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Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

mixin

Well-known member
The absolute arrogance of these banks! To have come crying for help just a few short months ago and now it's nobody's business what they are doing with the money just amazes me to no end. And that Congress approved the money with few strings attached and the Treasury hands out the money with no questions asked... well, I'm at a loss for words.

Here's a link to TARP and the transaction report is updated weekly. I'll be giving careful consideration to what banks I'm doing business with in the future.

http://www.ustreas.gov/initiatives/eesa/transactions.shtml

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By MATT APUZZO

WASHINGTON (AP) - It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going? But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it.

"We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,'" said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to."

The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions:
# How much has been spent?
# What was it spent on?
# How much is being held in savings
# What's the plan for the rest?

None of the banks provided specific answers.

"We're not providing dollar-in, dollar-out tracking," said Barry Koling, a spokesman for Atlanta, Ga.-based SunTrust Banks Inc., which got $3.5 billion in taxpayer dollars.

Lawmakers summoned bank executives to Capitol Hill last month and implored them to lend the money - not to hoard it or spend it on corporate bonuses, junkets or to buy other banks. But there is no process in place to make sure that's happening and there are no consequences for banks who don't comply.

Pressured by the Bush administration to approve the money quickly, Congress attached nearly no strings on the $700 billion bailout in October. And the Treasury Department, which doles out the money, never asked banks how it would be spent.

Warren, the congressional watchdog appointed by Democrats, said her oversight panel will try to force the banks to say where they've spent the money.

"It would take a lot of nerve not to give answers," she said.
But Warren said she's surprised she even has to ask.

Full story: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081222/D957KNQG0.html
 
Updated list of TARP recipients

Updated list of TARP recipients

Bumping this so anyone who is interested can see the latest loooong list of banks; auto industry $ included now.
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

I have yet to see any kind of a stock option agreement for all the bank bailout money but, thanks to gsgs, I have the agreement for Freddie and Fannie. My only comment here is: Did they learn their lesson about creating ambiguities?
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(The govt's explanation for the bailout:)
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt and mortgage backed securities outstanding today amount to about $5 trillion, and are held by central banks and investors around the world.

Investors have purchased securities of these government sponsored enterprises in part because the ambiguities in their Congressional charters created a perception of government backing. These ambiguities fostered
enormous growth in GSE debt outstanding, and the breadth of these holdings pose a systemic risk to our financial system.

Because the U.S. government created these ambiguities, we have a responsibility to both avert and ultimately address the systemic risk now posed by the scale and breadth of the holdings of GSE debt and mortgage backed securities.

)A couple of the more important terms:)
These agreements provide significant protections for the taxpayer, in the form of senior preferred stock with a liquidation preference, an upfront $1 billion issuance of senior preferred stock with a 10% coupon from each GSE (government sponsored enterprise), quarterly dividend payments, warrants representing an ownership stake of 79.9% in each GSE going forward, and a quarterly fee starting in 2010.

The agreements are contracts between the Department of the Treasury and each GSE. They are indefinite in duration and have a capacity of $100 billion each, an amount chosen to demonstrate a strong commitment to the GSEs? creditors and mortgage backed security holders.

Read the rest of the agreement terms in the 2 page .pdf: http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/reports/pspa_factsheet_090708 hp1128.pdf
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

the list is apparantly not available in computer-readable form,
presumably so to make it harder to keep track, make statistics,
be found in search-engines.

> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt and mortgage backed
> securities outstanding today amount to about $5 trillion,
> and are held by central banks and investors around the world.

what is the actual market-value of these debts ?
total value of US-houses ~$15T = $50000 per citizen.

How much is help by foreign banks and investors,
how much comparable debts do US-banks and investors hold from
other countries ?


> ambiguities in their Congressional charters created a perception
> of government backing

uhh, $5T and they couldn't detect and remove these
mysterious,unspecified ambiguities ?
They didn't bother to address this problem earlier ?

( GSE = government sponsored enterprise)



> senior preferred stock with a liquidation preference, an upfront $1 billion issuance of senior preferred
> stock with a 10% coupon from each GSE (government sponsored enterprise), quarterly dividend
> payments, warrants representing an ownership stake of 79.9% in each GSE going forward,
> and a quarterly fee starting in 2010.

what's the estimated market value of these "senior preferred stocks" ? Are they being traded ?

> indefinite in duration

define the duration !

> have a capacity of $100 billion each,

what's "capacity" ?
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

Here is a limit to the amount of allowed debt by the end of this year:
"Each GSE?s retained mortgage and mortgage backed securities portfolio shall not exceed $850 billion as of December 31, 2009, and shall decline by 10% per year until it reaches $250 billion."

> uhh, $5T and they couldn't detect and remove these
mysterious,unspecified ambiguities ?
They didn't bother to address this problem earlier ?

I don't know who makes up their legal agreements, but hopefully they don't pay them too much. That's a pretty costly ambiguity... although I haven't looked yet at the profit the govt can make.

> > indefinite in duration
define the duration !

Intentionally left ambigious :)

Because of the following statement, I think capacity may mean that's the amound the govt will guarantee. "have a capacity of $100 billion each, an amount chosen to demonstrate a strong commitment to the GSEs? creditors and mortgage backed security holders."
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

I found this list of foreign holders of treasury securities in Billions of dollars as of Nov. 2008 http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

Top 6
China: 681.9
Japan: 577.1
UK: 360.0
Caribbean Banking Centers: 220.8
Oil Exporters: 198.0
Brazil: 129.6

Total of all investor holdings: 3085.9

Of which:
For. Official: 1944.8
Treasury bills 427.2
T-bonds and notes; 1517.7
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

1944.8=427.2+1517.7


federal reserve report:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/Z1/Current/z1.pdf

124 pages, .pdf, I haven't read it yet.
from 2004:
At the end of the first quarter, according to this Federal Reserve report, foreigners owned about 40 percent of outstanding Treasury securities, up from 30 percent in 2000 (see Line 11 in table L.209). Foreigners own $1.65 trillion in Treasury securities, up from $1.03 trillion in 2000.
Foreign central banks are on a spending spree. As recently as 2001, central banks bought just $10.7 billion in Treasury securities on a net basis. But their net purchases have risen dramatically: to $43.1 billion in 2002 and $128.5 billion in 2003.
 
Re: Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

#7:
"I don't know who makes up their legal agreements, but hopefully they don't pay them too much"


Or quite the oposite ...

Seems that the quantity of borowed/released money is contrary proportional to the quantity of the needed legal assurances/penalities asked from the borower/user. :)

The higher is the pot, the wider is the tie node ...
 
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