Tracking World Wide Virulence of Swine Flu

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

.....so that we can begin to get an idea of what is happening

It's hard to get an idea of what is going on when all we get is "Health Department wouldn't release .......other details."

I'm looking at a huge number of new reported deaths across the U.S., and the above statement is the standard reply coming out of official mouths. The other oft repeated mantra is "they had underlying conditions".

This is reprehensible. It stinks of a coordinated coverup, and it isn't doing anything to foster a sense of trust and calm. Nor are officials doing anything to issue any sort or realistic guidance to the public about preparation.

 

[tropical]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

...
I'm looking at a huge number of new reported deaths across the U.S., and the above statement is the standard reply coming out of official mouths. The other oft repeated mantra is "they had underlying conditions".

This is reprehensible. It stinks of a coordinated coverup, and it isn't doing anything to foster a sense of trust and calm. Nor are officials doing anything to issue any sort or realistic guidance to the public about preparation.

Probably.
Because it is the same mostly everywhere.

The "important" thing is to not spend more money to try counterfeit the illness proceedings.

The health sector behaviour is as nothing important happens,
but their role was supposed to be an early warning/suggesting, not only triaging.

Such looking from the structures at the actual and future pandemic flu victims as an immutable and non preventable collateral damage,
at the same time when pushing for an normal, as nothing happens, working and studying situation without any vaccines or preventive drugs treatments,
and exibit mediatic releases of "don't worry, be happy",
is outrageous.

If that's the price of not having mandatory containment measures,
and to not inserting an special "sabatical" quarter of year for all the non esential educational activities, maybe it will be high payed.

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Everyone Please Post any related Organ Failure, Cyanosis, or Cytokine Storm Symptom cases here

Source: http://criticadigital.com/index.php?secc=nota&nid=24908
Excerpted Google translation:

Swine flu: one baby died and four others are very serious

Ocaña reported the first death from influenza A H1N1 in the country. Four other cases, among which there are an unspecified number of kids are serious. Are 89 positive cases and 940 samples studied by the Malbrán.

A baby three months on Monday became the first fatality of influenza A in Argentina. And four others, including children, are severe. This confirmed the Minister of Health, Granciela Ocaña, this afternoon.

The child, said the official, would have presented the box to return from a trip abroad and his health deteriorated, suffering a pulmonary edema, which ended up causing his death......

********************************
Definition: Pulmonary edema is an abnormal build up of fluid in the air sacs of the lungs, which leads to shortness of breath
Causes: Pulmonary edema is usually caused by heart failure. As the heart fails, pressure in the veins going through the lungs starts to rise.

As the heart fails, pressure in the veins going through the lungs starts to rise. As the pressure in these blood vessels increases, fluid is pushed into the air spaces (alveoli) in the lungs. This fluid interrupts normal oxygen movement through the lungs, resulting in shortness of breath.

Pulmonary edema may be caused by damage directly to the lung, such as that caused by poisonous gas or severe infection, as a side effect of medications, or the result of major trauma. Lung damage with a buildup of body fluid is also seen in kidney failure.

NOT A NORMAL CAUSE OF DEATH IN HEALTHY CHILDREN INFECTED WITH FLU. FOR A RARE INSTANCE - NO PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WERE MENTIONED.

 

[wotan]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

NOT A NORMAL CAUSE OF DEATH IN HEALTHY CHILDREN INFECTED WITH FLU. FOR A RARE INSTANCE - NO PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WERE MENTIONED.

These kinds of deaths would seem to be somewhat newsworthy during seasonal flu outbreaks, if such types of influenza caused them. Can't say I've ever heard any such stories however.

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

These kinds of deaths would seem to be somewhat newsworthy during seasonal flu outbreaks, if such types of influenza caused them. Can't say I've ever heard any such stories however.

Time for a quick recap summary to this point....

We've got 8 cases of documented cyanosis or multiple organ failure.
* Early WHO statements of 24% of deaths having multi organ failure
* CDC statements listing Cyanosis as a cause of death in children
* We have abnormally high pregnancy hospitalizations & miscarriages
* A healthy child with Pulmonary Edema & at least 4 others critical
* Plenty of similarities to 1918 & H5N1 cases
* A GLOBAL coordinated official message of "pre-existing conditions"
* A GLOBAL coordinated official message of "no details available"
* GLOBAL GOVERNMENTS mobilizing for a "mild flu"???

Does this all add up to a Mild Flu?
Does this even add up to a Moderate Flu?
Does this all add up to Open & Transparent Sharing of Data?

Are you Ready for what could come?
You will be on you own.
Be Prepared.
Get Ready!

 

[pinkfrost]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Cyanosis is what you would have if your lungs were severely compromised by pneumonia. It just means that you aren't able to get enough oxygen.

So far, here in New Zealand it is mild. I would expect the vast majority of deaths from influenza to have cyanosis as a feature. The multiorgan falure would often result from insufficent oxygen causing organs to shut down. Apart from the initial cases in Mexico has the CFR been unusually high?

 

[the doctor]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re-posted from the FT thread: Victims Family States 3 negative tests before death

Another case of muti-organ failure.

What's more another instance where the doctors treating the patient relied upon the now notoriously uninformative rapid flu test (high false negative rate) rather than the patient's symptoms to decide whether to treat her with Tamiflu or not.

If I was a malpractice attorney, I would have a field day with this and the many other cases of US deaths that contain the same basic facts. Press reports abound with similar stories. (If you are a plaintiffs attorney, don't bother contacting me. I am too busy getting ready for the pandemic to bother with being a hired gun for you.)

These doctors will state in court that they were only following the CDC's guidelines for who to treat with Tamiflu and they would be correct. The problem is the CDC's guidelines are wrong and the doctors remain responsible for their decisions irrespective of the guidelines they followed.

OK, they followed the CDC guidelines but the patient died. Admittedly she may have died even if given Tamiflu early in her course but for some inane reason, these doctors when faced with a patient with an ILI and a negative rapid test for flu decided not to treat her. This is despite the fact that 90%+ of all LILs seen in the US today are due to Swine Flu and it remains 100% sensitive to Tamiflu. What were they thinking? The retail cost of Tamiflu is $100 for a 5 day course. What is the cost of a life? Maybe they didn't want to go through the hassle of getting the Tamiflu pre-authorized by the patient's insurance company, a diabolical insurance company policy that was introduced in mid-May and is now widespread. And guess what? The insurance companies are only approving payment for Tamiflu prescriptions where the patient meets the CDC guidelines.

Oops! I think that constitutes Catch 22.

Doctors must rely upon their own judgment not guidelines when treating individual patients. This is what the jury will decide in this and the other cases when they come to court. Guidelines are provided from the prospective of the health of the public as a whole rather than for the health of the individual patient. Doctors that forget this will pay a great price. Not the malpractice award, that is the small price. The big price is the death of the patient which will stay with the doctor through eternity.

As a doctor, I have made mistakes that has harmed my patients and like the doctors I fillet above, did not intend to do so. These doctors are not to blame as they did their best for the patient. What I am upset about is how this pandemic has been handled since mid-May by TPTB. It is they who I blame for the death of this and many others in the US not these or the other doctors. I know they did their best and share the sorrow they feel for their failure to help these people. God bless and protect them (from guilt but especially from malpractice attorneys ;~) )

Grattan Woodson, MD

 

[the doctor]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re-posted from FT thread: Healthy Woman Dies Of Swine Flu

Paraphrasing this case based upon the interview with the decedent's mother Josephine Davis. The mothers comments are in quotes.

Barbara Davis was a healthy 48 y/o AA female who was well when she dined with her mother Josephine on the evening of either 5Jun2009 or 12Jun2009. After returning home from the dinner Barbara became very ill according to a friend of her mothers. On the phone Barbara told her mother that she was ok. But the next day, things got worse. "She had trouble breathing, and she was shaking. She could barely walk into the hospital." She was so short of breath she could hardly speak. "She was treated in the hospital for two days, but they couldn?t save her. The doctors believe she died from swine flu." The doctors told Josephine that ?They?ve never seen nothing like that, what she had. That infection just went through her body, attacking her kidney, her lungs, her liver. Everything"

In this instance, the decedent is described as having fulminate multi-organ failure that developed rapidly resulting in death 48 hours after onset and despite intensive medical therapy in an ICU including all the bells and whistles.

The attending physicians told the mother that they had never seen anything like this before and I believe them. So did she. No one has seen anything like this since 1918. In 1918 many doctors said the say thing after dealing with their first cases of Spanish Flu and for them too it was a great surprise at least until those that didn't die from the virus themselves had seen it so many times that it was no longer unique.

There are numerous descriptions from the 1918 pandemic that match the one above but no where else in medical history do we find anything remotely similar. This is why the doctors in Milwaukee were so shocked by what they saw.

How many other North American victims had similar pathology? Why have the autopsy and clinical findings from the deaths in Mexico, the US and Canada been suppressed?

I know from press reports that there have been other US deaths where multi-organ failure was present. Is this common among those who have died of Swine Flu or rare? Are the findings similar to those seen in 1918 or not?

Keeping the medical and scientific community together with the public ignorant of the facts is not helpful especially today when information can not be contained as easily as it was in the US in 1918. What is does is raise suspicions rather than calm nerves.

Release the clinical and autopsy data! Tell us what we are really dealing with. Stop giving us the mushroom treatment (keep them in the dark and feed manure on a regular basis).

Grattan Woodson. MD

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

I would expect the vast majority of deaths from influenza to have cyanosis as a feature.

Actually, Cyanosis is is not a common influenza symptom. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, or if there is evidence to the contrary.

 

[pinkfrost]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

I don't think cyanosis is a common flu symptom at all because most people don't die from influenza. But amongst those that died from influenza I would expect it be to quite common.

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

I don't think cyanosis is a common flu symptom at all because most people don't die from influenza. But amongst those that died from influenza I would expect it be to quite common.

GOTCHA! Actually, that's still not the case. I've actually been trying to make some sense of this from the incredibly limited reports they are releasing.

Starting with POST #10 (an excerpt from 1918) we see that it was only a portion of deaths, described as follows:

#10- Those who died very quickly, a day or less after the first symptoms, however, most likely died of an overwhelming and massive invasion of the virus itself. [These were the patients who exhibited marked cyanosis, i.e. "turned blue] ..........But the lungs of the men and women who died two days, three days, four days after the first symptom of influenza bore no resemblance to normal pneumonias at all. They were more unusual, more puzzling."

The above statement matches up with the One really documented Cyanosis Case we've got in #7.....

A 16-month-old boy is brought to Elmhurst Hospital Center’s emergency room blue and motionless, and is pronounced dead 40 minutes later..... In the case of the boy who died, Jonathan Zamora Castillo of Corona, Queens, it was crucial to establish the cause of death. His rapid decline — from a generally healthy child in the morning to cyanosis and death by evening — matched reports from the 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic of patients who drowned in their own lung secretions.

However in Post #9, the woman did not show evidence of Cyanosis for 6 days after onset of symptoms.

And these are the only 2 cases we can find direct statements on. The rest comes in the form of anecdotal comment from WHO / CDC - without pointing to direct cases. But my gut feeling is to go back to the original 1918 reports..... that it will be the sudden onset and rapid death patient that develop Cyanosis - and that is a small, but significant percentage of death cases.


IT WOULD HELP IF OFFICIALS RELEASED DATA REGARDING AUTOPSIES, DETAILS SURROUNDING DEATH CASES.

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

[/B]
IT WOULD HELP IF OFFICIALS RELEASED DATA REGARDING AUTOPSIES, DETAILS SURROUNDING DEATH CASES.

We have death numbers piling up - and NO DATA.
An absolute vaccum of information!
More and more deaths every day, and all we get is "no further information available"

I might as well let this thread die..... You cannot run numbers that aren't given.

 

[Cairelle RN]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

You know, I belong to several flu forums, but Flu Trackers is the one that I look to as the most "calm" and "sane" voice among the bunch, mainly because of the prolific rationality and intelligence that oozes from the threads. I love my other forums, but FT is my fave for solid, science-based info.

Hence, this thread scares the crap out of me in a way that I haven't been scared thus far in regard to pandemic influenza. Ugh. I don't like what I am reading - not at all. Why is it that the numbers info is not being provided by TPTB?

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Why is it that the numbers info is not being provided by TPTB?

Sorry, but what is TPTB?

 

[Blue]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

The Powers That Be (TPTB) as in whoever controls the information?

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

The Powers That Be (TPTB) as in whoever controls the information?

OK.... got it.
I'm not realy going to touch that in the forceful way I would like to. Florida would shoot me if I gave my emotional opinion. Suffice it to say that it is curious. We've got the deaths. But it is perfectly clear that they have woven a cloak of secrecy over details.

And I'm not buying hippa rules. It's more than that. They could at least issue a percentage sheet showing what factors were involved - without naming names. Who knows - maybe they are working on it - and we'll wake up tomorrow and CDC / WHO will have some stats paperwork for us.

Public Anesthesia and Numbing to the Facts is my best guess as to why. But in the vacuum of information - people jump to speculation - and that leads to questions, and the #1 that pops to my head is WHY?

Could it be that this is trending not only Past Mild, and is now heading Past Moderate as well? Could it be that numbers are pointing to "Severe?"

Maybe they are just buying "Panic Time"?

Regardless - I've always believed that the TRUTH is the best policy.

 

[Chuck]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/st...tion-on-swine-flu/FLHfaqINDU2Mru_J8o4B1g.cspx


Health experts offer more information on swine flu

Last Update: 1:38 pm
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Woman wearing mask (Ralph Orlowski, Getty Images)
Woman wearing mask (Ralph Orlowski, Getty Images)
Related Links

* Salt Lake Valley Health Web Site

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - Salt Lake Valley Health officials offered more information on H1N1 swine flu on Tuesday, following reports of a sixth death in Salt Lake County from complications to the virus.

What are considered severe symptoms of influenza?

For Adults:

? Difficulty breathing
? Purple or blue discoloration of the lips
? Vomiting and unable to keep liquids down
? Signs of dehydration such as dizziness when standing, absence of urination, or in infants, a lack of tears when they cry
? Seizures or uncontrolled convulsions
? Loss of consciousness
? Alteration in thinking

For Children:

? Fast breathing or trouble breathing
? Bluish or gray skin color
? Not drinking enough fluids
? Not waking up or not interacting
? Being so irritable that the child does not want to be held
? Flu-like symptoms that improve then return with fever and worse cough
? Fever with a rash

IF SEVERE SYMPTOMS DEVELOP, CALL YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER. IF THE
HEALTHCARE PROVIDER IS NOT AVAILABLE, GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

Who is at risk of complications of flu?

The following groups of people who are at greater risk of complications from H1N1 flu:

? Adults and children with certain chronic medical conditions including chronic lung problems such as asthma, heart, liver, blood, nervous system, muscular, or metabolic disorders such as diabetes.
? Pregnant women.
? Children younger than 5 years old (under 12 months are especially vulnerable).
? Adults and children who have immunodeficiency or immuno-suppression, including that
caused by medications such as corticosteroids and chemotherapy, or diseases such as HIV/AIDS.
? Children ages 6 months to 18 years who are receiving long-term aspirin therapy and who might be at risk for experiencing Reye syndrome after influenza virus infection.
? Persons 50 years old or older, particularly 65 years or older.
? People who live in settings such as nursing homes, residential schools, and jails.

For more information, go to www.slvhealth.org.

Copyright 2009 Newport Television LLC All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

-------------------------

Cyanosis has been added as a symptom of severe flu!

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Everyone Please Post any related Organ Failure, Cyanosis, or Cytokine Storm Symptom cases here

This one is simply interesting, shows "Multiple Medical Conditions" in both cases - and in the 2nd case had a Very Quick Downturn - culminating in death.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/su...0,332395.story
7:16 PM EDT, June 15, 2009
Excerpts........

Two Brookhaven residents have become the first people on Long Island whose deaths have been tied to the swine flu......Both had underlying medical problems, he said............would not release the exact ages of the two people or the villages where they lived.

One, he said, was a man between the age of 35 and 45 with a serious, chronic medical condition who was hospitalized two weeks ago with "multiple medical problems, including pneumonia." He died June 10.

The second was a woman, retired, with "multiple medical conditions," between the age of 55 and 65. On June 6 she developed a fever, dry cough and sore throat. She went to her doctor, who sent a nasal swab for testing. Her doctor prescribed medication for a respiratory infection and she reported feeling better the next morning, Chaudhry said. Nevertheless, she died the same day, June 9.

An autopsy was done last Friday on the woman and the results are pending. ......

Be interesting to see if they actually release autopsy results.

 

[the doctor]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Calm down Mountain Voice.

I share your frustration and have written about this extensively here, on Fluwiki and Effective Measure.

You are right about the need for the clinical and autopsy data on those who were both severely ill or died with A/(novel)H1N1 to be made public.

You are also correct that this can be done in a way that does not violate HIPPA.

Treating physicians need this information to provide their patients with this disease the best possible care. The public health community knows this because many within that community are doctors.

That being the case, the question is WHY HAS THIS INFORMATION NOT BEEN RELEASED?

I can think of no public health of medical reason for this oversight.

That leaves political and economic considerations, which could be the reason that the public health community has not done what we would expect it to do, release the information ASAP.

Frankly though, I don't know why those with the data, and be sure that they have all the data and in spades, have elected to break with precedent and withhold it.

GW

 

[The Mountains Voice]

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Re: Post cytokine storm / organ failure / cyanosis related stories here......

Calm down Mountain Voice.

Am I coming across as uncalm? Sorry - not my intention. I'm calm as a cucumber the last few days. THAT is because I am prepared

However, if I were not prepared - I think I would deinitely be justified in a bit of panic.