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Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

GennieF

Well-known member
Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

(AFP) ? 53 minutes ago

PARIS ? The swine flu is unlikely to become more virulent as it spreads through the northern hemisphere this winter, but could re-emerge a year later in a more deadly form, a top expert said Thursday.

"We should get through the winter relatively easily, I don't think the virus will mutate before then," said John Oxford, a professor of virology at Britain's St Bartholomew's and the Royal London Hospital.

"There will be more people in hospital and more deaths, but essentially it will be the same virus we have experienced in the summer, just more of it," he told AFP in an interview.

After winter has passed, however, the pressures of natural selection could favour the emergence of more deadly strains of the A(H1N1) virus, Oxford explained.

"For the moment, the virus is running around the world finding lots of young people and infecting them. It is doing very nicely, thank you, why should it change?", he said by phone.

"But once the virus has infected about a third of the world's population -- which is what we expect -- it will find less 'susceptibles'. That is when mutants will have a selective advantage."

It would be a serious mistake to think that once the impending flu season is over, the danger will have passed, he added.

Oxford said he had just returned from Australia, where he met front-line doctors who were concerned about an emerging pattern in swine flu patients.

Whether they are people in high risk groups -- the obese, pregnant women, asthmatics -- or young adults with no underlying conditions, an alarming number of patients wind up in intensive care units.

"One minute they are OK in a hospital bed, the next minute they are in intensive care," he said.

There have been more than 100 confirmed deaths from the pandemic H1N1 strain in Australia, which is just emerging from the southern hemisphere winter.

Epidemiologists sifting through data from other countries have also found similar -- and disquieting -- patterns.

French epidemiologist Antoine Flahault reported a 100-fold increase, compared to seasonal flu, in the number of swine flu deaths in Mauritius and New Caledonia attributed directly to the virus itself rather than secondary bacterial infections or underlying conditions.

Many of those deaths were caused by acute respiratory disease syndrome (ARDS), which requires intensive-care treatment for an average of three weeks. Only 50 percent of ARDS patients survive.

Copyright ? 2009 AFP. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbCX-4RsL0_8G6M8l7pnyMcKIdXg
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

(AFP) – 53 minutes ago

PARIS — The swine flu is unlikely to become more virulent as it spreads through the northern hemisphere this winter, but could re-emerge a year later in a more deadly form, a top expert said Thursday.

"We should get through the winter relatively easily, I don't think the virus will mutate before then," said John Oxford, a professor of virology at Britain's St Bartholomew's and the Royal London Hospital.

Apparently PCAST would not necessarily agree.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

I think when winter sets in people will be compalcent about the virus,a lot i talk to are not bothered about it saying normal flu is much worse,and for this reason we may see more deaths.especially with the cold weather and people more suceptable to illness.possibly not believing it is swine flu, that they may have and thinking it is just a run of the mill cold or normal flu.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Is there information from a prior epidemic where it shows the acquisition of PB2/627K?

Since H2N2 and H3N2 are human reassorts, I wouldn't expect their precursors to show that, but how about 1976 swine flu? Are there enough earlier swine sequences to watch the development of increased virulence?

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Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Is there information from a prior epidemic where it shows the acquisition of PB2/627K?

Since H2N2 and H3N2 are human reassorts, I wouldn't expect their precursors to show that, but how about 1976 swine flu? Are there enough earlier swine sequences to watch the development of increased virulence?

.

I looked at 1930 to 1976 swine PB2. 627 is "K" in all cases.

There were 29 sequences.

.
 
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Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Given that 2009 H1N1 PB2 is mostly avian, I looked at the avian PB2 from 1930 to 1976. it is all "E" except a "K" in:

ABI84544 759 Avian PB2 H10N7 Germany 1949 Influenza A virus (A/chicken/Germany/N/1949(H10N7))

There was a minor epidemic in human H1N1 in 1950 and 1951.

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Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Is there information from a prior epidemic where it shows the acquisition of PB2/627K?

Since H2N2 and H3N2 are human reassorts, I wouldn't expect their precursors to show that, but how about 1976 swine flu? Are there enough earlier swine sequences to watch the development of increased virulence?

.

AD, the last three pandemic viruses, and all subsequent seasonal flu viruses (H1N1, H2N2 and H3N2) have had the Lysine at 627 of PB2. In other words, since acquisition sometime prior to 1918, it has been ever on duty, causing mischief.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

I checked all avian H1 for 2007 to 2009. It is all "E".

So if the current human H1N1 want a "K" at 627, it needs to get it from circulating human old seasonal H1N1, or swine.

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Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

AD, the last three pandemic viruses, and all subsequent seasonal flu viruses (H1N1, H2N2 and H3N2) have had the Lysine at 627 of PB2. In other words, since acquisition sometime prior to 1918, it has been ever on duty, causing mischief.

What is the "official" reason that our current H1N1 doens't have it? Because PB2 came from birds?

What you stated is precisely why I (the non-scientist) would expect this current H1N1 to join the PB2/627K tradition.

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Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

What is the "official" reason that our current H1N1 doens't have it? Because PB2 came from birds?

What you stated is precisely why I (the non-scientist) would expect this current H1N1 to join the PB2/627K tradition.

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Yes, both the PB2 and PA segments are avian-like, of recent swine origin. It is also a bit disconcerning that the existing Swine Flu virus has some unique mutations in these two segments that are found in Asian H5N1 and H9N2 viruses circulating in both birds, and in some cases humans.

As the Swine Flu virus continues to adopt to its new human host, I too would expect the eventual acquisition of E627K in the PB2 segment, thereby allowing the virus to replicate more efficiently in the upper respiratory system. However, I will not go out on a limb and profess to anyone that I have a firm understanding of precisely how or when that might occurr.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Oxford's predictions are useful to Pharma cos: a vaccine could probably be updated after the next fall wave, when drift variants will emerge.

The feared reassortment with human or avian/swine/xxx viruses may be well likely but - until march 2009 - no Oxford's predictions are available about this novel H1N1 2009 from a previuosly detected swine virus...

And further, not only H5N1 but a good company of viruses may help Oxford predictions to make real: H5N2, N3, H7N1, N2, N3, N7, H6, ...

Huge pigs and poultry populations are present in Europe - for example - and industrial farming facilities are good incubators for all these viruses and those in humans...

I am almost sure that another viral subtype will emerge from these huge incubators where thousands of million of animals are crowded together...
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

I would also add a consideration.

When thousands of millions of people around the world are facing the challenge of this pandemic, with the well known limitations in public health care in developing world, shortcomings in food and water distribution if not production, displaced crowds, these renowned 'experts' predict worse scenarios.

Because, the urgence is to gather resource for the 'have nots', for the immisering communities, not for publicize a new study or company.

Even in these hard times, no pity for those are falling, no equity and no ethics.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

...., I too would expect the eventual acquisition of E627K in the PB2 segment, thereby allowing the virus to replicate more efficiently in the upper respiratory system. However, I will not go out on a limb and profess to anyone that I have a firm understanding of precisely how or when that might occurr.

Do you think that current H1N1 survivors will have some degree of immunity against that mutation's increased virulence? If the 2009 H1N1 can spread through one or two global flu seasons, will that create a reasonable herd immunity, so that future mutations/drift might be of manageable virulence?

I'm hoping that time will be our friend. :)

.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

I would also add a consideration.

When thousands of millions of people around the world are facing the challenge of this pandemic, with the well known limitations in public health care in developing world, shortcomings in food and water distribution if not production, displaced crowds, these renowned 'experts' predict worse scenarios.

Because, the urgence is to gather resource for the 'have nots', for the immisering communities, not for publicize a new study or company.

Even in these hard times, no pity for those are falling, no equity and no ethics.

What will change that?

.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Do you think that current H1N1 survivors will have some degree of immunity against that mutation's increased virulence? If the 2009 H1N1 can spread through one or two global flu seasons, will that create a reasonable herd immunity, so that future mutations/drift might be of manageable virulence?

I'm hoping that time will be our friend. :)

.

I would certainly think so. And remember it is really only the drift in HA and NA, and to a minor extent MP, that you worry about since they contain most of the recoginition factors of the host antibodies for infection and transmission.

So, the acquisition of E627K would not be expected to significantly change the antigenic character of the virus. Earlier acquired immunity and vaccines should still be OK. Time is our friend for now, and mutations, to the extent that they do occurr, will take time to spread and become concensus.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

Huge pigs and poultry populations are present in Europe - for example - and industrial farming facilities are good incubators for all these viruses and those in humans...

I am almost sure that another viral subtype will emerge from these huge incubators where thousands of million of animals are crowded together...

As I understand it, there are a few pig populations in China as well.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

I would certainly think so. And remember it is really only the drift in HA and NA, and to a minor extent MP, that you worry about ..........
...... Earlier acquired immunity and vaccines should still be OK. Time is our friend for now, and mutations, to the extent that they do occurr, will take time to spread and become concensus.

Looking back at the H1N1/HA from post 1918/1930s thru 1956, I see there are years of seeming stability (from my non-scientist view). It appears to stabilize from 1940-1945, 1946-1954 and 1954-1956. But there are clearly some minor changes during those periods.

So we might get a good 5+ years of stable H1N1!

.
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

So...speak to me like I am 12 when you answer :)....Am I hearing that it most likely won't be bad unless it recombines?
 
Re: Pandemic virus could get nastier in year two

As I understand influenza, it is highly unpredictable. But we can say that this strain currently doesn't have some potentially bad mutations. If a large portion of the world's population can get infected by this mild version, that would protect them because their immune systems would have made antibodies that should also work against a bad version.

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