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Health Minister Siti Fadillah Supari couldn't have been louder when she shouted "No" to the extension of the agreement with the United States Naval Medical Research Unit 2 (Namru-2) at a hearing with lawmakers here on Wednesday.
However, she was puzzled when asked how the President really felt about it. "I've told the President the lab's useless, the cooperation degrades our sovereignty and it should be shut down. He told me to shut it if I think it's no use. But I can't say about his conversations with other people."
The House of Representatives' Commission I overseeing defense, information and foreign affairs heard Wednesday from related ministries on Namru-2's operations in Indonesia.
Foreign Minister Hassan Wirajuda had said Monday that Indonesia and the United States, which says the lab does not do intelligence work and is helpful to Indonesia's health sector, would start talks on its status next month, amid widespread calls for its closure.
Siti wasn't out on a limb in calling for closure.
Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said at the hearing that his ministry recommended the lab should be shut due to lack of transparency and because its presence was not in the national interest.
Indonesian Military (TNI) chief Gen. Djoko Santoso said the lab, which was started in 1970, had not handed in any reports on its activities to the TNI since 1996.
"If this agreement is to continue, the military wants to see conditions imposed. For instance, traveling researchers must go through clearance, and they need to register and operate with lines of accountability that we can monitor," Djoko said.
Namru-2 is a facility under the United States navy, but its counterpart is the Health Ministry.
The military says the U.S. has turned Namru-2 from a local unit into a regional command facility that handles research work in various countries, thus making monitoring difficult.
While State Minister for Research and Technology Koesmayanto Kadiman didn't specify opposition to the lab, he did list Indonesian labs that were internationally recognized and even superior to Namru-2 in some respects.
Calls for Namru-2 to close have been made since the 1990s.
There was a call to end the establishing agreement in a letter from then foreign minister Alwi Shihab in January 2000. But two months later, then president Abdurrahman Wahid agreed to resume talks for a new agreement, which has yet to materialize.
Although the establishment agreement expired in 2005, the present position apparently is that Namru-2 can continue to operate until a new agreement is reached on its status.
These collective reservations about Namru-2 left a number of House members confused, wondering if the President was being indecisive about the continuing operation of Namru-2.
"I'm trying to see the logic here. If the Health Ministry, the counterpart and the end-user, strongly believes Namru-2 is useless to Indonesia, then why is the government working on renewing the agreement?" lawmaker Yusron Ihza Mahendra said.
Lawmaker Jeffrey Massie said, "Where's the President on this issue? Why hasn't he actually made up his mind if the Health Ministry is here today, insisting that Namru-2 must be shut?"
> If this agreement is to continue, the military wants to see conditions imposed.
sure. Negotiate on the conditions
> I'm trying to see the logic here. If the Health Ministry, the counterpart and the end-user,
> strongly believes Namru-2 is useless to Indonesia,
if it thinks so, then why can't it formulate the reasons ? Why doesn't it formulate
its conditions for continuation instead of requiring it to be shut down ?
> then why is the government working
> on renewing the agreement?" lawmaker Yusron Ihza Mahendra said.
it can't harm. If the work on renewing fails, they can still close it, so what ?
Negotiation can't be a mistake.
> Lawmaker Jeffrey Massie said, "Where's the President on this issue? Why hasn't he actually
> made up his mind if the Health Ministry is here today, insisting that Namru-2 must be shut?"
maybe the health minister is somehow biased ?
Why is it important to hurry on this issue ?
Jakarta, (ANTARA News) - National Defense Forces (TNI) Chief Gen Djoko Santoso has suggested that the Indonesian government renegotiate its cooperation with the US Naval Medical Research Unit-2 (NAMRU-2).
Speaking to the press after attending a function marking the swearing-in of constitutional judges at the State Palace here on Thursday, Santoso said the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) was ready to get involved in the cooperation if requested.
"As NAMRU also employs naval officers there must be two types of expertise, namely research and military expertise. My suggestion is that if the cooperation is to be revised there must be TNI AL officers employed there," he said.
It was the government which had the authority to renegotiate or stop the cooperation, he said.
The TNI was only in the position to give inputs as it did at a hearing with the information, defense and foreign affairs commission at the House of Representatives (DPR) on Wednesday, he said.
If the government eventually decided to renegotiate the cooperation, it must pay attention to a number of things, including diplomatic immunity of US personnel working for the NAMRU-2 laboratory, he said.
He feared if the government continued the cooperation without amending the cooperation agreement, it would find it hard to control the NAMRU-2`s operations in the country.
The TNI chief suggested that the NAMRU-2 laboratory which is located on Jl Percetakan Negara No 29 in Central Jakarta be removed.
"The current location of the NAMRU-2 laboratory must be reviewed so its presence will not harm our interests," he said.
Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said earlier Indonesia would seek equality in its cooperation with the NAMRU-2 if the relevant cooperation agreement was to be extended.
"If within a certain period of time we are not assured of equality (with the US), we had better stop the cooperation," Sudarsono said on the sidelines of a seminar on Indonesia`s borders here Thursday.
The two sides, he said, should renegotiate the cooperation so that it would also bring benefit to Indonesia.
"NAMRU-2`s operations undoubtedly are useful but the question is useful to whom. So it must be renegotiated. If the cooperation agreement is to be extended, the cooperation should be between NAMRU-2 and the Indonesian Navy," he said.
Among the issues that should be reviewed in the cooperation were the benefits of NAMRU-2 for both parties and the security aspect of its laboratory.
"The laboratory is located in a densely-populated area (in Jakarta), so great risks are involved, especially if viruses have to be moved within a radius of 500 kilometers from the laboratory," he added.
The cooperation, he continued, must be based on mutually agreed terms on four aspects, namely the security, political, legal and technical security aspects. "The technical security aspect should come under the authority of our scientists, either from the health ministry, defense ministry or the military." (*)
>As NAMRU also employs naval officers there must be two types of expertise,
>namely research and military expertise. My suggestion is that if the cooperation
>is to be revised there must be TNI AL officers employed there
Indonesian logic...
Maybe USA better put it under the auspices of HHS rather than the Navy,DOD
> The laboratory is located in a densely-populated area (in Jakarta), so great risks are involved,
> especially if viruses have to be moved within a radius of 500 kilometers from the laboratory
500 meters ?
Java is densely populated, so there is no safe place. Safety must be assured by bio-security.
I get the impression that there are some other aspects involved, which mustn't be
named/discussed in public ?!?
The minister of state for research and technology the Recommendation Freeze Namru-2 Then for the Baru Agreement
Jakarta (Antara News) - the Ministry of Research And Technology recommended the research co-operation and the USA in the medical project of the research unit of the US Navy (Naval Medical Research Unit Two (Namru-2), was frozen, then was made new by the agreement with the principle of the partnership that was equal.
"Truly, we have had the capacity to have the Namru research agency of the same class," said the Minister Of State For Research And Technology Kusmayanto Kadiman answered the question in the Working Meeting with the Commission of VII People's Representative Council in Jakarta, on Thursday.
From the side of human resources, he said, Indonesia has had the capacity, now the matter of research facilities that were needed that is that met the condition biosafety the level free, Indonesia has also had three units and will be increased two more in the Department of Health and Deptan.
The choice took the form of the "previous freezing was made new by the agreement" this was the second choice between three choices that were offered that is, the first choice, stopped the total and the choice of the three roads continued with the partnership to be equal.
However, he warned, Namru-2 was formed on January 16 1970 when Indonesia did not yet have research facilities as well as the good human resources capacity, his formation also at the request of the Department of Health during 1968.
In this co-operation agreement, continued he, was named that Namru-2 will continue to continue until had the side that asked the co-operation to be stopped, but the request must be proposed 60 days before the freezing.
"But now did not yet have the side that ask for."
According to him, the co-operation was carried out because Indonesia wanted the good international partnership.
"Although the co-operation was fortunate him also our origin was also clever, they had facilities that could be used as well as the experience that more that could be distributed to us," he said and added that the USA must have been benefitted with the project Namru-2 because the USA did not have the condition for tropical nature that could be made the location of his research.
The ministry of Research And Technology personally did not have the direct co-operation with Namru-2 because the co-operation was carried out through the Eijkman Agency.
In the research together this the researcher Eijkman and Namru-2 worked to their respective lab without having the exchange of the researcher and results of his research was published together to the scientific magazine international.
The topic of the research co-operation revolve about.. http://www.antara.co.id/arc/2008/7/3...rjanjian-baru/
Indonesia seeks to shut Navy lab researching avian flu
Politicians say the U.S. facility doesn't benefit Indonesia and could be a cover for spying. The move may undermine the hunt for mutating viruses that could set off a pandemic, scientists warn.
By Paul Watson, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 5, 2008
JAKARTA, INDONESIA --
Threats to shut down a U.S. Navy medical research lab here may undermine the hunt for mutating viruses that could set off the next flu pandemic, Western scientists warn.
Indonesia suspended negotiations with the United States over the fate of Naval Medical Research Unit No. 2 last month after senior politicians said it didn't benefit Indonesia and could be a cover for spying.
The U.S. Embassy firmly denied that the facility is used to gather intelligence, and said most of the lab's staff members are Indonesians helping with research carried out in cooperation with local health officials.
The biomedical research lab opened in Jakarta in 1970 and is used to study tropical diseases, including malaria, dengue fever and avian flu, according to an embassy fact sheet.
It has a staff of about 175 scientists, doctors, veterinarians and technologists; only 19 are Americans and the rest are Indonesians.
The Navy also has research labs in Egypt, Kenya, Peru and Thailand.
Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said last month that his ministry recommended that the lab be closed because its operations were too secretive and were incompatible with Indonesia's security interests.
Health Minister Siti Fadilah Supari also said she had recommended to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono that it be closed.
"I've told the president the lab's useless, the cooperation degrades our sovereignty and it should be shut down," Supari told members of parliament last month. "He told me to shut it if I think it's [of] no use."
Negotiations on the lab would resume as early as this month, the Foreign Ministry said, once the country had a "unified stand" on the issue. But U.S. Embassy spokesman Tristram Perry said he was not aware of any date for talks to resume.
U.S. officials say privately that the dispute is part of a bigger argument over sharing virus samples, including strains of the avian flu, which the World Health Organization warns could set off a pandemic.
Before Indonesia announced in January 2007 that it would no longer share samples with other countries, the U.S. naval lab did research on normal flu viruses from seasonal outbreaks as well as bird flu cases treated in Indonesian hospitals.
"Sometimes you test a virus and you don't know if it's avian influenza, or normal flu or something completely different," said a Western scientist who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations.
Now those viruses appear not to be going anywhere for testing, the scientist said, adding that Indonesian labs cannot do the sophisticated research the Americans can do.
"Nobody knows what they are," she added. "Maybe there could be a pandemic from a different, new strain."
In its current form, the avian flu spreads from birds, usually poultry, to humans, but the infection rate is low. Indonesia leads the world in bird flu deaths with at least 110 confirmed since 2005, according to WHO. The virus kills 81% of its victims in Indonesia, the agency's figures show.
A second Western scientist said that Indonesia has many strains of the avian flu virus, and that without constant research, a different strain more easily transmitted to humans could catch scientists off guard, and spread rapidly before a vaccine is ready.
"Many groups have tried to bring in scientists to work in the [Indonesian] labs, and there's been resistance to that," the second scientist said. "There's a very nationalist spirit here."
After announcing the ban on virus-sharing, the health minister, who is a cardiologist, published a book in which she warned that any viruses shared with other countries could be turned into biological weapons.
She also recounted a meeting in Geneva with John E. Lange, the U.S. special representative for pandemic flu, in which she told him, "It is not impossible that there will be a group of people in developed countries insane enough to reengineer the viruses to create an outbreak in the Third World."
Her book, widely sold in English and Bahasa Indonesia editions, also said the pressure to share viruses was an example of exploitation of developing countries' natural resources.
"They also exploited part of the human body from the people of the powerless countries," the health minister wrote. "They took our blood. They took our cells. They took our antibodies.
"And perhaps it would be more dangerous when, in the end they would take our brain cells as well, to be reengineered to create a new generation of slaves."
Early this year, she insisted that the move to stop virus-sharing was necessary to protect poor nations from profiteering drug companies.
Indonesia says it fears that vaccines developed from local viruses will go to foreigners first, leaving Indonesians without protection or profit.
In March, Supari pledged to resume sharing, but only with WHO researchers. Supari said she won assurances that no vaccine would be developed from the Indonesian samples without the country's consent. The organization said it would work out details of an agreement in negotiations.
Since virus-sharing was stopped, Indonesia has confirmed that 52 more people have come down with bird flu. The Health Ministry gave foreign researchers virus samples from only six of those cases, the first Western scientist said.
Indonesia's hard line against cooperation also affects research on regular flu strains, which kill 250,000 to 500,000 people worldwide annually.
Most of those outbreaks start in Southeast Asia, British scientists Derek Smith and Colin Russell reported in a study published this year. That makes it crucial for U.S. researchers to keep working here, the Western scientists said.
- paul.watson@latimes.com
-
they are unable to prevent the feared spying by suitable countermeasures,
conditions, negotiations ? Is it credible ?
require less NAMRU2-secretivity, more compatibility with Indonesia's security (=secretivity ?) interests,
but don't just close it. Then it's up to USA to refuse the conditions.
#186: "In March, Supari pledged to resume sharing, but only withWHO researchers. Supari said she won assurances that no vaccine would be developed from the Indonesian samples without the country's consent. The organization said it would work out details of an agreement in negotiations."
they could share the 3rd codon-positions or segments other than HA,
which can't be used for vaccine.
These could still be used to track the evolution and
spread of the strains.
They don't even comment on this - nor does seemingly anyone else
(except me) want to discuss this possibility. Why ?
There are obviously some other reasons involved which they don't
like to be discussed.
Indonesia seeks to shut Navy lab researching avian flu
Politicians say the U.S. facility doesn't benefit Indonesia and could be a cover for spying. The move may undermine the hunt for mutating viruses that could set off a pandemic, scientists warn.
By Paul Watson, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 5, 2008
JAKARTA, INDONESIA -- Threats to shut down a U.S. Navy medical research lab here may undermine the hunt for mutating viruses that could set off the next flu pandemic, Western scientists warn.
Indonesia suspended negotiations with the United States over the fate of Naval Medical Research Unit No. 2 last month after senior politicians said it didn't benefit Indonesia and could be a cover for spying.
The U.S. Embassy firmly denied that the facility is used to gather intelligence, and said most of the lab's staff members are Indonesians helping with research carried out in cooperation with local health officials.
The biomedical research lab opened in Jakarta in 1970 and is used to study tropical diseases, including malaria, dengue fever and avian flu, according to an embassy fact sheet.
It has a staff of about 175 scientists, doctors, veterinarians and technologists; only 19 are Americans and the rest are Indonesians. The Navy also has research labs in Egypt, Kenya, Peru and Thailand.
Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said last month that his ministry recommended that the lab be closed because its operations were too secretive and were incompatible with Indonesia's security interests. Health Minister Siti Fadilah Supari also said she had recommended to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono that it be closed.
"I've told the president the lab's useless, the cooperation degrades our sovereignty and it should be shut down," Supari told members of parliament last month. "He told me to shut it if I think it's [of] no use."
Negotiations on the lab would resume as early as this month, the Foreign Ministry said, once the country had a "unified stand" on the issue. But U.S. Embassy spokesman Tristram Perry said he was not aware of any date for talks to resume.
U.S. officials say privately that the dispute is part of a bigger argument over sharing virus samples, including strains of the avian flu, which the World Health Organization warns could set off a pandemic.
Before Indonesia announced in January 2007 that it would no longer share samples with other countries, the U.S. naval lab did research on normal flu viruses from seasonal outbreaks as well as bird flu cases treated in Indonesian hospitals.
"Sometimes you test a virus and you don't know if it's avian influenza, or normal flu or something completely different," said a Western scientist who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations.
Now those viruses appear not to be going anywhere for testing, the scientist said, adding that Indonesian labs cannot do the sophisticated research the Americans can do.
"Nobody knows what they are," she added. "Maybe there could be a pandemic from a different, new strain."
In its current form, the avian flu spreads from birds, usually poultry, to humans, but the infection rate is low. Indonesia leads the world in bird flu deaths with at least 110 confirmed since 2005, according to WHO. The virus kills 81% of its victims in Indonesia, the agency's figures show.
A second Western scientist said that Indonesia has many strains of the avian flu virus, and that without constant research, a different strain more easily transmitted to humans could catch scientists off guard, and spread rapidly before a vaccine is ready.
"Many groups have tried to bring in scientists to work in the [Indonesian] labs, and there's been resistance to that," the second scientist said. "There's a very nationalist spirit here."
After announcing the ban on virus-sharing, the health minister, who is a cardiologist, published a book in which she warned that any viruses shared with other countries could be turned into biological weapons.
She also recounted a meeting in Geneva with John E. Lange, the U.S. special representative for pandemic flu, in which she told him, "It is not impossible that there will be a group of people in developed countries insane enough to reengineer the viruses to create an outbreak in the Third World."
Her book, widely sold in English and Bahasa Indonesia editions, also said the pressure to share viruses was an example of exploitation of developing countries' natural resources.
"They also exploited part of the human body from the people of the powerless countries," the health minister wrote. "They took our blood. They took our cells. They took our antibodies.
"And perhaps it would be more dangerous when, in the end they would take our brain cells as well, to be reengineered to create a new generation of slaves."
Early this year, she insisted that the move to stop virus-sharing was necessary to protect poor nations from profiteering drug companies. Indonesia says it fears that vaccines developed from local viruses will go to foreigners first, leaving Indonesians without protection or profit.
In March, Supari pledged to resume sharing, but only with WHO researchers. Supari said she won assurances that no vaccine would be developed from the Indonesian samples without the country's consent. The organization said it would work out details of an agreement in negotiations.
Since virus-sharing was stopped, Indonesia has confirmed that 52 more people have come down with bird flu. The Health Ministry gave foreign researchers virus samples from only six of those cases, the first Western scientist said.
Indonesia's hard line against cooperation also affects research on regular flu strains, which kill 250,000 to 500,000 people worldwide annually.
Most of those outbreaks start in Southeast Asia, British scientists Derek Smith and Colin Russell reported in a study published this year. That makes it crucial for U.S. researchers to keep working here, the Western scientists said.
re:Since virus-sharing was stopped, Indonesia has confirmed that 52 more people have come down with bird flu. The Health Ministry gave foreign researchers virus samples from only six of those cases, the first Western scientist said.
Thought this sounded like a lot. For those keeping track, does this jibe with what you've been seeing/reading?
re:Since virus-sharing was stopped, Indonesia has confirmed that 52 more people have come down with bird flu. The Health Ministry gave foreign researchers virus samples from only six of those cases, the first Western scientist said.
Thought this sounded like a lot. For those keeping track, does this jibe with what you've been seeing/reading?
Of the 135 confirmed human cases in Indonesia, samples from approximately 42 of them have been made publically available. I believe the last human sample publically released from Indonesia was (A/Indonesia/CDC1047/2007(H5N1)) collected from Zulfa (Zuraini?) from Mampang, Southern Jakarta. This 27 year woman died on the 12th of January, 2007.
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