should I take the vax ?

[gsgs]

I found the "package leaflet" s at EMEA, listing the side effects:

http://www.emea.europa.eu/humandocs...le PDFs/PackageLeaflet/emea-pl-h832pu17en.pdf
http://www.emea.europa.eu/humandocs/PDFs/EPAR/celvapan/package_leaflet/emea-pl-h982pu17en.pdf

although these documents contains only text, they are only available in .pdf-format.
I assume the purpose is to prevent quoting and internet discussion about it,
Publishing tables etc.


Now, they have some tests, which gave them incidence-estimates of these side effects.
The reliability depends of course on the number of people (animals) tested and the
number of people with these side-effects and their severeness.

However, these data are not told in the leaflets.
Instead they are translated into range-categories and given names ("common","rare")

I guess, that's what they call "risk communication" - translating clear mathematical
risks,statistics,probability estimates, study-data into less exact terms of common language,
which they anticipate is easier understood and appreciated by the majority.
It's also easier to manipulate this way, to induce a perceiption which is desired
by the "translator".

So, unfortunately some info is lost now, how many were tested, how many were positive,
how severe were the side effects.

What everyone has to decide for herself now is :
what's the expectation value of benefits from taking the vaccine for me ?
[...and for the community from reduced risk that I infect others]

average people are not trained to make such decisions. And the leaflet or doctor
won't really help.


so, let's see...

I estimate that with Pandemrix we have a ~20% chance to see flu-like symptoms as with
the real thing, but only 1-2 days.

About 10% I guess of what we expect from catching the real ******
But the chance to get it in this wave is only ~10% (higher for
school-children, nurses)
And the chance that the vax will prevent it is ~50% I guesstimate.

So the expectation value for symptoms is close to 0, which makes
it a hard decision.
And it's difficult to understand why we have so much pro and con but
so little undecided. I assume most people are not saying what they
really think but are biased.



attached the lists of side-effects for pandemrix and celvapan from the leaflets
as .jpg - pictures

 

[prepdeb]

Re: should I take the vax ?

Thank you gsgs for this post and the linked data.
I guess we each have to make our own decisions about being vaccinated or not. The more information we have access to, the easier it is to make an informed decision.

 

[Rwilmer]

Re: should I take the vax ?

That is very true Deb. I personally got my vaccine last week. But it was a personal choice, alot of my friends do not want it. So the choice is up to the individual.

 

[gsgs]

Re: should I take the vax ?

which vaccines are used in USA, can we have the package-leaflets ?



---------------------------------------
For example, in the 'mock-up' dossier that they filed with the EMEA, for an H5N1 pandemic vaccine,
those who received the adjuvanted vaccine reported 50% more 'medically significant' adverse events
(as determined by GSK but criteria unknown) compared to controls who received the regular
seasonal vaccine.
----------------------------------------
SusanC:
... I'd like to suggest that the literature on the safety of adjuvant is both scanty and scary.
http://www.newfluwiki2.com/tag/adjuvant
--------------------------------------------