Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtmvMvgfl0&feature=channel

Dr. Woodson, the above link was quite interesting. The subject was diabetes and vitamin D. Two important pieces of information did surface for us. The first was that smog reduces the amount of UVA that is transmitted. So, those living in Mexico City and Buenos Ares may have plenty of sunlight and lots of UVB, they have little if any UVA. The second was a recommendation based on a Finnish study that children receive 2,000 units of vitamin D a day.

It also occurred to me why soldiers during WWI may have had such high CFRs. While I am not an expert on WWI warfare, it seems to me there would be lots of smoke during battles and lots of dust on non -macadamized roads as these soldiers moved from battle to battle. Both of those would interfere with D absorption. It would also be required to stay in uniform. And lastly, no one in their right frame of mind would walk around half undressed during fall weather in Germany and Northern France. Having lived in Bavaria for a few years I can attest to cool weather during that time of year. We have:
Low sun angle in September,
Long sleeves, long pants and a hat
Dirty air.
All of these contribute to low levels of Vitamin D absorption.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtmvMvgfl0&feature=channel

Dr. Woodson, the above link was quite interesting. The subject was diabetes and vitamin D. Two important pieces of information did surface for us. The first was that smog reduces the amount of UVA that is transmitted. So, those living in Mexico City and Buenos Ares may have plenty of sunlight and lots of UVB, they have little if any UVA. The second was a recommendation based on a Finnish study that children receive 2,000 units of vitamin D a day.

Do you by any chance have an internet address to go with the Finnish study? My speakers died--I can watch videos but there's no sound until I replace them.

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Liz, I do not have that addy. The study was only a part of the presentaion. It was a large study done over a period of (I seem to recall) 30 years. I would have to go back and retrieve the name wich will take a few minutes.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

There is an online site promoting adequate Vitamin D levels that has some good starter sentences. It's here: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/03/vitamin-d-levels.aspx

The sentences start out.....




I think it's a compelling article. However, it left out one detail....the importance of Vitamin D and the immune system in general.

.

Dr. Mercola is a pandemic denier. Despite that fact it is still good that he supports health vitamin D levels. However, I do not think that it would do our cause and good to quote him or even his opinion.

Just my opinion to those Mercola followers out there. No offense.

GW

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I have moved this thread into Dr. Woodson's workshop because we are still working on these issues.

I think once we have the details finalized then we can present our findings.

And yes, we are taking baby steps. LizW's press write-ups is the first step toward formal and widely disseminated press releases. It is conjunction with the radio show, twitter, interviews, and other steps that we already take.

Thanks to everyone!

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTtmvMvgfl0&feature=channel

Dr. Woodson, the above link was quite interesting. The subject was diabetes and vitamin D. Two important pieces of information did surface for us. The first was that smog reduces the amount of UVA that is transmitted. So, those living in Mexico City and Buenos Ares may have plenty of sunlight and lots of UVB, they have little if any UVA. The second was a recommendation based on a Finnish study that children receive 2,000 units of vitamin D a day.

It also occurred to me why soldiers during WWI may have had such high CFRs. While I am not an expert on WWI warfare, it seems to me there would be lots of smoke during battles and lots of dust on non -macadamized roads as these soldiers moved from battle to battle. Both of those would interfere with D absorption. It would also be required to stay in uniform. And lastly, no one in their right frame of mind would walk around half undressed during fall weather in Germany and Northern France. Having lived in Bavaria for a few years I can attest to cool weather during that time of year. We have:
Low sun angle in September,
Long sleeves, long pants and a hat
Dirty air.
All of these contribute to low levels of Vitamin D absorption.

I agree. The WWI soldiers on both sides of the trenches were very likely vitamin D deficient. It is of interest to note that despite the carnage caused by the war, more young men on both sides died from flu rather than bullets, gas, and artillery.

In fact, it is my opinion that it was the severe impact the Spanish Flu on the armed forces of all the belligerents that resulted in the armistice. The generals on both sides were simply out of troops by the late fall of 1918. Hence armistice day, November 11, 1918.

GW

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Liz, I cannot read the fine print presented in the slide show. (26:00 mins into the film) I do know the study is in Finland. I also know you many be able to find the D study under the EURODIAB study.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I have moved this thread into Dr. Woodson's workshop because we are still working on these issues.

I think once we have the details finalized then we can present our findings.

And yes, we are taking baby steps. LizW's press write-ups is the first step toward formal and widely disseminated press releases. It is conjunction with the radio show, twitter, interviews, and other steps that we already take.

Thanks to everyone!

This sounds like a plan to share the wisdom developed on FTs with a broader audience. I think this is a fabulous idea.

GW

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Dr. Mercola is a pandemic denier. Despite that fact it is still good that he supports health vitamin D levels. However, I do not think that it would do our cause and good to quote him or even his opinion.

Just my opinion to those Mercola followers out there. No offense.

GW

I posted those items as examples of well worded presentations - specifically the first few words of a couple of paragraphs.

I did not suggest we quote him.

.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Liz, I cannot read the fine print presented in the slide show. (26:00 mins into the film) I do know the study is in Finland. I also know you many be able to find the D study under the EURODIAB study.

Thanks, Shannon. I found some other references to it, and I can both watch and hear the video now so that's a help.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Most sunshine-acquired-D advice refers to full-body exposure, or face, arms, and legs. When office workers try to get their Vit D allowance by spending lunch outdoors, they obviously cannot remove clothing.

So how much exposure time is needed for people who may only have their face and lower arms exposed to sun?

.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Most sunshine-acquired-D advice refers to full-body exposure, or face, arms, and legs. When office workers try to get their Vit D allowance by spending lunch outdoors, they obviously cannot remove clothing.

So how much exposure time is needed for people who may only have their face and lower arms exposed to sun?

.

Florida1 posted this back in 2006:

Because latitude, season, skin pigmentation, sunscreen use, and ozone air pollution can greatly influence the cutaneous production of vitamin D,1 there can be no simple recommendation for the amount of exposure to the sun to satisfy the body's requirement for vitamin D. Exposure of the body in a bathing suit to 1 minimal erythemal dose (MED) of sunlight is equivalent to ingesting about 10000 IU of vitamin D. Thus, exposure of 6?10% of the body surface to 1 MED is equivalent to ingesting about 600?1000 IU of vitamin D. Exposure of hands, arms, and face two to three times a week to a third to a half of an MED (about 5 min for skin-type-2 adult in Boston at noon in July) in the spring, summer, and autumn is more than adequate.

Does that help?

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Someone mentioned about surfers getting less vitamin D than lifeguards, because of it being washed off their skin, and there have been several posts about it taking 48 hours for vitamin D to be absorbed from the skin. Sorry, I can't find the posts again--it's the middle of the night here and I'm not working on all thrusters--but this rang a bell with me. My parents were early adherents of Adele Davis, one of the original health food gurus back in the 1940's, and she really emphasized vitamin D through sun exposure. She used to say that overly fastidious mothers were negating all the good it did to send their children out into the sun to play by washing off the skin oils with hot water and soap. Obviously we don't want to stop washing altogether, but does anyone know of guidelines that would help with this? Just warm water, no soap (which I think is better for you anyway)? Shower rather than immersion bath? Any ideas?

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Yes. I'll remember 5 minutes of noon sun in Boston 2-3 times per week.

They don't say how much exposure time is needed to get that one MED. It would be helpful to see all this information presented in a table with latitudes and seasons, or UV rating - which we can check with various online resources for our latitude.

This should be easily done for nursing home patients. On a recent visit with my elderly uncle in N. California, we went outside and wheeled him into the sun - something the staff never did, despite a beautiful outside garden area.

Thanks - I'll especially recommend the 5 minutes outside to anyone visiting a nursing home or homebound relative or friend.

.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Yes. I'll remember 5 minutes of noon sun in Boston 2-3 times per week.

They don't say how much exposure time is needed to get that one MED. It would be helpful to see all this information presented in a table with latitudes and seasons, or UV rating - which we can check with various online resources for our latitude.

This should be easily done for nursing home patients. On a recent visit with my elderly uncle in N. California, we went outside and wheeled him into the sun - something the staff never did, despite a beautiful outside garden area.

Thanks - I'll especially recommend the 5 minutes outside to anyone visiting a nursing home or homebound relative or friend.

Interesting, that reminds me of something. When my kids were little, the local nursing home opened its dining room to the public on Sundays, and half the town went over there after church to have lunch. After lunch, weather permitting, the attendants would wheel the residents outside to sit in the sun. My kids had a ball--they'd make the rounds of all the old ladies and gents and sit in everyone's lap in turn. They still talk about that. Vitamin D for everyone, and good memories for the kiddies. It probably isn't done any more, but that's one of the old customs that ought to be taken up again.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I'm trying to convert Boston UV rate to Alaska rates. I'd love to find a nice chart like Cartski did for Canada, but even his Churchill chart is too far south for us. There's a nice converter from tolenio, but I'd have to track it day by day to make my own chart. Given that my maximum UV rate is now 5, I'd say our days are numbered as the amount of sunlight is rapidly decreasing.

I think it would be useful to anyone in a northern latitude to know the last ?2 weeks that you could get sufficient sunlight acquired Vitamin D - so you could fill your D tank.

.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

This shows the differences between cities in most states - annual UV charts!!!

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/uv_index/uv_annual.shtml




Graphs of the UV Index forecast and "clear sky" UV Index forecast over the course of a year are available. Use the table of cities below to view a city's UV Index time series for a particular year. Each time series runs from January 1 through December 31. Within the graph, the ranges of exposure (minimal, low, moderate, high and very high) are colored. At the bottom of each graph is an accounting of the number of days the UV Index was in a certain exposure range.

* Note - The Exposure Categories reflect the guidelines of the WHO's Global Solar UV Index

** Also Note - The days may not add up to 365 due to missing data.

*** Also, Also Note - Honolulu and San Juan do not have cloud information provided so as to compute the cloud attenuation, hence the UV Index forecast is the same as the "clear sky" UV Index



The data used to generate the below graphs can be found at the following ftp site: ftp.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/long/uv/cities

------------------------------------

The links are on the site - they don't copy.

.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

This shows the differences between cities in most states - annual UV charts!!!

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/uv_index/uv_annual.shtml

Cool! I wish more cities were included. Virginia only has Norfolk, which is going to be higher than out here in the mountains. But that's a start. I think I'll have to get one of those personal UV indicators and see how it looks on the ground here.

Speaking of mountains, one of the things I noticed after moving out here is that out in coal country, there are many places where the hills are so steep that the sun hits the ground for only a few hours every day, even in the middle of summer. I wonder whether there is any data about vitamin D deficiency in those areas, or similar mountainous terrain.

 

[ming]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I'm on 56N and I am sure Scotland's high rate of heart disease is also caused by vitD deficiency. But thats a bit OT in here.
I take 800iu a day and am waiting for blood tests to come back, I asked for the reading because I want to see if I can take a higher dose. We get little enough sun here even though its light for 20 hours a day in summer.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

........This is because the zenith of the sun is not even that great during the summer for skin production of vitamin D..........

In regards to vitamin D washing off with skin oils...

I would have to see the research for that sounds silly. Vitamin D is produced in the deeper layers of the skin. It is produced at a depth below the depth of the melanin cells (pigment cells). You would need to be washing off your skin pigment cells to get to the depth of vitamin D production.

I would have to see hard research data to believe water washes off vitamin D.

Tom

What's interesting about northern latitudes is that despite the lower sun angles, you can still get a bad sunburn.

Regarding the Vitamin D getting washed off - I had the same reaction, but still posted the paper, figuring someone would present a debunking paper.

However, how would you account for the difference in serum D levels of surfers vs. lifeguards in Hawaii? (Lifeguards are much higher)

.