Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

The excitement was too much for some people. This is a draft and no decision has yet been made. The dialogue is on-going. Hopefully, we will see some hard data soon enough to make a difference.

On the other hand, I have seen enough data to convince me of the necessity to add vitamin D to my regimen. It is up to individuals to evaluate what they need to do prior to addition testing.

 

[Bronco Bill]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hello hornblower

I will make the same request of you that I made of Bronco Bill, only a different presenter from the same conference;

[

And personal attacks on chosen usernames is one of the reasons I moderate on FluWiki and avoid most other boards. Thanks, Tolenio, for confirming my feelings.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Ok. Time for a personal testimonial now. (a bit long, sorry)

I have a very white skin and I live in the bright side of the earth. On vacation I go to my hometown (which has a ozone issue due to bad agriculture habits - it's not a guess. The public health service deals with skin cancer in that region much more often than other areas and has some public policies about it. Scientifically proved already by some studies - you really can fell the sun burning you there, not fun at all and it's not a way of making money, I assure you. Great part of people there cannot afford sunblocks. Ozone varies, it's true, but not that much).

Must say that my grandparents generation took a lot of sun, they usually would spend great part outside with no sunblock. But they usually would use hats and clothes, cotton long sleeves. My grandparents had skin cancer after their 70's. My parents never used sunblocks in early years, they used go to beach and get burned, yes burned. That was the fashion trends those days. So they spend great part of their summer vacation on burning skins. They got cancer after their 50's (specially my father who had a job which he would be exposed to sun for long periods - he did not use hat or long sleeves also - as my grandpa). Maybe we should study fashion and health.

The more serious case is my dad, very white skin, almost no protection all his life, long periods of exposure. My mother is more brunet type and get some tan when at sun, she already got some skin cancer, but not that serious. My grandpas had them, but very light (both died in his 90's).

Since I genetically have a great chance of having skin cancer (I'm as white as dad) I should be wearing a great sunblock, right? That was what my dermato told me and confirmed my parents docs. So, some years ago I started using a sunblock religiously for one strait week, a very powerful one. After one week I was looking like a dead person, my skin was almost translucent! So I just quit it. I don't think that something that makes you look sick can be healthy (no, I did not told mom that I quit it ). Just pure common sense. I do put sunblock if I'm at beach or some similar place, when I'll stay longer at sunlight and when I go to my home town (seriously, I can't stand being in the sun for 10 min there). I do avoid having sun burns, which is wise, but I do not care about sunblock in a daily bases. I work mostly at home and I'm not exposed to sun so often. Sometimes I will put on some make up which has a factor 6 or 8 of protection. Not much, but enough. So I guess that if we be a little wise as our granpas, we can have a long life... some protection but not too much, real food and washing hands every time you arrive home, before meals and after using the toilet (funny, just remembered that at my grandpas house they had an extra sink outside the bathroom just for washing hands)... time to rethink lifestyle...

Me too TG, I like you have fair skin and it is hard to be in the sun for very long at all. Think about that though. Our bodies are telling us that we don't need much sun to get what it needs from the sun, which is healthy levels of vitamin D.

To digress, something that I love to do, it is important to remember that all humans come "out of Africa". We all started out black as coal. Thorough the influence of evolution and adaption to the lower sun conditions present at higher latitudes, the lighter skinned among us were favored and they triumped genetically over our darker ancestors to become us.

Humans with lower levels of skin pigment are able to obtain healthy levels of vitamin D with much less sun exposure than those of us with more skin pigment. This is a simple fact. So, when you say that you have a hard time being in the sun for more than 10 minutes, well listen to yourself. You are giving yourself very good advice. In fact, the right advice.

Get those 10 minutes and not a moment more. After this exposure, put on the sunscreen and cover yourself or go inside. This makes tremendous sense to me. Doing so will give you all the benefits of vitamin D and few of the skin cancer risks. Each to their own.

GW

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Bronco am I missing something? I see no personal comments here. Personal attacks are strickly forbidden here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tolenio
Hello hornblower

I will make the same request of you that I made of Buffalo Bill, only a different presenter from the same conference;

[

And personal attacks on chosen usernames is one of the reasons I moderate on FluWiki and avoid most other boards. Thanks, Tolenio, for confirming my feelings.

​

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Me too. I do not see any personal attacks. We do not allow any bashing/personal attacks.

In fact, we get bashed all the time because we are a moderated forum.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

The first few words or sentence will either grab someone's interest or loose them.

The one fact that resonated with me was learning the Vitamin D levels of the surfer and lifeguard - people who are outside as much as our ancestors. I'm pitching my family & friends about Vitamin D by comparing the normal levels of our working-outdoors ancestors (using the surfer/lifeguard numbers) with the meager levels today. I think it's easy for people to grasp the concept that modern lifestyles are unhealthy. Trying to peddle another pill sounds like pitching the latest gimmick. After they're onboard with the concept that we're not naturally getting the levels our bodies were intended to have, then I can fill in with detailed numbers.

My point being.....if we can include a comparison to our historically-outdoors life in just a few words, I think it would result in better acceptance of the whole idea that we need to increase Vitamin D levels.

.

I think that the consensus among the vitamin D experts like Dr. Heaney that our ancestors had much higher levels of vitamin D than modern people do is an important point that should be added to the long article. If this was good for our ancestors it was probably good for us as well.

GW

 

[prepdeb]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I was wondering the same thing Shannon.

The only thing I can see is being mistakenly referred to as Buffalo Bill instead of Bronco Bill, which was no doubt an honest error.

No hidden meaning that's obvious to me.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I will edit to the correct spelling to be sure.

Again, we do not allow any derogatory remarks or comments.

 

[Bronco Bill]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Yeah. Okay Shannon. I've used Bronco Bill since I drove a Ford Bronco in 1989. That's been my handle for many years. People have intentionally mis-used, mis-quoted, and mis-typed that name for several reasons.
If you check animal nomenclature, you'll find that it's very difficult to mistake a Bronco for a Buffalo.
An honest error? Maybe. But most likely a side-swipe by a user who is simply trying to be quietly snide.
Y'all have a nice day now, y'hear?

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Bill - The first couple of times that user mentioned your name, he spelled it correctly. I have edited the 3rd reference.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Very interesting - and yet you have no problem making assertions without referencing official medical source or papers yourself.

I believe if you read through the various discussion threads, you will find plenty of study & paper references.

Tut tut TMV. BB has provided us with very important feedback. We need to heed this and while your plan was to include these references in the PR, someone has obviously jumped the gun and spammed the work we did on your thread prematurely.

The result? A friend, BB, comes to us and tells us honestly what his response to it was. We need to thank him on two counts. The first is that he has shared with us that someone has violated our FT confidentiality by spamming the DRAFT to those within the wider flublogia community. The second is even more important, while the information provided might have been correct, the lack of peer reviewed references to back up the statements made in the documents makes them lack credibility.

What this means to me is that we need to go back to your original thread and pull out all the excellent peer reviewed articles that substantiate the comments and claims made in the documents. Then we need to go through these and pick the best of breed and include them as an attachment to the one page summary and as references for the long document.

This was your and my plan all along but apparently someone has jumped the gun by sending out our DRAFT to people like the pandemic stalwart, Bronco Bill who had the kindness to come here and tell us about it.

Rather than criticizing him for both kindnesses, we should applaud him and listen to his comments and take them to heart. Most of us have known BB for many years and we know where his heart is and I can attest that "he be with us".

GW

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hi

In regards to vitamin D and arthritis;



However this article may be incorrect from the standpoint of "anti-inflammatory " versus "moderates immune response to normal levles".

Do not think of anti-inflammatory as in Ibuprofen but rather an immune system returning to normal.

I have a small ligiment problem in my right rotar cuff. It was painful to move in certain directions. When I began supplementing with vitamin D the discomfort and pain vanished and I can use it normally. I had supplemented vitamin D over the winter at 3,000 iu daily but upon completing my vitamin D research changed my daily to 8,000 iu. It was at 8,000 iu the shoulder improved after 2 years of being sore. My dose is so high due to my fat stores which are making the vitamin D less bioavailable.





Tom

Thanks Tom, I agree that the long document should include the fact that those of us that are overweight or obese need more vitamin D than those with normal weights. You have already provided peer review documentation regarding this. Would you consider writing a few paragraphs that addresses this as well as suggesting appropriate references. If so, thanks.

Your anecdotal report of improvement in your shoulder discomfort is interesting but not necessarily proof of a relationship between your personal experience and change in vitamin D intake. What I suggest is that you consider researching this issue within the peer review medical literature and see if you can find support for there being a relation between musculoskelital pain or symptoms of osteoarthritis and vitamin D levels. If you can discover these, then it would also be worthy of inclusion within the long document and guess what, it would be a great service to me if you would write up a couple of paragraphs for the long document summarizing this data as well as providing the appropriate references.

Thanks,

GW

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I am sincerely sorry for the error. It truly was an honest mistake. I have no idea who you are nor, did I know you were a mod on another forum until you posted the information. I have absolutely no reason to attack you on any level. Please accept my apology. We do not (and that includes the moderators) allow any bashing.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Yeah. Okay Shannon. I've used Bronco Bill since I drove a Ford Bronco in 1989. That's been my handle for many years. People have intentionally mis-used, mis-quoted, and mis-typed that name for several reasons.
If you check animal nomenclature, you'll find that it's very difficult to mistake a Bronco for a Buffalo.
An honest error? Maybe. But most likely a side-swipe by a user who is simply trying to be quietly snide.
Y'all have a nice day now, y'hear?

Dearest BB, I have the most respect for the honorable American Bison. What a great creature! My read of Shannon's Freudian slip was how much she respects you rather than some attempt to depreciate you.

We all respect you BB. Your contributions to furthering our understanding of the risks we all share from pandemic influenza is well known.

You are a pandemic hero we all respect Bill and depend on. Thanks for all you have done.

GW

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

There is an online site promoting adequate Vitamin D levels that has some good starter sentences. It's here: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/03/vitamin-d-levels.aspx

The sentences start out.....

Our children need help. Many of them are suffering...
Many adults need help too. ....deficency is an epidemic.....
.
.
Perhaps the most compelling reasons to keep our Vitamin D levels above 40.....is a naturalistic one. Humans have spent almost 2 million years on earth, almost all that time we were naked around Equatorial Africa. Vitamin D levels of lifeguards (almost naked in the sun) and humans living in high agricutural societies near the equator (Brazil) both have VitaminD levels in excess of 40 ng/ml........

I think it's a compelling article. However, it left out one detail....the importance of Vitamin D and the immune system in general.

.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

One of the references in the above article:

High prevalence of vitamin D insufficiency in healthy elderly people living at home in Argentina.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14749755?dopt=Abstract

(sorry if this has been previously posted)

.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

What a day!

The DRAMA, my God what DRAMA and all unnecessary.

I it pretty obvious that we on this thread and on FTs need to keep what happens on FTs here especially when there is any reference to FT within what is sent to those outside FTs.

The rules have been in place since the inception of the site and must be respected by all or it could harm the reputation our site has earned through the hard work of vetting every item LizW sends out to the wider world from our site.

We all must respect this process and abide by it or see our site become relegated to the trash bin wild eyed Internet sites that no one pays attention to.

The choice is ours. Please keep this in mind. FTs has and can be an important site where important issues related to the current pandemic and future ones can be discussed in an open forum. A site that is visited by many within the scientific, medical, and public health community worldwide for the incisive views that can only be found here. While our members include these same folks, they are also composed of those from many other critical backgrounds that include the physical sciences, the arts, public service, and just plain folks. The diversity of views represented at FT is what makes it such a strong site. What's more while our members may stem the range between the rocket scientist and the stone masons, all have educated themselves about pandemic flu and all have a view that is it important to hear and ponder.

FTs makes this possible and why I come here to hear what the members have to say, become introduced to new ideas, and with others participate in the process of group discovery about an important new concept like the value of vitamin D for influenza mitigation. FTs is a jewel and one all of us need to do what we can to protect and treasure.

Grattan Woodson, MD

 

[Lizw]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

The rules have been in place since the inception of the site and must be respected by all or it could harm the reputation our site has earned through the hard work of vetting every item LizW sends out to the wider world from our site.

Perhaps I should correct a possible misapprehension. I don't actually send out press releases to anyone, though I'd be willing to do that if Sharon wants me to. My summaries, in press release form, are linked to on the sidebar of the main FT page. This grew out of an observation from someone (sorry, your user name escapes me at the moment) that just linking to FluTracker threads, while helpful, still presented journalists with a potentially huge and sometimes conflicting mass of information. Summarizing some of the more significant topics gives journalists a concise source of information, with links to suggested additional reading, and even possible headlines for them to use. So the summaries are in press release form, but at this time, they're available only here at FT.

 

[tropicalgirl]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hello Tropical Girl,

Regarding your only being able to stand 10 minutes being in the sun...

Dr. Holick indicates that we all had sun-stat mechanisms that told us when to get out of the sun. He indicated humans generally lost the ability 10,000 years ago.

Agriculture, appetite and vitamin D may be at the root of that lost sun-stat mechanism, but that would take a lot of research. The timing is correct though.

If you have an opeating sun-stat mechanism listen to it.

Tom

Interesting... since I'm kid I really know how much sun I should/can take. My skin just says to me "Get out of sun!" very clearly. Maybe I'm a bit wild but surely not that old!

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Perhaps I should correct a possible misapprehension. I don't actually send out press releases to anyone, though I'd be willing to do that if Sharon wants me to. My summaries, in press release form, are linked to on the sidebar of the main FT page. This grew out of an observation from someone (sorry, your user name escapes me at the moment) that just linking to FluTracker threads, while helpful, still presented journalists with a potentially huge and sometimes conflicting mass of information. Summarizing some of the more significant topics gives journalists a concise source of information, with links to suggested additional reading, and even possible headlines for them to use. So the summaries are in press release form, but at this time, they're available only here at FT.

Thanks for clarifying your role Liz. It is clear that what you do is essential. I can imagine that simply referring someone from the outside to a thread link for the substance of a discussion would not be a very effective way to share with them the wisdom that is produced on this site.

Since we are now encountering a pandemic, maybe the FT PTB should reconsider your role.

Has the time come for us to condense and share the topics investigated here, like the vitamin D thread, more broadly and proactively along the lines suggested by TMV?

From your post, it appears that currently we have a very passive means of doing this. Journalists have to visit us and find your summary to access it rather than our reaching out to them proactively with a PR containing news, events, or discoveries that our members have brought to FTs that are of import.

IMO, we may want to change the way we have approached this in the past as currently we are in the midst of an influenza pandemic. This is a big change from the past when we were merely at risk of being confronted with an influenza pandemic.

While not H5N1, the novel H1N1 remains a cipher that could evolve into a very bad actor in the very near future. Now may well be the time for us to raise our profile. Should the FT leaders decide that the time has come to become more proactive, I have no doubt that any PR emanating from this site would be done so in the most professional way possible. What's more our PRs would be informative, timely and be backed by reliable sources and data.

Of course, the members of FT would expect nothing less of any statements released from this site IN OUR NAME.

A new direction for FTs? Maybe so but this is not for me or anyone but our leadership to determine and if, in their wisdom they decide that now is the time for us to take this role, then I hope that they do so gradually. A big change like this should be made in baby steps rather than big hops into the unknown. MY more than 2 cents.

GW