The "I'm coming to your house" phenomenon-what to do about it

[Jonesie]

Re: The "I'm coming to your house" phenomenon-what to do about it

I live in the country, no electricity means no water flows from the well.

No electricity in most places means furnaces won't run, so whether there is no fuel or no power there is no heat which will cause collateral deaths in northern climates. People may gather in crowds in the few heated areas of town and spread the virus then die or stay home and die of exposure.

It would be foolish not to prepare for this possibility.

A warming center is definitely not the place to go.
I am at present busy buying woolen blankets, down comforters, down filled jackets, vests and robes, fur hoods and trapper hats, fur vests, wool socks, gloves, balaclavas and sheepkin slippers & shearling throws. And alpaca blankets.
Waterproof boots and shoes and wool felt insoles.
Sleeping bags, long johns and feather mattresses.

Most of these items are available at sporting goods stores, ebay, resale shops, and department stores.
I live in the frigid north where it can remain near zero for a week at a time.
Unless prepared for this, many people will die in their own homes.

I was a candidate for "indoor hypothermia" myself, but now I am better prepared. My neighbors are really going to struggle to stay warm if there is a prolonged period without utilities.
I am sure my community will set up warming centers, but that is the worst place to be in a pandemic.

I turn down the heat in my home to 55 degrees for 12 hour periods just to see what it takes in the way of clothing & bedding to stay warm. You would be surprised how you have to dress to stay comfortable and functional.

I suggest that everyone here living in the north turn their heat down to 55 or 60 to test your clothing and bedding. You will go out and buy more warm clothing. I had to.
And with no laundering facilities, be sure to buy a lot of wool socks and sweaters. It takes several days to dry clothes in frigid temperatures.

For those who cannot tolerate wool, alpaca does not itch. And merino wool is very soft. Mohair is the hair of the goat, very warm.

Of course, dressing warm can have its disadvantages.
When I'm all decked out in my fur clothes from head to foot, I will have to cover everything with an orange jumpsuit, otherwise I might be mistaken for Big Foot and get shot by a trophy hunter.

[LMonty]

Re: The "I'm coming to your house" phenomenon-what to do about it

Jonesie, I think I love you....

can I come to YOUR house????

(yes, I have my "Ticket"!)

Even if we end up cold and hungry, we'll have fun

[Jonesie]

Re: The "I'm coming to your house" phenomenon-what to do about it

LMonty: Yes, but only if you are a psychiatrist with a case of tranquilizers. I am going to freak out when this pandemic starts.
And bring all the fuel...wood, gasoline, propane, stoves, heaters and wood stove. I still don't have those items.
And chocolate, money & MRE's & a big Oriental rug to hide under.
I am going to go into

PANDEMIC SHOCK!

IF YOU CAME TO MY HOUSE YOU WOULD NOT WANT TO STAY VERY LONG.

[oddthomas]

Re: The "I'm coming to your house" phenomenon-what to do about it

Few people know about the huge amount of work that went on in the background to ensure that Y2K was a non event.

Ask any programmer.

Very very few people understand the horrific danger Y2K presented on the national defense side of the house. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

On topic, I like what Jonesie suggested about trying your preps with a cold homestead. Although we didn't get much snow in Colorado last week it has been < 20F during the day for the past week and old heater was struggling to keep up. I had never bothered to examine how we interact with each other during cold weather so I started watching emotional behavior within our house and the change in attitude was quite noticeable. Everyone was grumpy and short with each other, things that needed to get done were not, it was overall a bummer and we are generally used to the cold.

[DRJJ]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

One of the issues I struggle with is: "Do I want to survive in a post pandemic world?" The answer is unequivocally "Yes!" if the pandemic is mild, moderate or even severe and my family survives. If, however, the society is totally destroyed and 40 to 90% of the population is dead, I'm not sure that I want to struggle so hard to live. Factors which would keep me in life are orphans who need care and education, people whom I love and who love me, etc. Factors which dilute my enthusiasm for life are solitude and the sheer magnitude of the challenge of learning to live an 18th century life, starting at age 65 in somewhat poor health.

Also, I think that I must form some supportive association with my neighbors. My husband and I cannot defend ourselves adequately. If both of us become ill, we will die with no one to nurse us, as will our neighbors. Under catastrophic circumstances, surviving without getting infected is a dubious strategy unless some vaccine or treatment becomes available. In the event of a mass human die off, that is unlikely to happen.

I think in terms of a cooperative effort with my rural neighbors. The mexican immigrants probably have a much better idea about how to live on the land than I do. I can provide the seeds and fertilizer and they can provide the skill and muscle. I have a neighbor who is an RN and another who cooks for large groups of people. I think that I would much prefer the quality of life where I am part of a team of neighbors working together to survive than I would holed up in my house hoarding my ever decreasing meager resources and staying awake nights attempting to prevent starving feral children from stealing my corn.

[Amish Country]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

Factors which dilute my enthusiasm for life are solitude and the sheer magnitude of the challenge of learning to live an 18th century life, starting at age 65 in somewhat poor health......

I think in terms of a cooperative effort with my rural neighbors. The mexican immigrants probably have a much better idea about how to live on the land than I do. I can provide the seeds and fertilizer and they can provide the skill and muscle. I have a neighbor who is an RN and another who cooks for large groups of people. I think that I would much prefer the quality of life where I am part of a team of neighbors working together to survive than I would holed up in my house hoarding my ever decreasing meager resources and staying awake nights attempting to prevent starving feral children from stealing my corn.

Hi All
What ever happens I doubt that we will be permanently headed back to the 18th century. What I belive will happen will be a new norm will eventually be reached. Getting there will not necessarily be an easy or painless process. New coping mechanisms will have to be found and old ones revisited. Our abilities to adapt, make due, cooperate, compromise and endure will be put to the test.

Abandoned skills and technologies may need to come back into common every day practice. Skills like gardening, livestock raising on a small parcel of land, preserving food in season when it is locally plentiful. These are learned skills that were in common use 50 years ago and in some places still relied upon. I don't believe we lack the capacity to master skills our grandparents took for granted. What I wonder is how many will have the intelligence to obtain these skills and technology before it is needed and be able to put it to uses when it is?

[LMonty]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

What I wonder is how many will have the intelligence to obtain these skills and technology before it is needed and be able to put it to uses when it is?

Thats what we are all doing to a lesser or greater extent. In all honesty, I encourge us to practice the skills to the extent we can- at least become familiar with them. Remove some of the arkwardness. Avoid becoming "armchair survivalists" .

some are impractical to do now, or are last ditch emergenct things tht we wont be able to rehearse, or we are in situations where we cant practice. But you can be familiar with most of your preps, and checking them out shows you bugs an problems NOW, while its easy to fix them.

There's a quote from the recent new TV series Jericho I just love "Are we going to use our imaginations to solve problems or create them?" Early adpters are rehearsing the situation mentally. One thing we are all doing is learning how to THINK survival. We are learning how to cope with supply chain disruption, make do, and creatively solve problems. How to collaborate and form groups. How to use the tools we will have available to make things better.

That knowledge and skill may be in short supply in any disaster situation. By rehearsing we shorten or eliminate the "deer in the headlights" phase....and we wont be wasting time looking for the cavalry, like so many will. We will be DOING and ACTING and PLANNING.

That knowledge and mental preparation makes you a very important asset, DRJJ. That cooperative effort you have planned would make a huge differnece to many. You are prepostioned for success, and have head start on where most will be.

Nothing is guaranteed, is it? Thats kinda depressing at times, especially when looking forward. But all we can do is what we can do- prepare and plan for the worst, hope for the best and make spiritual peace with our God. our loved ones and ouselves.

I can't guarantee you the outcome, but know that you will face whatever comes with dignity and honor because you will give it your best shot. That is the bottom line to all our lives, isnt it?

I'm proud to know you.

[fretti]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

Great thread.

Abandoned skills and technologies may need to come back into common every day practice. Skills like gardening, livestock raising on a small parcel of land, preserving food in season when it is locally plentiful. These are learned skills that were in common use 50 years ago and in some places still relied upon.

I totally agree with this.

In fact, that "ticket" mentioned in the first post will include as least three aspects. First, preps are important. This would be everything from food to medical supplies. Secondly, as Shannon details, a commitment to doing chores that are necessary for the survival of the group. Third, what skill set do you bring or can you contribute to the group?

Each of these aspects need to be weighed as to what is most beneficial. In my case, it's the chores and, especially, the skill set that need beefing up. I can easily ramp up my preps (and have done so) during a time when doing so isn't considered hoarding (which would be buying excess during times of a shortage).

I grew up in the 60's and early 70's and our family depended upon being resourceful to survive. We gardened, raised livestock, foraged for wild foods (huckleberries, elderberries, mushrooms, nettles, etc.), hunted (birds and deer), handwashed and dried our clothes, made clothes from material using patterns, and made our own basics (bread, cottage cheese, butter and such). Every piece of this was an essential piece of our everyday life - and may become so again.

Consequently, the one family that I have invited to join us brings medical skills and willing hands to the table. This will provide a level of comfort and safety for the 2 and 4 legged members of our families. I have no doubt that every member will be an asset to our team and not a liability.

[LMonty]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

welcome, fretti, Glad to have you here!

good post.

Please feel free to share info on those basic skills like foraging or making basics as you can in the preps section, would love to have a cheesemaking thread! I'd also be very interested in any practical experience you can share on the foraging stuff- I'm concerned about that sbject, ive been reading but the possibility of identification error worries me.

[DRJJ]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

LMonty...

You are a generous spirit. Thank you for your encouragement.

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

Welcome Fretti!

You led an interesting life in the 60s! It's empowering to KNOW you CAN do these things, isn?t it?

Many in Alaska live a self-sufficient lifestyle. One nearby woman is 85 years old, lives by herself without electricity & running water & wouldn't even consider moving elsewhere until she is forced to.

We sometimes forget that we have our comfortable lifestyles because of the sacrifices and hard work of all who have gone before us.

To be unwilling to live for a small time as our ancestors did, for the benefit of our progeny, disrespects their contributions. I trust that we will look back to the wisdom of our ancestors and gain the confidence to follow their paths.

.

[Laidback Al]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

welcome, fretti, Glad to have you here!

good post.

Please feel free to share info on those basic skills like foraging or making basics as you can in the preps section, would love to have a cheesemaking thread! I'd also be very interested in any practical experience you can share on the foraging stuff- I'm concerned about that sbject, ive been reading but the possibility of identification error worries me.

I would like to second LMony's welcome, fretti. We can use practical input here on how to survive in daily life without conveniences. If a pandemic knocks out basic services and utilities, I think there will be a lot of people willing to work hard to help themselves and their families survive. What they will be lacking is practical knowledge and guidance in how to do it without running water, electricity, or natural gas.

[kr105]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

Jonsie,

ON the subject of keeping warm, I assume you do not have a fireplace or wood burning stove in your house, so I'd like to office another alternative that is relatively inexpensive.

I have a Mr. Heater Buddy which is an INDOOR portable propane heater. It takes the standard, small green propane bottles, but can be adapted to larger propane bottles.

While the list price is over $100 -- if you google it and compare prices you should be able to pick on up for around $70.

Over at Plan for Pandemic, a member posted instructions for making a barrel stove but I'm not sure if you can use it indoors - do take a look under the prepping section.

Check overstock.com for their down prices -- they were the best that I found.

Best wishes,
kr105

[LMonty]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

I have one too, kr105, I bought it for just that reason in case of short term emergency. We were going to put in a wood heater this winter, but decided to sell the house instead, so I will use that if needed. You do need to store a lot of propane, for long term use, and the small bottlles run out fast, but there is an adapter for larger bottles.

[cartski]

Re: The &quot;I'm coming to your house&quot; phenomenon-what to do about it

Hello,

I've only scanned this disturbing thread. The Y2K comparison and its "crying wolf" effect is also very disturbing. I've also wondered about other analogies that are formally or informally being made. For example, I read yesterday the SARS Commission in Ontario, in Part 1, in which some issues between the handling of SARS and h2h pandemic were compared. Yet I've also seen business documents that equate the SARS outbreak with a h2h pandemic (erroneous, placatory and dangerous, IMO).

So I wonder if somewhere in the preparation or planning universe a set of simple # by 2 tables have been created that elucidate major scientific and social issues (fields or rows) between 2 situations (columns). For example: SARS vs. h2h pandemic; avian influenza vs. h2h pandemic; Y2K vs. epidemic; 1918 pandemic vs. 200? pandemic.

Sandman has used this idea, somwewhat, in his discussion of dillemas in risk communication, although he uses paragraphs where I'm thinking of something more terse.

The overall idea is that such a table could become a ready source of speaking notes for when persuasive arguments (or debunking) are needed.

Thanks,

J.