Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

#12: "The pandemic is here and now, cancer is somewhere in the future."


Ehm, with all the respect to the initiative, I must object the above.

Cancer is everywhere, and overwhelming now, and in the future.

If we could trespass eventual future cancer inducing evidence by augmented drug usage of this vitamin, than we could freely take the squalene based (already accepted by EU regs) adjuvanted vaccines, and even the cell technology fast produced vaccines, or other something inducing flu atenuating compounds.

I know that vaccines are not ready, and that we need a cheap worldwide solution, but if taking vit. D augmented supplements is not a peace of cake, than, maybe ...

Of course you are right T, but if we bring cancer into it I fear that the message will be dismissed as too good to be true. While I believe the cancer part too, it also distracts from the influenza message. Sure, cancer is epidemic and something needs to be done about but we are members of FT not CT. Our credibility is related to influenza and this is where we can make a difference now at this critical time in history. The cancer forums and there are many are sure to pick this story up if they have not already. Lets let them take the lead on that as they are the ones with the credentials to sphere head that aspect of the vitamin D story.

The cancer data will be available within the extended comments and references but, IMO should not be included within the one page lead for the reasons mentioned.

Also, let me remind everyone that the use of the FT trademark has not been given to this initiative and will not be until our mods and editors have taken a look at what the members produce as a final product. For this reason, it is very important that no one jump the gun. If you want to share the information with someone, fine but please don't include any reference to FT until the final document is approved by our PTB.
Thanks,

GW

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

I am no artist, but possibly an artist could put something like this together that would be useful in either email mailings or simply tacked on bulletin boards.

​

I LOVE IT! Would make a great banner ad! Those darn things are expensive though. I know - I'm in marketing. I almost always pass on expending money for Banner Advertising, because it is very ineffective - but this WOULD work given the special circumstance we are about to face - which is a world that is getting ready to be very painfully focused on the Flu - whether they like it or not. I'm thinking we'd use www.Flutrackers.com for the web adress visual, but make the hyperlink a subthread? Maybe have a prominent link at top of page? A mini banner of the image??

In regards to the cancer statements earlier (made in separate posts)- I think a single bullet line mentioning cancer fighting properties is appropriate. Also other health benefits. Anyone have a link to a number/percentage rate study I can reference?

I need to sit down and read the entire threads again (ugh) and make notes.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hi,

Just to show how complicated dosage can be I will share some personal info I just got.

The phone rang and it was my doctor with my serum vitamin D level that we tested 2.5 weeks ago.

My serum blood vitamin D was 76 nmol/L. Somebody calculated on another thread the baseline of 40ng/L was in the vincinity of 99 nmol/L. I am below the minimum threshold.

Do I have any health issues other than being overweight? No. Blood pressures fine, sugar is fine, no chronic disease of any kind. I am simply overweight. I am about 90 pounds overweight.

Now keep in mind that I had supplemented with oral vitamin D 3,000 iu all winter, and I was deliberately seeking sun exposure prior to test (bathing suit at noon). Two weeks prior to the blood test I had increased my daily vitamin D to 9,000 units a day based on Dr. Dowd's book.

I still have not cracked the minimum threshold for healthy serum vitamin D.

I have modified my diet and now realize how important proper body mass index is to the body self regulating, but I am sure many people in the same boat as me have no idea that simply their body fat is having tremendous impact on their serum vitamin D, and what the implications are for D deficiency.

I imagine that very few doctors test serum vitamin D as a matter of routine. I mean routine like twice a year (mid summer/mid winter).

Dosage can be very complex.

Tom

Tom, I calculate your 25 OH vit D level as 30.4 ng/ml.

This is within the insufficient range according to the levels established in our document but not bad compared to most folks.

Assuming this value is correct and I would suggest you have it rechecked given the fact that measuring vitamin D levels is difficult and can vary by at least 20% +/-.

It is also important to inquire what test was used to check your vitamin D level. Some tests are better than others.

As pointed out, those of us with high levels of body fat may not be able to use the vitamin D they have stored. Whatever the case if the recheck using the best lab method available confirms the first result, then clearly you need more vitamin D.

Each of us are individuals and all individuals have their own way of responding to drugs and hormones including vitamin D. Given your results and assuming that they are correct, the obvious response is that you need to increase your current dose substantially to reach the immune health threshold of 50ng/ml.

Everyone is different and this is a fact you can take to the bank. Keep this in mind and adjust your approach to this issue and you will get the greatest benefits from it.

GW

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

I'm confused; is the measurement that a lab gives you on the Vitamin D test usually in ng/L or nmol/L? (I don't know what the abbreviations mean).

I didn't look carefully at the units--I just looked at the number and assumed that it was the same unit measurement that I was reading on websites. Mine was somewhere around 30 of whatever that measurement was.

There is a big difference between the two. In general within the US we use ng/ml but elsewhere in the world they use international units or in this case nmol/L.

To convert nmol/L to ng/ml simply multiply the value by 0.4

To convert ng/ml to nmol/L simply multiply the value by 2.5

Units do matter! So be sure you pay attention to the units following your test results or you will not be able to interpret them properly especially if you are relying on the table provided in our vitamin D document.

GW

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hi,

I am curious... Now that I am burning stored fat if the D stored in the fat is hitting the serum or being destroyed.

I know that the liver regulares this, but I do not know if there is research into burning fat and effect on serum D.

Being fat myself and knowing what we now do about D and autoimmune... Come on all you people blocking your serum D, knock down those road blocks! Not an easy road, but a good road. (smile)

Tom

While I don't know, I would guess that if an overweight person entered ketosis, meaning that they were breaking down fat for energy because their intake of calories had been reduced below requirements, that some of the vitamin D trapped in the adipose tissue would be released into the blood.

With regard to this possibility, it is of note that overweight people who reduce their calorie intake sufficiently to enter ketosis often report improvement in their symptoms from arthritis and other sources of chronic pain.

The reason for this, as far as I know is not known but given what we have learned about vitamin D over the last few weeks, could this observation be due to the release of vitamin D trapped in fat?

Interesting.

GW

 

[Desolation_anonymous]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hi,

Just to show how complicated dosage can be I will share some personal info I just got.

The phone rang and it was my doctor with my serum vitamin D level that we tested 2.5 weeks ago.

My serum blood vitamin D was 76 nmol/L. Somebody calculated on another thread the baseline of 40ng/L was in the vincinity of 99 nmol/L. I am below the minimum threshold.

Do I have any health issues other than being overweight? No. Blood pressures fine, sugar is fine, no chronic disease of any kind. I am simply overweight. I am about 90 pounds overweight.

Now keep in mind that I had supplemented with oral vitamin D 3,000 iu all winter, and I was deliberately seeking sun exposure prior to test (bathing suit at noon). Two weeks prior to the blood test I had increased my daily vitamin D to 9,000 units a day based on Dr. Dowd's book.

I still have not cracked the minimum threshold for healthy serum vitamin D.

I have modified my diet and now realize how important proper body mass index is to the body self regulating, but I am sure many people in the same boat as me have no idea that simply their body fat is having tremendous impact on their serum vitamin D, and what the implications are for D deficiency.

I imagine that very few doctors test serum vitamin D as a matter of routine. I mean routine like twice a year (mid summer/mid winter).

Dosage can be very complex.

Tom

Holy cow, thanks! And thanks for all your other info, too! Now, if only I can get my doctor to test... doubtful (Kaiser). I guess 45 minutes afternoon walk 5x week and 2000 vit D a day might not be enough... :0

 

[Desolation_anonymous]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

DA, if you can get a sunburn, then you can get all the vit D you need. I think 35 degrees might be a little low myself but who am I to argue with Dr, Hollic, the guy is one of my heroes.

Take those darn pantyhose off! Weren't they invented to enslave women or at the least make their lives frustrating and miserable?

Seriously though, you probably get a lot of sun through pantyhose but if that is the only exposed skin, then it may take a little longer to get the MED.

GW

ROFL. Thanks

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Gratten

............ I am working on the one page summary but plan to focus it primarily on relationship between vit D and flu since I think this is what is needed most now. The pandemic is here and now, cancer is somewhere in the future.

GW

The first few words or sentence will either grab someone's interest or loose them.

The one fact that resonated with me was learning the Vitamin D levels of the surfer and lifeguard - people who are outside as much as our ancestors. I'm pitching my family & friends about Vitamin D by comparing the normal levels of our working-outdoors ancestors (using the surfer/lifeguard numbers) with the meager levels today. I think it's easy for people to grasp the concept that modern lifestyles are unhealthy. Trying to peddle another pill sounds like pitching the latest gimmick. After they're onboard with the concept that we're not naturally getting the levels our bodies were intended to have, then I can fill in with detailed numbers.

My point being.....if we can include a comparison to our historically-outdoors life in just a few words, I think it would result in better acceptance of the whole idea that we need to increase Vitamin D levels.

.

 

[tropical]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

#41/42: ...
"Dermatologists have been equally culpable in creating a photophobic population, not advising "healthy" exposure to sun, but "no" exposure to sun. Another group to make the lawyers and media drool."


The artificial rays machines seems as cofins.
Better no raying than artificial rays, personaly.

But the natural sun exposure was also tampered by human ruinings of ozone layer, and poluting the atmosphere.

What was an natural, healthy habbit, 60 years ago, and previously, was ireversible nuked and ruined by polution.
And now we act as guinea organisms, and the various studies outcomes about cause-effect, are drifted by such overwhelming, mingling, artificial inserted, con-causes.

So, because of the above, the dermatologists were right, not the oposite (in some Aussi regions heavy gear clothes is needed for beach sun protection).
The sun exposure outside of the low levels time schedule (and below the ozone holes even than), is dangerous, no matter the real body need for vitamin D.

Instead less or whole day sun raying, maybe to switch onto fish vitamin sources ... (?)

 

[tropical]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Hi,

The ozone layer is fine. Honest.

Problems such as manmade global warming and manmade ozone layer destrustion are simply money makers for schlock researchers.

Yes climate varies it is natural. Yes ozone varies it is natural.

However, somebody learned how to cash in on those natural changes.

Tom

Well Tom, here we disagree.

Maybe an throughout literature read on the efects of the thousends of air, and non, nuclear blasts after the 1945, rockets, shuttles, plains, car exhausted gases, power and chemical plants, ..., will change your point of view ...

 

[Bronco Bill]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

I gotta say...the way this showed up in my email this morning wreaks of SPAM. The only reference to "the experts" is to FluTrackers, a consortium of people from around the globe. Much the same as FluWiki. Understandably, most of the 'experts' do read our blogs, however, many don't post.
My concern is that there are no references to published reports in the news media or from any "official" medical source. None of the "many studies" are referenced, no papers are made available. We only have the good Doctor's word (albeit a good word at that!) that Vit D3 will help to curtail the onset of Influenza.
He recommends to immediately begin ingesting up to 10,000iu PER DAY. For how long, Doctor? And without a personal physician knowing about it? The FDA, and most typical doctors, recommend NO MORE than 2,000iu per day...
Now, it's very hard to OD on Vitamin D, but it IS possible. And some of the risks of overdosing are severe. I'm just sayin'...

Upon doing some of my own web research, I've found the following:

Some of the health risks of excessive intake of vitamin D include:

Elevated levels of calcium in the blood, resulting from an increase in the absorption of calcium in the intestinal tract
Abnormally large deposition of amounts of phosphate and calcium in soft tissue such as the lungs, heart and kidneys. These deposits can cause irreversible organ malfunction.
Nausea, vomiting, poor appetite and loss of weight
High blood pressure, heart rhythm irregularities and increased risk of heart disease
Kidney stones and renal failure
Excessive production of urine
An overdose of Vitamin D in pregnant women can cause mental or physical retardation in babies.
Other symptoms include:
Bone pain and even bone loss
Muscular weakness and fatigue
Nervousness and irritability
Excessive thirst, dehydration
Severe headache
Deafness
Itchy skin

http://vitamins.lovetoknow.com/Vitamin_D_Overdose

 

[tropicalgirl]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Ok. Time for a personal testimonial now. (a bit long, sorry)

I have a very white skin and I live in the bright side of the earth. On vacation I go to my hometown (which has a ozone issue due to bad agriculture habits - it's not a guess. The public health service deals with skin cancer in that region much more often than other areas and has some public policies about it. Scientifically proved already by some studies - you really can fell the sun burning you there, not fun at all and it's not a way of making money, I assure you. Great part of people there cannot afford sunblocks. Ozone varies, it's true, but not that much).

Must say that my grandparents generation took a lot of sun, they usually would spend great part outside with no sunblock. But they usually would use hats and clothes, cotton long sleeves. My grandparents had skin cancer after their 70's. My parents never used sunblocks in early years, they used go to beach and get burned, yes burned. That was the fashion trends those days. So they spend great part of their summer vacation on burning skins. They got cancer after their 50's (specially my father who had a job which he would be exposed to sun for long periods - he did not use hat or long sleeves also - as my grandpa). Maybe we should study fashion and health.

The more serious case is my dad, very white skin, almost no protection all his life, long periods of exposure. My mother is more brunet type and get some tan when at sun, she already got some skin cancer, but not that serious. My grandpas had them, but very light (both died in his 90's).

Since I genetically have a great chance of having skin cancer (I'm as white as dad) I should be wearing a great sunblock, right? That was what my dermato told me and confirmed my parents docs. So, some years ago I started using a sunblock religiously for one strait week, a very powerful one. After one week I was looking like a dead person, my skin was almost translucent! So I just quit it. I don't think that something that makes you look sick can be healthy (no, I did not told mom that I quit it ). Just pure common sense. I do put sunblock if I'm at beach or some similar place, when I'll stay longer at sunlight and when I go to my home town (seriously, I can't stand being in the sun for 10 min there). I do avoid having sun burns, which is wise, but I do not care about sunblock in a daily bases. I work mostly at home and I'm not exposed to sun so often. Sometimes I will put on some make up which has a factor 6 or 8 of protection. Not much, but enough. So I guess that if we be a little wise as our granpas, we can have a long life... some protection but not too much, real food and washing hands every time you arrive home, before meals and after using the toilet (funny, just remembered that at my grandpas house they had an extra sink outside the bathroom just for washing hands)... time to rethink lifestyle...

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

My concern is that there are no references to published reports in the news media or from any "official" medical source. None of the "many studies" are referenced, no papers are made available.

Very interesting - and yet you have no problem making assertions without referencing official medical source or papers yourself.

I believe if you read through the various discussion threads, you will find plenty of study & paper references.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Any misuse of the private message system at FT will result in a suspension of posting privileges.

As far as private messages as concerned - "less is more".

Thank you.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

The following is an unapproved sample format. Comments at end.



Comment #1 - Obviously Sharon & Dr. Gratson would have to approve this before I started launching it around the globe. Sharon, when completed in final acceptable format, you could pop this out as well to your contacts.

Comment #2 - Doc, you are the best man for the job. Perhaps you could do the "Fill in the blank sections". I know you will probably argue humbly against this - but I think you have a greater calling in this one. Pray on it.

Comment #3 - For additional power, legitimacy,and to get more news media interaction, I believe that some of the major contributors here should add their names. I think that some some big name persons who follow this should also perhaps have an "I have reviewed this, and add my name in agreement" statements. Perhaps Dr. Woodson could be pointman for selections.

Doc, if you take this on, and if Sharon approves it, then I will devote some major time to issuing press releases. Both of you think on this. This has been an incredible breakthrough, except that it hasn't. Hasn't broken through into the general knowledge base of the human population. If this collected knowledge isn't shared - then it becomes dead knowledge, and if we wait for big pharma to release the info - then people wil simply die waiting.

What say ye?

No. LizW is our official press release preparer.

 

[Bronco Bill]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Re: Vitamin D supplementation

Very interesting - and yet you have no problem making assertions without referencing official medical source or papers yourself.

I believe if you read through the various discussion threads, you will find plenty of study & paper references.

Yes, TMV, if I had the time to go back and read your's and GW's posts, I may have found yours and his testimonials, and yours and his research. Does this make it viable research? Not necessarily...have there been any blind studies, double-blind studies? Has there been anything written in any major medical journals? Have any medical universities backed your "research"? You can sit there, behind your monitor, and shout me down all you want. What i'm objecting to is you spamming my inbox uninvited. I went and found a link that refuted what is stated in that SPAM, and simply posted.

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Bronco, before you add one more word go look at the original thread please. You will find your data there. If you do not have time to read the data then kindly refrain from posting as if you had all the necessary data------you do not.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111947

 

[hornblower]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

But once scientists figured this out, they made new sunscreens which are broad spectrum and do a good job of blocking UVA and UVB. So while sunscreens during a certain period of time potentially did more harm than good (because they allowed people to stay in the sun longer than they normally would have because they did not start burning), that's not the case with the new broad spectrum sunscreens.

To suggest otherwise is simply not correct.

It's also important to note that this problem of UVA blocks was not global. Certain countries mandated broad spectrum sunscreens much earlier on.

Regarding tropical girl's post that the sunblock made her look dead - well yeah, esp. if you're using a good titanium dioxide block. It's a white mineral ground to a very fine powder and suspended in a lotion. It is a physical sunblock (as opposed to the chemical sunblocks also avail on the market) and it can make the skin look white. Some of the newer formulations have ground the titanium dioxide to a much finer level and they leave less of a white haze. Chemical sunblocks do not leave a haze at all. So if you want to try it again without the white hase, seek out a chemical broad specturm block.

I do think the Vit D issue is an important one to explore. I also strongly believe in scientific, evidence based practice.

my .02
~hornblower

Sunscreen has lead to increased rates of skin cancer. Yup the very thing sold to people to prevent it increased it.

 

[prepdeb]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

That excellent video is what woke my interest in the subject.

As someone with fair skin and freckles, I spent most of my life getting sunburned until a very bad burn years ago when we were on vacation in Florida.
I no longer burn easily, but don't tan easily either.

Even though I rarely use sunscreen, I was concerned about getting too much sun and never imagined that I might need more vitamin D than I am getting in my multi-vitamin.

After watching that video and reading here at FT, I googled the subject and found tons of information out there.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Vitamin D supplementation and recommendation by Dr. Grattan Woodson

Bronco, before you add one more word go look at the original thread please. You will find your data there. If you do not have time to read the data then kindly refrain from posting as if you had all the necessary data------you do not.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111947

I want to than BB for letting us know someone has let the cat out of the bag before they should have.

He is absolutely right about the lack of supporting references, which as Shannon points are there are many good ones.

I thought everyone understood that the documents posted here, both the long version and the short one page summary were simply DRAFTS and posted solely for comments and suggestions not for sharing especially through an email shotgun.

We have time to wait and get it right before sending this thing to anyone outside of FTs.

The mods and editors have not decided whether this document should be released as an FT endorsed one or not as yet. IF and I say IF they approve of it, then as pointed out by Florida1, it will be released by Lizw first. This does not mean it could not be also promoted by others but that is something that should be discussed with her.

GW