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Question-Answer about disinfectants

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wake
  • Start date Start date
W

Wake

Guest
Anyone know what the contact time for hydrogen peroxide is, to kill the H5N1 virus against different dilutions ?. Thank you.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

No, I am referring to contact times for H5N1 surface decontamination.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

AD, interesting and kinda scary article.

Alternatively, I'll take social distancing any day!
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

I suppose I really ought to apologise for staying on topic, but I do need to know the contact time for H202. Thank you.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

I looked into H202 after reading the following webpage:
Hydrogen Peroxide - Curse or Cure?
http://curezone.com/art/read.asp?ID=73&db=5&C0=1

In fact, I've been wondering if maybe standard household vaporizers or humidifiers with some H2O2 added into the water might not be beneficial during a pandemic situation. (?)

A couple of interesting research links about H2O2:

The effect of microaerosolized hydrogen peroxide on bacterial and viral poultry pathogens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7816725&dopt=Citation

Efficacy of vaporized hydrogen peroxide against exotic animal viruses
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/10/3916
(excerpt for above link)
"Virus viability was assessed after exposure to vaporphase hydrogen peroxide for 30 min. For all viruses tested and under all conditions (except one), the decontamination process reduced the virus titer to 0 embryo-lethal doses for the avian viruses (avian influenza and Newcastle disease viruses) or less than 10 tissue culture infective doses for the mammalian viruses (African swine fever, bluetongue, hog cholera, pseudorabies, swine vesicular disease, vesicular exanthema, and vesicular stomatitis viruses). "
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Good link emmysue!

The firs one quote
For the viruses studied, 5% H2O2 (...) and avian influenza virus showed reduced infectivity but were not completely inactivated.
Click to expand...

In the second one the vaporized hydrogen peroxide seem efficient.

But I would suggest you 70% alcool or chlorine water. (If you want i'll verify the % for chlorine in lab tomorrow?) I would not trust peroxide exept if you want to breath a peroxide cloud for 30min !

In Quebec's lab, working with virus, 70%alcool and Microsol3 (a lab surface disinfectant) is used as a standard procedure.

Mingus
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Thank you both for your reply. In UK standard dilutions for food grade H2O2 are 3% and I think 35%. I am wondering if the contact time would be noticably shorter with 35%, and what effect it would have on human skin, if any.


I
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Ok that's 1/10 javel water that is used as chlorine.

I didn't find a reference but it is a common thought in labs over here that 70% is the better ratio of alcohol/water to disinfect, because at this %, the solution is more chaotropic!. (Will have the property to change the conformation of protein and to break cell membrane and wall.)
This property is useful, as Influenza is an envelopped virus.
Also, strong % of alcohol changes the conformation of Nucleic Acid which are less bio-usable.

I won't propose you use Methanol and Isopropanol if you need it close to a face because they are toxic.
Ethanol is more expensive but is more tolerated by the human body and is as potent for disinfection.

I know a lot of disinfectants are toxic.

The "Microsol3+" is a laboratory disinfectant that is made in UK (I think you are from there) that is Aldehyde free, Phenol Free, and biodegradable. Its Virucidal, Bactericidal, Fungicidal and Sporicidal property have been certified for many countries official microbiologocal protocols.

It acts like a super soap and some studies have shown it can destroy Nucleic acid also.

Mingus
 
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Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Thanks a lot Mingus for confirming the alcohol % range. I have ordered the H&S sheet for Microsol 3+ from the manufacturer and will now see about sourcing some. Yes I am in UK. Thanks again.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

If I'm not mistaken...in America our rubbing alchohol (that can be purchased in grocery stores) all are Isopropanol..probably so people can't drink it (that's my guess).

-Hawkeye
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Mingus said:
Ok that's 1/10 javel water that is used as chlorine.


For UK readers, 10% Javel water, is a 10% dilution of Sodium Hypo-chlorite. You will not find 10% in any UK supermarket, but it is available from Scat's farm shop with a 11% dilution, in 25 liter drums. The UK bleach situation is a bit wierd. If I can get a workshop on this forum, I will post something on the subject.

Thanks again Mingus :) !
Click to expand...
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

It's for that legal reason. (I talk about isopropanol)

Never, Never drink that !
 
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Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Wake said:
Mingus said:
Ok that's 1/10 javel water that is used as chlorine.


For UK readers, 10% Javel water, is a 10% dilution of Sodium Hypo-chlorite. You will not find 10% in any UK supermarket, but it is available from Scat's farm shop with a 11% dilution, in 25 liter drums. The UK bleach situation is a bit wierd. If I can get a workshop on this forum, I will post something on the subject.

Thanks again Mingus :) !
Click to expand...


Sorry I mean, 1/10 dilution of the Javel we had in Lab and I think this one is 30% Sodium Hypo-chlorite. So I must be 3% Sodium Hypo-chlorite that you can use to spray on a desk for example. (be careful about your color :p )
Click to expand...
 
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Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Mingus said:
Wake said:
Sorry I mean, 1/10 dilution of the Javel we had in Lab and I think this one is 30% Sodium Hypo-chlorite. So I must be 3% Sodium Hypo-chlorite that you can use to spray on a desk for example. (be careful about yout color :p )
Click to expand...

Mingus, I realised at once, that you were just checking to see if we were still awake :) .

I use the same dilutions as Hong Kong Health Authorities recommend, which is 5% for general surface decontamination and 10% for cleaning up infected blood, faeces and vomit. Don't forget goggles and an apron when you remix the bleach, or you could end up as Mingus says .... looking like a Dalmation :rolleyes: .
Click to expand...
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Purchased this bottle called "septiquad" which is used to sterilise intruments used by a pedicure for instance. It also comes from a shop aimed at pedicures, manicures etc. The technical name (in Dutch) would be:
didecyldimethylamoniumchloride. It must be diluted in such small quantities 1:250 that a litre bottle goes a long way. 40 milliliter to 10 litres of water! Bought many more handdesinfectants and other anti-bacterials at this shop. Try one in your local area.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Hello Wake, hawkeye and Delta.

I find something funny because it summarise a lot of what we said here.:cool:
but it's a lot more credible with reference.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=10676896&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

1: J Vet Med Sci. 2000 Jan;62(1):85-92. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Effects of chlorine, iodine, and quaternary ammonium compound disinfectants on several exotic disease viruses.

Shirai J, Kanno T, Tsuchiya Y, Mitsubayashi S, Seki R.

Department of Exotic Diseases, National Institute of Animal Health, Kodaira, Tokyo, Japan.

The effects of three representative disinfectants, chlorine (sodium hypochlorite), iodine (potassium tetraglicine triiodide), and quaternary ammonium compound (didecyldimethylammonium chloride), on several exotic disease viruses were examined. The viruses used were four enveloped viruses (vesicular stomatitis virus, African swine fever virus, equine viral arteritis virus, and porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome virus) and two non-enveloped viruses (swine vesicular disease virus (SVDV) and African horse sickness virus (AHSV)). Chlorine was effective against all viruses except SVDV at concentrations of 0.03% to 0.0075%, and a dose response was observed. Iodine was very effective against all viruses at concentrations of 0.015% to 0.0075%, but a dose response was not observed. Quaternary ammonium compound was very effective in low concentration of 0.003% against four enveloped viruses and AHSV, but it was only effective against SVDV with 0.05% NaOH. Electron microscopic observation revealed the probable mechanism of each disinfectant. Chlorine caused complete degeneration of the viral particles and also destroyed the nucleic acid of the viruses. Iodine destroyed mainly the inner components including nucleic acid of the viruses. Quaternary ammonium compound induced detachment of the envelope of the enveloped viruses and formation of micelle in non-enveloped viruses. According to these results, chlorine and iodine disinfectants were quite effective against most of the viruses used at adequately high concentration. The effective concentration of quaternary ammonium compound was the lowest among the disinfectants examined.

PMID: 10676896 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Thanks for the link Mingus, it was a very interesting article in more ways than one. The effective concentrations seemed very low, but that leads me to my main problem. I know nothing about chemistry !. I have come to the conclusion that all disinfectants have negative points ... but there has to be one family of decontamination fluids that are both effective (against contact time) and cause the least amount of damage to humans. When I read the above mentioned article I wondered if 5% sodium chlorite or calcium chlorite was too high, because some sources say 1%. I tended to trust the 5% recommended by the Hong Kong authorities because they have the knowlege and experience of blocking H5N1 on their island. As always we have a compromise situation, the higher the concentration then theoretically the more effective it becomes, but the more injurous to human skin and eyes. From my unqualified point of view bleach has certain advantages, in that it is cheap and readily available, but other families of disinfectants may be better for the purpose of decontamination, I really do not know. Another thought is that the wrong mix of chemicals such as permanganates, chlorates, alcohol, peroxides etc pose their own 'problems' which need to be avoided.

I would like to see an article, written for people down at my level, in simple English (or American :) ) that explains the various families of disinfectants, recommended dilutions and contact times required to be effective for specific decontamination purposes. I think the worst case scenario would be the decontamination of a babies face after it had been sneezed on. There are well qualified people on this forum and I think it would be possible for them to tackle this collectively and come up with an article on the best compromise. I have already tackled several manufacturers on this subject, but because of the liability issue, they usually back down as soon as one mentions a human application.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Back to H202 for a moment.

There is a process called H202 Vapour Phase disinfection. An email received this morning, concerning disinfection of mail in the domestic situation prompted me to phone up a leading UK company who produce this equipment for hospitals.

They said that they produced nothing that was cheap enough for a domestic application. Basically they vapourise 35% H202 to give a surface contact kill time of about 15 minutes for H5N1. They had not tried it with 3% H202. They said it would be doubtful if the vapour could penetrate some types of envelope, to kill any virus that might be inside.
 
Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Re: H2O2 contact time for H5N1 ?

Grin, that might make for some soggy letters that. I've decided to put a cardboard box outside to leave any mail in. Put on protective gear, open letters outside, answer any of them there as well (bills signed etc) and in the letterbox to send off. If it's selfquarantine, then nothing will enter the house.
 
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