Preparing and reluctant family members

[Amish Country]

Hi All

I am posting this in the hope that someone in our community has found a diplomatic way of dealing with this important issue. Do your friends and family member's eyes glaze over when you bring up bird flu preparation? Or do they say things like "that's another thing that didn't happen", or "if it was important it would be in the news" or "there is nothing we can do anyway"? To them is the WHO a rock band and Oprah more trust worthy than the CDC?

Worst and best of all is my spouse. God has seen fit to bless me with a loving and wonderful husband. Unfortunately bird flu prep is not listed anywhere in his priorities. My impression is: as long as he is not inconvenienced he tolerates my eccentricity. He does not "get it" and like so many others, until they have seen and been personally touched by it, it will not be real to them.

The monthly budget is small to prep four people in my immediate family. I cannot prep for the rest but know when it hits my husband will be opening the door to the unprepared family members (many of whom have a lot more money than we do!)

How do we motivate reluctant family members and friends to take responsibility and make the preparations that may save their lives and the lives of their families?

 

[hawkeye]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Amish Country-
It's a very tough situation that many of us here have faced. My best advice is to "plant seeds" with each of them, and eventually they will "hear". Even today, those who I know aren't actively prepping do ask me questions from time to time...and occasionally I'll send out an email with a short news article (or links), just to keep it fresh in their mind.
I'm sure that those I've spoken to about it, think I'm "crazy" or "alarmist", and what troubles me about that is I've exposed them to just the beginnings of what is actually going on.
Every individual (including ourselves), goes through the process of acceptance, however, I feel that each person has to do this at their own speed. What we are facing (to quote a friend) is just so "scifi".

Perhaps you could sit down with your husband, and speak to him sincerely about how concerned you are, and that you would like to come to an agreement as a family to use a portion of your funds for prepping, even if its a small amount (6 extra cans of soup everytime you shop). Also, present the prepping as creating a "larger pantry" in case of an emergency. I've found that making the case for a general emergeny stock, is the best. Initially start with 1 week...and then perhaps start to expand from there.

Just remember, you're not alone in this, virutually all of us are facing the very same issue.

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

People love conspiricies.
Lately I had given up on most approaches, but one does grab their attention.
'I mention to people that some government web sites tell us to stock up on 2 weeks worth of food. Then other websites tell us that 3 months of food, medicines and other household items are needed.
Then I heard that some of the officials that be are already stocked up on 18 months worth of supplies.
How do you like that?'

They jump right in and start saying how unfair and callous the whole system is. It really gets their goat. Then I tell them that I am starting to buy items on sale, before prices really start to skyrocket.

So maybe they will seriously start thinking about storing supplies, or when they hear more news on the subject, they will remember the 18 months and buy more than a months worth of supplies. People are very inert.

And they don't know why utilities will go down during a flu season, or why there could be a shortage of food. That aspect puzzles them. They just don't believe that that could ever happen.
They just don't understand why we have to buy extra supplies for a flu pandemic. They don't know what quarantine is, or why any churches, funeral homes or businesses would be shut down. Most are totally clueless.

Some of my friends say if the grocery stores run out of food, they will just go to a restaurant and eat. Some say they will just go to Florida to get away from it! Some are going to head out to their cottage. They have no idea how long and drawn out this will be. And if I inform them how bad things might get, they smile like I'm nutz.

And sending out emails gets me nowhere. All my friends can comprehend are one liner jokes. That is their intellectual limit, even the ones with degrees.. Anything over one paragraph long is too much to read. They don't even read the news stories.

Everyone I have recently talked to has said bird flu is no longer a problem, because there has been nothing on the news about the bird flu for a long time.
I think the President will have to alert the people to the problem.

Meijer stores now have 3 different bird flu kits, made by 3M, on sale. And 1 quart bottles of their own brand of sanitizing gel.
The kits consist of disposable thermometers, N95 masks, vinyl gloves, alcohol wipes, & alcohol gel. $8 - $12 per kit.

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Don't forget to add candles. I turned off all my lights and started to light candles to see how many I needed to read by.
14 candles were needed...and I used 10 wooden matches in the process.

Each candle gives off about 1 watt of light.
I figure 1200 candles and 2500 matches would do it.
But you really need to figure out how many hours each candle burns.
I might need double the matches, but they are cheap.
More matches will be necessary to light the stove, furnace or fire.

And you need extra wicks to make candles out of all the wasted wax. Some candles don't use up all their wax, they are unreliable. The extra wicks and wax I will give to the neighbors. They can make their candles.
I probably could supply my neighbors with quite a few candles.
I bought over 100 pounds of candles last summer at church sales...real cheap.
I did go and buy a big box of restaurant votive candles yesterday from Gordon Food Supply. Those should burn well and be more reliable, and not waste wax. I'll test them sometime and let you know.
But I have oil lamps too. They throw more light.

For me to supply each of my 20 neighboring homes with just 1 25 pound sack of rice and flour would cost $400. I can't do it. Enough seeds for the neighbors would cost $100.

Basic supplies for the 20 homes would be in excess of $100,000....for the duration of a pandemic. Everyone is on their own. Charities and gov't can't handle it.

Right now I am working on the problem of extra deaths due to 'indoor hypothermia'.
It's a real eye opener. Go buy a lot of woolen clothes. And fur hoods.
Regressing to basics is a big job.

As far as my relatives, most are on the ball and have 2 weeks to 10 months of food. Most don't want to talk about pandemic either. They are overwhelmed, just like me. It's a real roller coaster of emotions.

 

[Amish Country]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Thank you all for you thoughtful responses. It is nice to know others are experiencing similar feed back and responses from the people they care about.

The "seeds I have planted" are to hand out n95 masks and suggest that they put extra food by in the pantry ?just in case?. I suggested shelf safe foods leaning towards cans of soup containing meats and vegetables. Luckily my husband no longer comes down on my case for ?Buying extra food that we don?t need (right now!)?. After a few snow storms, ice storms and back outs, trotting down to the pantry is a lot more appealing than braving the weather and bad roads.

Without being too graphic I have tried to let them know how bad it could be.

I have also printed out some detailed instructions including meal plans, shopping lists and recipes all for shelf safe foods and started to distribute them.

A major problem I have run into is that no one nationally known and respected by the general public has come out and given much in the way of detailed instructions. Such as what specific types of shelf safe food to store, how much per person per day and for what length of time. Lets face it, if Angelina and Brad came out and told folks to put up a years supply of planned shelf safe meals there would be lines at the box stores tomorrow.

Another issue is bird flu is over there?. Malaysia, China, Indonesia. It is not in their back yards so why worry? Asking if they have bothered to notice that a lot of the products they commonly buy and use come from these countries has only managed to raise the odd eye brow. The fact that it is creeping into the middle east and Africa does not seem to register much interest either.

The 1918 flu is not a part of common living memory now and must have been so horrific that much of that generation decided not to pass their experiences from that dark period on to their children and grandchildren. My family has stories back to the civil war but it is like the 1918 flu never happened. My grandmother would volunteer detailed accounts of life during WWI but not on the flu.

I like the conspiracy theory. Almost anything is worth a try if it gets people to think and act without provoking panic. Whoops I used the "P" word!

Is there anyone out there that has found other ways to convince their loved ones? What has worked? How did you do it? Can you pass these tools on to us to put to work on our own families?

 

[MHSC]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

More about family & friends here

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13539

 

[Amish Country]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Right now I am working on the problem of extra deaths due to 'indoor hypothermia'. It's a real eye opener. Go buy a lot of woolen clothes. And fur hoods. Regressing to basics is a big job.QUOTE]

Hi Jonesie
Ideas for the "indoor hypothermia":
bellow ground temperatures are usually steady between 50 and 60 degrees F. I am not saying that you can't get hypothermia at those temperatures, but a 55 degree basement maybe a better option that a 30 degree room upstairs.
Hot water bottles are old fashion but I like mine on cold nights.

Glad to hear that your family is preparing. What was the "trigger" that motivated them to start?

 

[MHSC]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Meijer stores now have 3 different bird flu kits, made by 3M, on sale. And 1 quart bottles of their own brand of sanitizing gel.
The kits consist of disposable thermometers, N95 masks, vinyl gloves, alcohol wipes, & alcohol gel. $8 - $12 per kit.

Where would I find these kits in the store?

 

[Amish Country]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Maybe I am asking the wrong question here. Maybe the question I should be asking is:

"What was the trigger that caused us to start preparing?"

"What is your reason for preparing?"

If we start looking at what pushed us to start maybe we can find tools we need to help us encourage others we love to start.

For me it was a woman whose opinion I respect. She started sending me emails. Just now and again with what was happening with the flu. She also suggested that I might want to read up on what happened back in 1918. Being a bit of a book worm it did not take much to send me to the local public library and John Barry's book "The Great Influenza" among others.

Back in 1918 because of the lack of refrigeration many homes had a pantry with a years supply of shelf safe food. More people knew how to preserve and prepare their own shelf safe foods. That generation was also more familiar with dealing with epidemics at home than we are. Childhood diseases were something that children had to endure and parents had to deal with. In these respects our grandparents and great grandparents may have been better prepared to deal with a pandemic flu than we are.

After reading about what happened back then and realizing we may not be that much more advanced in dealing with influenza now, the decision to start preparing was obvious.

Now, what is your story?

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

I found the 3M flu kits in a main aisle near the sporting goods. It was a big display.
Ask at the pharmacy or service desk, as each Meijer store may locate them elsewhere.
I searched the 3M web site and could not find any info on them.

If I am able to go back to the store, I will buy one of each of the kits.
They might come in handy.

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Hi Jonesie
Ideas for the "indoor hypothermia":
bellow ground temperatures are usually steady between 50 and 60 degrees F. I am not saying that you can't get hypothermia at those temperatures, but a 55 degree basement maybe a better option that a 30 degree room upstairs.
Hot water bottles are old fashion but I like mine on cold nights.

Glad to hear that your family is preparing. What was the "trigger" that motivated them to start?

I plan on moving into the basement if I have to. The canned goods will not freeze down there. And I might put in a wood stove down there too.

If I have gas, but no electricity, my furnace will not run. I can hook all my garden hoses together and attach them to the hot water tank or any faucet, and channel hot water through the hoses into a drain. Very slowly. Crisscrossing a hot hose all over the floor will warm the basement enough to get by. (Hot water radiant heat) And filling bathtubs and washtubs, pails, etc., with hot water also helps warm a place.

What triggered my family to prepare was me. A year ago I thought this pandemic was gearing up, so I let my relatives know. And I started to prepare then. I watched it unfold since 1997.
But I do have 1 relative that bought just 1 big bag of rice, and another that is willing to starve along with the rest of the population. She is very frugal and afraid to spend any money, even for her own welfare. It is a sickness with her. Keeping her money in the bank is more important than putting food on the table. She'd rather suffer and die than spend a dime. It's probably another form of denial.

Years ago it was the norm to can foods and stock up on supplies to get through the winter. And few people had refrigeration. And most heated with coal or wood, and had a coal bin or wood pile. And had their own wells and outhouses, and a large supply of candles and oil lamps.

But that was years ago. Now we have the JIT system, and that will be a killer when it fails.

And people like me that now take it upon themselves to be prepared like my grandparents had to be, are thought of as odd-balls.

Right now our way of life is comfortable and wonderful, but it can all come tumbling down in an instant. And people will suffer and die because of their complacency and ignorance.

 

[Vibrant62]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Amish Country

I believe that the answer to your questions are very simple.

First and foremost individuals must understand the threat that is posed by a pandemic, and secondly they must beleive it really could happen. If these two things occur, the rest follows.

Once people can overcome the disbelief that in this century we are still vulnerable to a viral onslaught, that there will not be a vaccine for most nor medication that can magically fix the problem, they are then ready to start to consider (if led through the thought process), what the implications might be of a pandemic. I have found it helpful to pose questions rather than provide facts, and make people 'think' the issues through and come to their own conclusions.

Posing questions such as 'how would your company/ organisation function if 50% were off sick etc; what would happen?' Have a good discussion about what would not happen normally. Once this level of understanding is reached I have found a discussion along the lines of 'now imagine all companies/organisations are similarly affected' follwoed by 'now imagine the process that a can of beans has to go through before you can buy it in your local shop; the beans have to be grown, harvested, the beans have to be cooked, they then have to be canned, they then have to be distributed. If your company couldnt function normally becuase you were missing people, what about the farmers, what about the processing factory, what about the can manufacturers? They all require people - do you think that they are going to be any less affected than your business/ organisation?

The answer is of course, no. Therefore people can start to visualise that even if that can of beans gets made, the outputs of factories is inevitably going to be reduced. Then there is the issue of distribution, fuel supply etc to even get it to the shop. If any one of these stages in the chain does not happen, the whole thing falls down. Now if they consider that this applies to ALL goods, whilst the effects of a pandemic may be temporary, they should be able to envision a situation where food and essentials may be hard to come by - with increased demand because everyone wants to buy those goods at the same time, even if it is only for a short while. Then you have to say, OK we have thought about what might happen for a period of say 6 weeks and how that could impact on the goods you might wish to buy. Now think about what happens if we get several 'rounds' or 'waves' of infection one after the other - what is the knock on effect? If our ususal suppliers cant do the job, who do you think could and where? (no imports - all affected equally, everywhere).

By this time I have found that people ususally can see for themselves the nature of the problem.

Where of course it all falls down is when blind faith steps in, whereby they beleive that TPTB would have done something to make sure that this couldnt happen. Plans will be in place etc etc.

That is where, at least in the US, you can point them to the HHS site, and highlight that this prepping IS the something that is being done. And that's it.

Sadly we cant do that in the UK - not part of policy - yet.

 

[Lynda]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Not to sound harsh, but the biggest problem you have is that you husband hasn't done the math on the food, and will open the door to others. When that happens, you are in trouble.

I've warned people, I'll warn them again, but they won't be coming in the door.

Those hoping for reasonable prep time are probably living in a fantasy. The virus will have a headstart, supplies will go quickly, and emergency planning officials already have a system in place to impose item limitations in a national emergency.

Some of the sites are awfully complicated. Here's a basic prep site that might do some good.
www.planforflu.com

 

[JJackson]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

The trigger to start prepping is knowledge.

We prep because we know the risk is not negligible and the consequence of a pandemic to many will be death and this is not something we are willing to tolerate for those we love, if we can do something about it. So the challenge is to get friends and family to listen and learn enough to feel the same way we do.

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

These are the 3M Nexcare kits that Meijer is offering for sale in their pharmacy area:

http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...9&aid=333971&aparam=nexcare_health_preparedne

http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...9&aid=333971&aparam=nexcare_health_preparedne

http://www.drugstore.com/products/p...0&aid=333971&aparam=nexcare_hand_sanitizing_g

Meijer is also also selling a box of 3M HY8810 N95 respirators, $9.59 for a box of 10. Packaged by CareMates, but I could not find them on their website: (No exhilation valve.)
https://www.care-mates.com/order_form.asp

Also, Walgreen is now carrying this kit: $19.99 ($18.90 at Meijer)

http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?id=prod2563829&CATID=100116&skuid=sku2563266&ec=sp_582547

So the PPE products are starting to show up on store shelves.
The fact that these products are now available at the local stores might bring many people to realize the seriousness of the situation.

 

[Amish Country]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

The trigger to start prepping is knowledge.

We prep because we know the risk is not negligible and the consequence of a pandemic to many will be death and this is not something we are willing to tolerate for those we love, if we can do something about it. So the challenge is to get friends and family to listen and learn enough to feel the same way we do.

Hi JJackson
I like your sentiments however there will be some "Cold Equations" that will have to be calculated. I do not have the resources to provide food and supplies for my extended family. I am hoping (with enough time) we will be able to put enough by for our immediate family.

The kits listed above may make holiday gifts that may get some conversation going and nudge some more families to do the research, the math and start preparing.

This site has wonderful information, advice and feed back but it is like medicine in the bottle: it doesn't do any good if it is not taken. This holiday season I plan to encourage my family to check this site out and pray that they do.

 

[homestead]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Hi Amish Country,

I was lurking on this site and read this thread then decided to join so I could maybe add a little bit to the discussion. I too have had and am having some of the same problems with family members that you're having. My husband came on board after reading "The Great Influenza" last year, and one adult son read it this year but wasn't ready to begin preparing until I e-mailed him the link to November 13, 2006 HHS report "Pandemic Planning Update III" and the original Hong Kong US embassy recommendations (since then erased from their site) for Americans to prepare to SIP for 12 weeks.

The other immediate family members don't want to hear anything about it and just laugh and say that if the pandemic happens, they'll come here to our place. We don't have enough put away for all of them and it would be an impossible dilemma if they all showed up. The best we could do was to tell them that if they come, we only have enough put away for ourselves, but we'll let them have it and we'll just leave. We won't turn them away. They seemed surprised by that answer, but I don't know what else we could do. They're our children and grandchildren. We could easily go to a nearby hospital and volunteer our services, and also accept whatever came of that. We aren't young and the resources should go to those who are.

It's an odd situation and I hope we never have to face it. We might not because if quarantines go into place, they wouldn't be able to drive here from the cities they live in. Meanwhile, my husband and I are now well prepared with food, water and supplies for the two of us. We've been working on this project for over a year.

Most of us in the flu prepping communities have encountered the same thing you are finding. People do not want to have to think about this. My best guess is that despite what's been in the media so far, only about 5% or less of the people in the US have done anything at all, and then most have only a couple weeks worth of food. The government recommendation is for such a short time frame that, IMHO, people think they have that much in the cupboard and refrigerator/freezer and so they're all set. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

[LMonty]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Welcome Homestead, glad to have you here!

We have discussed this before, you may find some of the ideas and thoughts on the folowing thread of interest:
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9784&highlight=coming+house

I must admit, I find your approach far different than others I have seen! Personally, I like the ticket concept- it's been proven in many instances to plant the seed that personal responsibility is needed, by stripping away denial. Sometimes. It may not be right for you in your situation, only you can decide that. I offer the thread for you to peruse in case it gives you any ideas that might help you help your loved ones become more aware and proactive, and safer because of it.

Best of luck with it!

I reallly like the Christmas Present Prep idea, gang. Ive been kicking that around in my head too, not as well defined as this. I think thats what I'm going to be doing here too. Those headlamp type LED flashlights are great, really low battery usage. Can be had with an extra pack of batteries for just under $10 USD if you look at Wally world or similar outlets. Hurricane lanterns/oil lamps with scented oils are a traditional decoration and often for sale now with holiday theme decorations. Multitools are always handy.

I have neat book about making food mixes and packing them as gifts called The Perfect Mix. Maybe I should dig that out and see if we can adapt it to some good prep type gifts...

 

[Amish Country]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Personally, I like the ticket concept- it's been proven in many instances to plant the seed that personal responsibility is needed, by stripping away denial.

LMONTY I LOVE IT! Your logic and approach is brilliant. It will probably take me a little while to figure out a food and supply list (masks, OTC meds etc.) for the "Entrance Ticket". Maybe one list for adults and one for children. It would be something to slip into the Holiday cards a long with the usual note that all is well and we are actively preparing to keep it that way. While I'm sure it will supply proof positive to some of my relatives that I am certifiable it may get others thinking.

Another thing you might want to put on the ticket is the fact that it is YOUR house and YOU are in charge if they don't like it they can leave at anytime and not return but the supplies stay put, thank you very much. Also they will be expected to "WORK" and help out as the situation requires and will not be treated like paying guests.

 

[LMonty]

Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

Thanks, Ac, but I cant take credit for the concept. I do have the honor of knowing the originator and calling him a friend, and having his permission to share it....