Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

[LMonty]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Pert, to answer your second question, heres my take on it- generic pandemic planning would address whatever strain and whatever lethality develops.

If a highly lethal strain causes social disruption, then appropriate entities would need to activate their planning for those scenarios, and they would likely be specific to the locality and level of disruption.

[marcovth]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Does it look like H5N1 is getting out of control in Egypt ?

Edit ... This is partially answering my question ...

http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article2.aspx?ArticleID=210586

[gsgs]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

diversity = how much different the viruses are.

Suppose you have one H5N1 together with 100 seasonal H1N1
and 100 seasonal H3N2 in dual infection of 200 humans

and then you have the same H5N1 together with 200 seasonal
H1N1 in dual infection of 200 humans

double chance (H1N1 plus H3N2) in the first case


increasing the number in the 2nd case is not supposed to help much.
There are biological constraints, configurations (=viruses) where just no
reassortment is viable, no matter how many opportunities.

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

H5N1 is in the wild bird populations all along the Nile. Sick wild bird meets domestic chicken and you have infection. The government in Egypt has worked hard to educate its people. But, it is one of the hot spots where pigs, humans, chickens and H5N1 infected birds are all mixing freely. It isn't the only place, however. China, Indonesia, and Southeast Asia all have the same problem. Any one of those places could provide the breeding ground for the next pandemic flu.

[deerskie]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

If most of the world population becomes infected with H1N1 (swine flu) over the next year, and then H1N1 and H5N1 combine, wouldn't that provide the population with some immunity to the recombined avian/swine flu?

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

No. I give you as an example H1N1. It is both the current seasonal flu and the swine flu. There are too many changes in the virus for your body to 'see' it as flu.

[gsgs]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

they "combine" by reassortment, whole segments(8) are exchanged.

Immunity only "sees" HA(4) and to a lower degree NA(6),M(7)

when the new strain gets HA from H5N1, then there is
(almost) no immunity

[deerskie]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Thanks. One more question:

Why don't they take part of H5N1 and add it to our seasonal flu vaccine? In view of the high CFR of avian, isn't there SOMETHING that can be done to provide at least some immunity to the population, just in case?

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

We don't know what H5N1 will look like when they finally meet. (I am purposely making the decision they will meet, as I think it is unavoidable) And just as now H1N1 swine is unrecognizable so too will be the mix of H5N1 and H1N1. We can't make a vax that will give you protection until we know what the disease will look like. At least using the technology employed by today's vaccine makers.

[deerskie]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Yes, I understand that. But aren't our seasonal flu vaccines based on a "guess" of what the viruses will look like in the coming year? In your opinion, would it be worth a try to start producing vaccines based on the best guestimates of what such a reassorted vaccine might look like?

Thanks again for your insights. Just trying to think outside the box.

[gsgs]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

they were considering this. I think they should do it.
But diversity in H5N1 is rather big meanwhile, much more
than in seasonal flu. After all, flu mainly evolves in birds

It had been established, that we would probably need two shots
and the first one needn't be a so good match, when the 2nd is.

So we could get the first shot from the "seasonal" H5N1
and the 2nd specific then, when H5N1 goes h2h.
That spares some time then (only 1 shot needed instead of 2)

OTOH, they could store the non-specific vax now
and give it immediately when H5N1 goes panflu,
then in the meantime they produce the better, specific vax.

I think, that latter one is the strategy which most countries
in the EC follow ATM

[hawkeye]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

*IF* H1N1 and H5N1 reassort, does it have to end up being less virulent H5 but easier transmission?

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

It would be pretty hard for it to be more virulent for most strains. Just being pragmatic here.

[gsgs]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

it did it to chickens. Some strains are almost 100% lethal to chickens.

It is assumed and makes some sense, that virulence of reassortants
should go down.
It hadn't done yet, though. Although there were quite some
reassortments already (with other avian viruses)

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Can H1N1 and H5N1 share genetic material?

Yes, it did it in chickens. However, if a strain that bad did emerge we would be smarter than chickens and get out of the way. It would mean draconian measures but we do possess the ability to isolate such a drastic disease. I don't think that will be necessary, however.