shaaban:

                    The fears rose between Sharqiya Governorate peoples from the change of the foot-and-mouth disease disease to an epidemic he eliminates the animal wealth in the governorate, after the death of big numbers from the livestock in Bilbeis center and the villages of Al Znkloun and Anshas the sand and the pure one in Zagazig center after the confirmation of its injury by the disease and injury cases appeared by the disease of the bovine tuberculosis the tuberculosis in Diarb Nigm center and a father Hammad and the supervision villages are Wshnbarh and Abdullah disbelieved in Zagazig center. And issued reports confirmed from the animal researches laboratory a more appearance from 200 foci of injury is by the foot-and-mouth disease disease.

                    In most the centers of Al Sharikya and the death states of cows and the buffalo rose until I reached 500 he headed and the report pointed to the inability of the present serums in the preservation of the resistance of the disease after the injury of the livestock with them.

                    And the educators [farmers] pointed to the procrastination of the responsible in offering the medical care to the livestock heads and that they presented several reports to the operation rooms in the governorate and to the Veterinary Medicine Department but he did not move one of, and they were content with issuing statements by the non possibility of the disease entrance to the governorate as they declared that they will carry out the provision of the serums necessary for the disease.

                    http://www.alwafd.org/front/detail.p...&cat=mohafazat
                    ...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. - Sherlock Holmes

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                      My commentary...observations regarding Egypt of now, which would have been close to Egypt of then, are found here: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3792

                      Additionally,
                      I'll add that the Jews may have chosen unleavened bread because the sun bread is left exposed to the air and whatever is blown onto it by the continuous breezes sweeping the Nile Valley. That's granting them a lot more than I think fair; but they knew the bread was being contaminated by the environmental stuff blowing in the air. It's just a guess; but it makes sense to me.

                      Of course, when travelling, one can't haul along the round, shaped, flat rocks which are used to hold the dough as it is exposed to the daily sun so the bread rises.

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                      • #12
                        FMD in North Siani

                        The foot-and-mouth disease aftermaths in North Sinai the families abstain from taking the meats ..And the ignition of the fishes prices
                        April 10, 2006

                        North Sinai - Ashraf Seweilam:

                        She injured sale movement and the circulation of the alive native meats and the imported one in North Sinai Governorate a senior with paralysis after the discovery of the first state an injury by the foot-and-mouth disease in two of the cows of the comer [imported] calves from outside North Sinai Governorate to Al-Arish city, in one of the calves breeding farms that one of the butchers possess in Al-Arish. Doctor Mahmoud Abu Zeid the veterinary medicine general manager confirmed by the veterinary medicine discovered mentioned the calves of cows injured with the foot-and-mouth disease disease from Sharqiya Governorate in one of the calves breeding farms in Al-Arish.

                        And he pointed to doing the veterinary medicine of the slaughter of the injured cows immediately in the slaughterhouse and the execution of heads and the calves parties and the imposition of a cordon around the injured farm and its fortification by the serums, in addition to the fortification of the other animals the mixing and close to a same the region and the consideration of a better following are the ways of fighting and cleansing until the disease does not spread.

                        And he added: the injured calves the foot-and-mouth disease symptoms totally with the appearance of a severe inflammation in the calves mouth with strong secretions and a liquidity occurred to them in the saliva and the lameness of the result of the inflammation of the incentives with a severe rise are in the temperature certain that the seriousness of the disease lurks in the calves milk the injured by the foot-and-mouth disease and that moves to the human in case of taking the milk of the injured livestock, as that the animals represented in the kids and the goat a subject also for the injury by the disease in case of its mixture by the injured calves but by a different degree in addition to the mosquitoes and the carrier rodents to the foot-and-mouth disease disease from an animal to other, certain the rise of the prices of meats and the fishes under the crisis.

                        And he said: The intensification of the committees of veterinary medicine and the health and the passage by the citizens houses took place by all North Sinai Governorate areas for the instant getting rid from the house birds [probably because of bf], and the surveillance of all outlets for the prevention of the entrance of any birds from outside the preservation and tightening the supervision on the executors of the land Rafah and Awja commercial and the international airport of Al-Arish and the marine port of Al-Arish and all villages amid Sinai.

                        http://www.alwafd.org/front/detail.p...&cat=mohafazat

                        North Siani:
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamal_Sina
                        ...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. - Sherlock Holmes

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                          In India, today, the news is that both pigs and goats are dying outside of Mumbai. They are dying of a "fever". The Indian Gov't claims that this is due to exceptionally high heat. I've no idea if this is true or not, but that Gov't has a notoriously bad track record when it comes to reporting truth about H5N1 in their country. So, a little extra white lie wouldn't amount to much among their bureaucracy.

                          There's a link to the article in FT, but I can't see it at this moment. Here's the link to the original article:
                          http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/C...ow/4493131.cms

                          There are major issues associated with this event, should it be true:
                          --loss of meat as a food supply, which will drive meat prices to the moon, and thin down a pile of folks who can afford to give up some weight.
                          --increasing risk of a pandemic flu entering humans
                          --panic due to blind fear and ignorance.
                          --and worse.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                            Thanks for bumping this! I like it when people can look past religious fervor - and look at God's processes from a scientific standpoint. God - the creator of Science.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Bible... The Tenth Plague Exodus Chapters 11 &amp; 12

                              They are dying of a "fever". The Indian Gov't claims that this is due to exceptionally high heat.
                              Here's a quote from GR's link:
                              "We have investigated each case. A preliminary probe has revealed that the pigs and goats died of swine fever, which is caused by high temperatures,'' the official said.
                              The official could be referring to the temps caused by the disease. OIE info on Classical Swine Fever (aka hog cholera): Fever (41C)
                              http://www.oie.int/eng/maladies/fiches/A_A130.HTM

                              However, the weather in Mumbai is hot this week: 89F | 78F Fri, 93F | 80F Sat 93F | 78F, Sun 91F | 77F. If the hogs are sick and have insufficient water and shade, the heat would be really hard on them.
                              The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

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