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Vaccine distribution may face problems

AlaskaDenise

In Memoriam
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1165918638236720.xml&coll=2
Tuesday, December 12, 2006



If authorities manage to buy enough time to field an effective vaccine during the next flu pandemic, they will then face difficult problems in distributing it, said Dr. Donald Williamson, state health officer.

"The question is how we prioritize this," he said. "There are huge differences of opinion."

The federal Department of Health and Human Services has proposed an extremely complicated system for distributing vaccine, Williamson said.

"I am troubled by any vaccination system that divides the population into four tiers, six sub-tiers and 21 sub-groups," he said. "I am also troubled by the plausibility of this being acceptable."

According to the plan, the very last people to get the vaccine would be much of the general public - 179.3 million healthy people between 2 and 64 years old. Everybody else, including health-care workers, government leaders, public safety officials and even funeral directors, would get it first.

"I'm really troubled by the idea that that's going to be deemed equitable," Williamson said. Dave Parks --
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

I have no problem with a complicated system of sub-tiers and subgroups.
I have a problem when they try to keep this secret who they
are planning to give the vaccine and who not.
I have a problem when they hinder people to legally get their
prepandemic vaccine and Tamiflu from Canadian online pharmacies.
I have a problem, when they don't tell us how likely they consider
a pandemic.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

As a pandemic planner for a city health department, I think it is extremely important to not only have these priority groups in place, but to be ready to explain the reasoning behind the selection of these groups when a pandemic comes. The public is not going to accept, "because we said so"
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

As a lay person, over 65, I applaud the notion that scarce vaccine will be apportioned in a manner which aims at managing the consequences and recovery time from a pandemic in as brief and orderly manner as possible. I am not as valuable to society as a mortician or a nurse or an electrical plant operations engineer or a telephone line man or a grave digger.

The greater good rules here. And the greater good requires keeping alive those individuals best equipped to assist in management of the pandemic and recovery, that is, coordinate and allocate scarce resources, to remove and bury the dead, repair and reactivate the public utilities, restore economic, governmental and health-related infrastructures, etc.

Simple common sense dictates that we give vaccine to physicians and health care workers, if we want them to survive the pandemic and serve us later. We do not want our morticians to die and leave us with "bodies stacked like cordwood" in our neighborhood, feasted upon by rats and vermin. We want public servants to record deaths and issue death certificates, so that heirs may conserve whatever scarce resources remain. And so the list goes on of individuals, who have much more to contribute than I do, in a post pandemic world.

Pandemic preparedness is no place for dysfunctional and overly sentimental notions of fairness and equality. The reason we fear pandemics is precisely because the orderliness of everyday life is overwhelmed by chaos and death. We will not all survive and our survival drive should be directed towards insuring that those most capable and with the most to contribute have the best chance of surviving.

I figure that I am on my own, and given the brutal scarcity of vaccine, that is as it should be.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

My simplistic response: having a decent vaccine and figuring out how to apportion it is like being "too rich" - yea, the wealth itself creates new management problems-but it sure beats stressing over where your next meal is coming from!

We can deal with this. It's a difficult task and challenge for the leaders who must tackle it- but boy, havign some is much better than none- give me (and DH so I dont infect him) a vaccine,and I'll be on the front lines. Without that I'm likely to SIP instead....

That being said, I recognize the difficulty and hope that the public does get educated by the desion makers, and brought into the decision procecss as appropriate.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

and vaccine producers !
And power plant operators. And parcel deliverers.

Hey DRJJ, look at the age-structure of H5N1-victims ! We might
need the older people for the "dangerous" tasks, when the youngsters
won't show up.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

Many people over 60 are still valuable contributing members of society. Some physicians work into their 70s, as do all the other infrastructure positions. These folks often have the depth of experience to make them very valuable.

Also, gsgs has a point - if older people are more likely to survive, then they will be the VIPs of the future. Those of us who had an H2N2 infection in 1957 apparently have increased odds of surviving H5N1.

.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

My last ditch survival plan is to stop taking my thyroid medication. My body temperature will drop to 95 or so and the virus will pass me bye. :D

Dr. Woodson suggests that diligent nursing will be critical to survival, especially management of hydration and cleanliness. With my gloves, masks, alcohol gel and low body temperature, I may be able to nurse sick neighbors, etc....That is, assuming that the CFR drops significantly below its current level and the pandemic strain is not Tamiflu resistant.

Somehow, I will be a contribution. I may die in the process, but I'll be in good company.

Fortunately, I live in an area where survival is quite possible...1/2 mile from a resevoir, maximum of 3 frost days per year, Avocado and citrus groves all around, quite isolated and protected by rugged terrain and few roads, interesting mix of residents including RN, soils engineer, wildlife expert, grove workers, a metal gate we can chain shut, etc. If we all pull together, intelligently, we may manage a fair survival rate. It would be "nice" to support health, rather than death, in such desparate times.

Guys, I am not planning on dying, but I do think that all issues of "woman and children first", etc. are luxury which cannot be tolerated when the best guarantee of survival is remorseless enforcement of "best interests of the species" over "an individual's desire to survive".

And, worse case, a pandemic could take us back to the stone age. Anybody read Steven Vincient Benet when they were a kid...Short story set in Washington DC, 50 years post nuclear holocaust stone age.
 
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Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

Sounds right AD. I remember that the water was the Potomac and the monuments were the big popular ones in DC. And those who wandered past had lost their culture, science and society. Sorry for the lack of specificity. I last read it in 1957.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

Truthfully, I haven't read it, but looked for something in Amazon & found this review - sounds interesting....

By the Waters of Babylon

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Reviewer:</TD><TD>George M. Peters </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I remember when an English teacher of mine read this short story to my class(in high school). Though I did not grasp it THEN, when I READ it MYSELF it made sense. What the laws forbidding traveling to the Eastern U.S., crossing the Great River (the Hudson), and visiting the Place of the GOds (New York City), mentioned in the story, referred to were attempts to coerce people to be happy to live as people did in the Stone Age and forget that there was civilization. Apparently, the young priest
(whose father was a priest) defied these stoopid laws, traveled eastward, and floated down the Hudson, passing ruins of the "god roads across it"(George Washington, Bear Mountain, and other bridges). At the Place of the Gods there were mentioned a "washing place but no water"(meaning tub-shower combo)"cooking place but no wood"(a gas or electric range), "things that looked like lamps with neither oil nor wick"(electric light fixtures).
What was enlightening was that the priest and his priest-father
SAW the light, realized that there WAS civilization before the Great Burning, sought to visit Dead Places (buildings where people had lived, worked, and worshipped) to learn throught the writings) and even go to the Place of the Gods (New York), to build again.

.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

of course, no one would ever get the idea that there could be some
important place on earth outside the US-borders.

When you first mentioned Babylon, I was thinking at revelation
and those (Christian) people who had thought, _severe_
pandemic would start 6.6.2006.

Looking at the other thread... CDC might go into this direction
now to attract people's attention.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

gsgs: This was written prior to the first atomic bomb. The author was rather "out there" for his time.

.
 
Re: Vaccine distribution may face problems

If the avian flu vaccine follows the normal distribution channels, price gouging might be the norm.

Some Suppliers Jack Up Flu Vaccine Price​

By Mary Pat Flaherty
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 14, 2004; Page A02

With many health care facilities struggling to find flu vaccine, some small suppliers have capitalized on the acute shortage by demanding as much as 10 times the usual price.

Pharmacy purchasers for hospitals across the country said they began receiving from various wholesalers faxes, e-mails and phone calls touting the marked-up supplies within hours of the Oct. 5 announcement that the nation's flu vaccine supply would be drastically cut because of contamination at the plant of one of the two manufacturers of the vaccine.

Fluzone, which is made by Aventis Pasteur and is the only vaccine remaining on the market for this season, had been available for between $8 and $9 a dose before the announcement. It quickly soared in price to double that and more in the hands of small wholesalers that specialize in medicines in short supply.

To hospital pharmacists such as Rich Carvotta of Los Robles Hospital and Medical Center in Thousand Oaks, Calif., the price markups are "gouging, disgusting and a disgrace to the industry." His counterpart at St. Francis Hospital in Charleston, W.Va., Nate Kahn, deemed the offers "aggravating -- no, make that an outrage, and I'm one who believes in the free-enterprise system."

Their hospitals did not buy at the dramatically higher prices they were offered because they were able to get cheaper, although limited, supplies through local public health systems that began redistributing the vaccine they had on hand.

To one of the distributors who made the offers, the higher prices simply reflect the heightened demand for a scarce item. Gene Alley, chief executive of Stat Pharmaceuticals Inc. of El Cajon, Calif., said: "It's a commodity, although some in the medical business don't want to admit that."

His company, Alley said, sold its last supply of Fluzone a week ago at between $15 and $30 a dose but could have asked more. He did not, he said, "because, at some point, it becomes bad business to sell only to the highest bidders and get lumped in with people who are price gougers."

In Fort Lauderdale, Meds-Stat offered supplies of Fluzone as late as last Friday, according to a copy of a fax offering. That same day, the company offered a Kansas City pharmacy the vaccine at a price that amounted to $90 a dose, according to a lawsuit filed by the Kansas attorney general. The pharmacy was seeking flu shots for nursing home patients. The suit accused Meds-Stat of violating consumer rights.

Meds-Stat said in a written response yesterday that it had not seen the lawsuit but was "confident that we have done nothing wrong."

The rapid price increases in the wake of a shortage are not unique. They occur daily with hundreds of medicines needed by hospitals and doctors' offices. But the flu vaccine markups are especially acute because nearly half of the country's expected supply was lost because of a contamination problem at Chiron Corp.'s British plant. That left Aventis Pasteur as sole supplier.

Officials at more than half a dozen hospitals across the Washington region -- from large to small, urban to rural -- said they did not receive any price-spiked solicitations in the past week. Toni Keiser, a vice president at Atlantic General Hospital in Berlin said she had heard indirectly of such gouging but had not encountered it herself.

Federal health authorities announced this week a plan to reallocate the available flu vaccine to high-risk patients, but by then nearly two-thirds of Aventis Pasteur's vaccine had already been distributed, including to commercial suppliers. The largest of those are often authorized by drug manufacturers to serve as distributors of their products.

The larger companies are also free to sell to smaller distributors, who then sell to even smaller suppliers that are willing to place orders for flu vaccine early in the season at high prices on the chance that they will be able to resell it for even more when the flu season hits hard. That bet pays off particularly well when dramatic shortages occur.

A salesman for Stat, in a Sept. 13 e-mail sent to pharmacy buyers, predicted this year's turn of events, saying that it was "my favorite time of the year! Hospital beds are filling up" and "all the little darlings are back in school coughing up their diseases . . . " Chiron was having production problems, he wrote, and if that continued, wholesalers "can pretty much ask and get what ever the old market will bare," a copy of the e-mail shows.

Alley said his salesman was writing tongue-in-cheek, and that "no one wants to see kids hacking." But the pricing comments, he said, are "the truth. It's happened for the last seven flu seasons."

Nevada and Florida recently passed regulations limiting the number of times certain drugs and vaccines can be resold by distributors, both to try to control costs and to improve safety and handling. Most states, however, do not have such constraints. And although the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has an advisory group on immunizations that looks at distribution problems, it has no authority to intervene in alleged price gouging, spokesman Llelwyn Grant said.

Aventis Pasteur issued a statement by Phil Hosbach, a vice president, saying that "the company does not control prices charged by distributors to their customers. However, the company does monitor pricing in the marketplace, and consults with the proper authorities on its findings."

The American Society of Health-System Pharmacists, based in Bethesda, surveyed its members last weekend and was told of the tenfold price increases.

Also yesterday, Chiron announced that the Securities and Exchange Commission has launched an informal inquiry into how Chiron handled the disclosure of its problems. The Food and Drug Administration and the British Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency said they will cooperate to address the concerns related to Chiron's production problems.

Staff writer Susan Levine contributed to this report.
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