• FluTrackers.com Inc. does not provide medical advice. Information on this web site is collected from various internet resources, and the FluTrackers board of directors makes no warranty to the safety, efficacy, correctness or completeness of the information posted on this site by any author or poster. The information collated here is for instructional and/or discussion purposes only and is NOT intended to diagnose or treat any disease, illness, or other medical condition. Every individual reader or poster should seek advice from their personal physician/healthcare practitioner before considering or using any interventions that are discussed on this website. By continuing to access this website you agree to consult your personal physican before using any interventions posted on this website, and you agree to hold harmless FluTrackers.com Inc., the board of directors, the members, and all authors and posters for any effects from use of any medication, supplement, vitamin or other substance, device, intervention, etc. mentioned in posts on this website, or other internet venues referenced in posts on this website.
  • We are not asking for any donations. Do not donate to any entity who says they are raising funds for us.

Update: WHO team visits P4 lab in Wuhan Institute of Virology - February 2021

If this is a correct representation of the process, it does not seem sensible. Something deemed too dangerous for a US lab is outsourced to a recently built facility in China. This CDC decision is one of which they should be ashamed.
Separately, does anyone know what kind of lab animals were used to test these GOF virus constructs? There should have been documentation of the procedures based on the work done under US sponsorship.
One could imagine a lab worker selling used animals on the side to the nearby wet market.
 
Also, once lab animals have been used, like dogs, for instance, they sometimes are adopted as family pets by lab workers, friends, etc. I am not saying this happened in this situation. I do not know.

Early on in the pandemic, in Hong Kong, there were documented instances where humans transmitted COVID-19 to their dog and cat. They were asymptomatic and apparently fully adapted.

Please see: HK: Pet cat/dog tests positive for COVID-19 virus
 
In the US nothing leaves a BSL 3 or 4 unless it is incinerated or chemically inactivated. Also, a building that houses at BSL 4 lab probably has some areas in the building that are operating at lower levels, like a BSL 2 lab, for instance.
 
Emily I assume you would not make a statement like that unless you had some evidence to back it up - please do share. Can I assume that you don't think it was a US military bio-weapon unleashed on an innocent Chinese civilians?
 
Sharon do you have any reason to believe that that is not true for BSL facilities in other countries or that the safety procedures are higher in the US? Remind which country found smallpox in a locked cupboard.
 
Years back (2000's) a family member had been working an a lab which received a U.S. government contract to work with Anthrax in their lab. He/She quit because of personal knowledge lab staff may not follow 100% necessary protocol to ensure the safety of the environment.
Human Error is all that it takes to create a bombshell.
___________________________________________________
Safety Precautions and Operating Procedures in an (A)BSL-4 Laboratory: 1. Biosafety Level 4 Suit Laboratory Suite Entry and Exit Procedures
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5092084/
____________________________________________________
Inside the Chinese lab poised to study world's most dangerous pathogens
January 2020
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-...tudy-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
 
Etudiant this is not a correct representation of the process. What occurred is well documented in this thread.
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/118157-man-made-h5n1-super-version
Mike Coston's AFD post can be found as post #138 and my reply at #139 in which I make my position regarding GOF clear.
In brief the NSABB in the US tried to censor the publication of two scientific paper in 2012, which they could do because they were part funded by NIH grants. This lead to a temporary halt in NIH funding of all GOF work and a voluntary halt on publication of such work while attempts were made to reach an international consensus on what should be publishable. After 8 years and many reviews the work was published in full and GOF funding has resumed but with some modification in the review of NIH grant application procedures.
 
Etudiant re. "Plus it seems disingenuous at best for China to object to being investigated when the outbreak clearly began in China." No other country has ever had to be 'investigated' after it detected and reported a zoonotic outbreak within its boarders nor would they allow it. The world's nation states were careful to make sure the WHO could not do this, again if you interest in exactly what the WHO is allowed to do please see this thread. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum...603-on-the-role-of-who-ihr-2005-reveres-posts post #1 and #12 being the most relevant.

Also consider the following hypothetical - a zoonotic event happened to occur in the US and the WHO put together an international team of experts to 'investigate' while the international press were howling that it was a US bio-weapons escape. The team included scientists from China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela and were demanding free access to all military and civilian BSL facilities, personnel and documentation. How do you think the US, or any other country, would react? Even if it was couched as a fact finding mission with US scientist included I can not see the US being as accommodating as China has been.
 
JJackson - I am just stating the official standard for the US. I am not saying what happens in practice. I am not comparing the US to any other country. I am not an apologist for the US. Obviously labs in the US screw up and I am not paid to pretend it does not happen. I have no idea what China does or does not do, in practice, compared to international standards.
 
JJackson commented
Today, 02:31 PM
Etudiant re. "Plus it seems disingenuous at best for China to object to being investigated when the outbreak clearly began in China." No other country has ever had to be 'investigated' after it detected and reported a zoonotic outbreak within its boarders nor would they allow it. The world's nation states were careful to make sure the WHO could not do this, again if you interest in exactly what the WHO is allowed to do please see this thread. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...-reveres-posts post #1 and #12 being the most relevant.

Also consider the following hypothetical - a zoonotic event happened to occur in the US and the WHO put together an international team of experts to 'investigate' while the international press were howling that it was a US bio-weapons escape. The team included scientists from China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela and were demanding free access to all military and civilian BSL facilities, personnel and documentation. How do you think the US, or any other country, would react? Even if it was couched as a fact finding mission with US scientist included I can not see the US being as accommodating as China has been.

----------------------------------------------------------

JJackson - So you are implying that China sees the countries who are calling for an investigation as military & economic enemies? (regarding your reference to the US vs. "China, Russia, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela" above). Interesting.

This is not a political site. Please stop trying to connect the pandemic outbreak in China to anything political. I would be saying the same thing if the outbreak was in England, for instance. Let's get to the bottom of this so we can try to prevent it from happening again. Let's analyze the outbreak and initial response so it does not spread globally. What can we do better? Probably not hosting a dinner party for 40,000 people in Wuhan while the unknown pneumonia cases were growing exponentially in that city would be a start.

The world's general observation that the pandemic started in China is rational. Ask the Wuhan doctors who were called into the police station for revealing the unknown pneumonia cases if China is accommodating. Oh...that's right. Most of them are dead as far as I know.

And forget about deflecting any discussion about China to about how bad the US is. That is a different discussion. I suggested to you a long time ago that you start a thread about US lab escapes. Go for it. It will not change anything about the China discussion.
 
Last edited:
etudiant said:
If this is a correct representation of the process, it does not seem sensible. Something deemed too dangerous for a US lab is outsourced to a recently built facility in China. This CDC decision is one of which they should be ashamed.
Separately, does anyone know what kind of lab animals were used to test these GOF virus constructs? There should have been documentation of the procedures based on the work done under US sponsorship.
One could imagine a lab worker selling used animals on the side to the nearby wet market.
Click to expand...

Most likely non-human primates. Viruses are routinely shipped around the world in spite of safety and national security concerns. But shipping a primate colony involved in this type of research is another thing. That and cost factors are probably why the project wasn't moved back to the US once GOF got the green light again. I don't think there is transparency as there should be about the experiments given that they are NIH funded.
https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/wp-c...ch-15-2021.pdf
https://tennesseestar.com/2021/03/17...laint-alleges/

https://besacenter.org/perspectives-...ovid19-origin/
Where Did COVID-19 Really Come From?
By Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Dany Shoham July 28, 2020
Lt. Col. (res.) Dr. Dany Shoham, a microbiologist and an expert on chemical and biological warfare in the Middle East, is a senior research associate at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. He is a former senior intelligence analyst in the IDF and the Israeli Defense Ministry.

BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,664, July 28, 2020

....
One possibility, then, is that a wild-type virus was first propagated repeatedly in human tissue cultures, and the resulting spontaneously upgraded virus was subsequently used to experimentally infect monkeys or ferrets?one of which then accidentally infected a person in the lab. (The WIV has long been routinely supplied with rhesus monkeys from the Macaque Breeding Base in Suizhou City.)
 
JJackson - So you are implying that China sees the countries who are calling for an investigation as military & economic enemies? Yes - given the statements from the the US president and intelligence agencies and the vitriol in the media should they not be very wary of the motives of any outside investigation in to the origins of this zoonotic emergence. The attempts to try and blame it on the WIV should make them skeptical of the motives of their cold war opponents. All I am trying to do is to make sure this debate is evidence based and not based on the assumption that China's scientists and investigations are less trust worthy than their peers in other countries.
What can we do better? Not make unsubstantiated accusations about gain of function experiments or lab escapes but let the team on the ground perform their outbreak origins investigation focused on what they think are the more likely chain of events. Not pull funding on the research into the viral host reservoir and its animal and human interface.
Mass gatherings, like the banquet, were stupid but have nothing to do with how the virus got from bats to humans and are outside of the scope of the origins question.
 
One possibility is that this was a genetically engineered virus made by extraterrestrials prior to an invasion of the earth. Not a very likely possibility and not based on a shred of evidence much like that of Dany Shoham.

No drug or vaccine can get licensed without going through safety trials in mammalian hosts (normally mice or ferrets) and then primates. All countries that produce therapeutics have breeders who supply these animals. If you do not want animals used for this purpose then there will not be any safe therapeutics.
 
There is not much available evidence left after a year and you know this. I do not care what any politicians or "deep state" think. I do not trust anything from any government, and that includes China, unless I can see some independent data. The type of work being performed at the China labs is known by their own submissions to journals over a period of years. This is a historical record. Just stop with your illogical fighting all over the site.
 
No I think DoD funding of Ecohealth alliance was an excellent investment in preventing zoonotic disease emergence and I applaud them for putting money where it is most likely to do some good. I would be grateful if you could explain on what basis you claim they did not clean the market and exactly what you meant by they left some red herrings and what possible reason you could have for adding "(or planted?)" which prima facie seems to be an accusation that someone falsified evidence which would be a serious crime. I am starting form the assumption that no one would accuse anybody else of falsifying evidence unless they had a good reason for doings so.
 
JJackson commented
Today, 08:20 AM
One possibility is that this was a genetically engineered virus made by extraterrestrials prior to an invasion of the earth. Not a very likely possibility and not based on a shred of evidence much like that of Dany Shoham.

No drug or vaccine can get licensed without going through safety trials in mammalian hosts (normally mice or ferrets) and then primates. All countries that produce therapeutics have breeders who supply these animals. If you do not want animals used for this purpose then there will not be any safe therapeutics.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop with the extraterrestrials talk. This is a warning. Honestly...ridiculous...you are the one "ruining" the reputation of FluTrackers....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top