Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2015

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Thank you, mixin! :applause: I will look at the technical info more later, but the analysis still seems pretty changeable at this point. (I saw the remark about what was thought to be the 'Big Hum' now being thought to be a layer of oyster shells...)

Regarding the community stress, I've wondered why Occidental Petroleum/Chemical is not helping out with settlements. I think they are taking the recovered oil out of the sinkhole since they own the mineral rights to it and are selling it. The state believes they have some responsibility in all this since they owned the well property and were in some sort of lease agreement with TB in the salt mining operation.

http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/southcentral/2012/11/16/217582.htm

But I lost hope Occidental would volunteer to help when I found these links when searching for an update:

http://www.democracynow.org/2003/5/2/occidental_petroleum_sued_for_role_in
http://amazonwatch.org/work/block-1ab

Ethically, though, I think a landlord should be partly responsible for environmental problems originating on their property, especially if they have been benefiting from a business operation conducted there. We'd all want our neighbors to be that responsible.

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Emily,
Please do let us know what you think about the technical data.

The last time they measured the depth of the sinkhole, they ran out of line at 500 feet. It was said at the meeting they were going to buy a 750 foot tagline and someone joked that they better buy a thousand foot one. They should followed that advice. The video shows John dropping line for almost 5 minutes; it was still dropping when he ran out again and he showed the empty spool. I hope he had some type of automatic spool roller on board

July 20, 2013
1:50 p.m. Update

John Boudreaux has reported another depth survey has been completed in the center of the sinkhole. A video has been posted on YouTube showing that 750′ of cord was used and all 750′ went down to bottom. This information has been sent to the Blue Ribbon Commission for there review.

http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/assumptionla

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

I just watched Mr. Boudreaux's video documenting his common sense depth finding efforts and I think it is irrefutable that the sinkhole is at least 750 ft. deep, no matter what the sonar tests are showing.

Another possible failure of sonar measurements is the bizarre reports of the the cavern bottom is moving up and down by increments of 100's of feet at a time in a fashion unexplainable by world experts in salt mechanics, per the consultant remarks at the latest meeting.

I'm wondering if fluctuations in insect-generated background noise are behind the mystery. About 4 minutes into the video below of a community briefing back in January, a resident raises a question about termite mounds being disturbed by the seismic testing:

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/ikVyeGt5eJ0?hl=en_US&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/ikVyeGt5eJ0?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

I couldn't find reports of mounds being physically disturbed by seismic tests when I was searching back in January, but I did find that termites use seismic signals for communication and even a sonar-like signaling to analyze food sources. So ever since then I've wondered if termite signals could throw off seismic and sonar analysis:

Geophone detection of subterranean termite and ant activity.
Effect of Vibratory Soldier Alarm Signals on the Foraging Behavior of Subterranean Termites
Sonar-like analysis of feeding noise by termites:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050224123058.htm

I hope Mr. Mr. Boudreaux can find an even longer piece of wire. I thought the solution mining industry had some sort of wire they used in caverns for measuring depths down to thousands of feet, but maybe I'm wrong. I see that lasers and cameras are being employed to measure caves:

Measuring Cave Dimensions Remotely Using Laser Pointers And A Downhole Camera

But I suppose that technology wouldn't work in a fluid-filled void.

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Since the sinkhole bubbling started again earlier this month, I'm wondering if the bottom of the cone has opened up a bit. That might allow the line to go farther down than it has in the past.

Hecox mentioned the cavern floor fluctuation could be caused by an equipment malfunction or some other reason. Given they have a tendency (IMO) to emphasize the positive and gloss over the negative a bit, I'm doubtful that they consider equipment failure a probability.

It's interesting to watch how they present the information. It seems to me they all only relate what actions have been taken, stats and such; and offer no more than what they deem necessary. Then they make the residents ask the hard questions and only give negative info when they are pressed to do so. It's a good thing that some of the residents are persistent at gathering information and asking questions.

For example, when they were talking about the 60 million cubic feet gas deposit. One lady told them what they were saying meant nothing to her, to please tell her something she understood. That's when they finally admitted at the current rate, it could take up to 5 years to burn the gas off.

When officials withhold information and only share it when pressured, it doesn't do much to form trust. I'm of the opinion that they do have some idea about what's going on down there.

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

One of the contributors at the Facebook site who obviously has some O&G industry knowledge brought up using a "slick line" to measure the sinkhole depth, perhaps putting it on a small barge to do so. Here's an example of the latest technology:

xhttp://www.slb.com/services/well_intervention/slickline/live_digital_services.aspx

There's a little animation in the lower right hand corner and this unit even has a gamma ray detector on it that finds a hot zone depicted in red.

You wonder why this technology hasn't been used yet. These units sound expensive, so perhaps there's concern about the instability of the edge of the sinkhole while launching a barge, or even worries about the barge getting sucked underwater if a vortex suddenly activated.

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

What??!! There's something more scientific than the "Just drop your line down until your sinker hits the bottom" approach? Can't we put a webcam on the sinker to take a good look around? Joking aside, that seems to work ok... they just need a longer line.

Here's the most recent bubble map posted by TB at their site on July 25
http://www.texasbrine.com/response/

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Joking aside, that seems to work ok... they just need a longer line.

You just wonder how long a line, and whether the county watercraft can float it.

I recently got the impression that the sonar measurements done that indicated a shorter and possibly fluctuating sinkhole depth were done with a device normally used for boat navigation or finding fish - like crappie. So no interference from terrestrial insects needed to confuse that technology, I guess. Just debris and silt getting burped around at times might do the trick.

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Hard to say how long of a line they need. I wonder if there is some kind of bubble experiment that could help determine the size of the hole they are coming through? Do bubbles get bigger as they come to the surface? I assume the hole is not very big.

I don't even understand the bubbling. Does the hole close from the silt/sand/debris and then opens with the burps (allowing the bubbling to begin again) OR does the gas temporarily deplete and the bubbling begins again when more accumulates?

Maybe they should leave that line down there and attach a buoy to it.

I thought I remembered that they used sonar but it never occurred to me that it might be a fish-finder type.

In the new bubble site pic, what are those 2 black lines on the lower left with all the bubble sites? Are they gas pipelines?

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

In the new bubble site pic, what are those 2 black lines on the lower left with all the bubble sites? Are they gas pipelines?

Good question, mixin. If I'm looking at the right lines, the bubbles seem to follow them. Since the sinkhole water is also black, maybe those lines are bayous. (Though I don't think that rules out gas lines or old wells being present in the same area.)

Google map's satellite view shows the sinkhole now, and those lines I'm referring to are on the map, but not so dark in color. (Maybe the amount of water they hold and how they are captured by satellite fluctuates with rainfall patterns?)

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bayou+Corne,+Belle+Rose,+Assumption,+Louisiana+70341&hl=en&ll=30.004338,-91.152105&spn=0.020254,0.027595&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&geocode=FbX8yQEdYRWR-g&hnear=Bayou+Corne,+Belle+Rose,+Louisiana+70341&t=h&z=15

There's more news about the situation:

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/louisiana_sinkhole_jindal_sues.html

Louisiana sues Texas Brine for damage caused by Bayou Corne sinkhole
By The Associated Press
on August 02, 2013 at 3:50 PM, updated August 02, 2013 at 9:02 PM
[snip]
Also named as a defendant was Occidental Chemical Corp., a New York-based company from whom Texas Brine leased the site...

http://theadvocate.com/home/6670493-125/honor%C3%A9-people-will-not-sit

Honor?: 'People will not sit by'
[snip]
Hand-drawn posters declaring ?No end in sight,? and ?gas, gas everywhere,? were taped to a flatbed trailer used for a stage where a Catholic priest, a half-dozen residents, an environmental researcher and Russel L. Honor?, a retired Army lieutenant general, all spoke under a broiling sun.

?The last time I was in a place this dangerous it was Desert Storm,? joked Russel Honor?, the Army general ordered to deal with the chaos after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in August 2005.

Now a civilian trying to raise the profile of the Bayou Corne sinkhole disaster, Honor? then apologized to the crowd, ?on behalf of the people of Louisiana, because democracy has failed you.

?The resources the extraction companies are taking from this green Earth so close to where we sit today are critical to America, but there has to be a balance between extraction from our Earth and caring for the Earth....

:applause:

 

[Ronan Kelly]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Follow the link to read the detailed story - Ro

Life at Louisiana's Toxic Sinkhole: An Eco-Disaster Continues With No End in Sight
Thursday, 08 August 2013 09:43
By Mike Ludwig, Truthout | Report

The view from Mike Schaff's small airplane is startling. Bayous snake through pastures and swamp forest of Assumption Parish in rural Louisiana. Small residential neighborhoods and gangly networks of petrochemical pipelines, storage tanks and wastewater impounds dot the landscape. In the middle of it all is what looks like a small lake that has spilled into the swamp forest and left patches of cypress trees dead and gray. But the body of dark liquid is not a lake, and it's not supposed to be there.

We're flying over Bayou Corne on the one-year anniversary of an unprecedented environmental disaster. The trouble started last May, when small earthquakes rumbled through the area, and fisherman observed the bayous boiling like crawfish pots in certain spots. Then, on August 3, 2012, an underground salt brine cavern collapsed beneath Bayou Corne, and a massive sinkhole opened up on the surface, replacing swamp forest with an expanding slurry pit of oil and salty water from deep underground. Since Truthout first reported on the disaster in December, the sinkhole has grown from eight acres to 24 acres across.

Observers point out that there is at least some good news. While the sinkhole continues to expand, it appears to be growing away from the neighborhood of 150 homes that has been under a continuous evacuation order for the past year.
....
http://truth-out.org/news/item/1805...n-eco-disaster-continues-with-no-end-in-sight

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

I noticed there's a spike in interest in this topic and I found that a UK website has an article today including an amazing video of the sinkhole swallowing another chunk of land and large trees that is posted to the Assumption Parish Youtube channel:


<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/yRhesBaRCME?version=3&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/yRhesBaRCME?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Here are the latest updates from the Parish blog:
http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/page/2/

And the UK website that reported today's activity: :tiphat:
Gigantic Louisiana sinkhole swallows dozens of trees whole ? video
Thursday 22 Aug 2013 12:48 pm By Mark Molloy
News reporter

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

https://www.facebook.com/RealCoastalWarriors

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

http://ascension-assumption.wafb.com/news/news/77721-residents-pack-bags-after-sinkhole-swallows-more-trees

Residents pack bags after sinkhole swallows more trees
Submitted by WAFB_Web_Staff
Thursday, August 22nd, 2013, 6:10pm
BAYOU CORNE, LA (WAFB)- Dramatic video of a line of trees getting sucked into the giant sinkhole in Bayou Corne is making waves online and in national news.

It shows entire trees getting sucked into the sinkhole in Assumption Parish.

The clip has convinced some homeowners to start packing their bags...

Posted at the Parish blog:
http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/515-p-m-update-from-the-office-of-conservation/

August 22, 2013
5:15 p.m. Update from the Office of Conservation

Sinkhole movement was expected and within the predicted shift zone

BATON ROUGE ? Today, Louisiana Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Secretary Stephen Chustz issued the following statement to update the public on response efforts in Bayou Corne and around the sinkhole. The update was provided after footage was posted online late Wednesday by parish officials that showed a slough-in along the eastern edge of the Bayou Corne sinkhole. Although the footage reinforces the seriousness of the evolving situation in the area and the need to hold Texas Brine accountable, it does not represent a new threat to public safety in the area.
DNR Secretary Stephen Chustz said, ?The sinkhole has continued to grow over time as we?ve expected. This growth is due to surface water, soil and broken rock that has moved down to fill the space created by the Texas Brine cavern operation that failed in August 2012. This movement is something we expect as the sinkhole shifts out into the predicted area. The failed cavern operation also created a pathway for underground oil and natural gas to rise to the surface. We have seen similar sloughing events several times in the past, often covering areas much larger than that which we saw Wednesday. Again, these movements are expected. We have the best experts in the world working to get this community back to normal as quickly and safely as possible...

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

http://www.stuarthsmith.com/update-expert-says-louisiana-officials-in-denial-over-radium-risk-at-sinkhole/

Update: Expert says Louisiana officials ?in denial? over radium risk at sinkhole


A veteran radiation expert says Louisiana environmental officials are ?in denial? over the hazard posed by elevated radium levels discovered in the slurry liquids of the massive sinkhole that has forced out residents of the rural town of Bayou Corne.

Stanley Waligora ? a New Mexico-based radiation protection consultant and leading authority on the health risks of naturally occurring radioactive material, or NORM ? confirmed earlier reports that radium levels at the site about 70 miles west of New Orleans are not within limits but roughly 15 times higher than the acceptable level set by the state.

Waligora said officials with the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality need to launch immediate additional testing to ensure that the hazardous radium is not leaking into nearby groundwater and posing a threat to human health as well as livestock...
- See more at: http://www.stuarthsmith.com/update-...radium-risk-at-sinkhole/#sthash.GEF41vBQ.dpuf

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

http://theadvocate.com/news/6985684-123/road-near-sinkhole-deformed

Road near sinkhole deformed

Officials don?t think events are related

by David J. Mitchell

September 07, 2013

Just another bump in the road in swampy, sinking south Louisiana or a more ominous early warning from the growing Assumption Parish sinkhole?

This sounds strange, especially the circle shape:

The eastbound traffic lane has a raised circular area an inch high and about 2 feet in diameter while two half-inch-tall ridges about 10 feet apart cross the westbound traffic lane.

Strange again:

DOTD officials issued a statement citing movements on Aug. 22 during a seismic event that displayed an ?elastic? property during which La. 70 shifted minutely but returned to its original position.

And a third type of tremor?

Boudreaux did say seismic monitors around the sinkhole picked up a new kind of tremor on Wednesday but asserted the tremor ? a single event that came and went ? is not related to La. 70?s rough patch.

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

The road happenings are a bit odd, aren't they? I've noticed that almost all of the sinkholes I've seen pics of are circular; I wonder why?

The latest update notes a new slough in has happened and a short video has been posted.

September 7, 2013
9:50 a.m. Update

Another slough in occurred overnight on the northern side of the sinkhole. The slough in took approximately 3/4 of the north work pad and trees to the north of the sinkhole. It is estimated to be about a section of 50′ x 75′ on the north side of the sinkhole. A short video of this area will be posted on our You tube site. Although this section is on the north side, it does not jeopardize the north berm or Hwy 70 at this time. A map of the area will be posted as well to show the area. We will keep everyone posted as things develop.

http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/

For those who can't see vids, here's a screen capture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cn4pGO56Yk&feature=player_detailpage&list=UURi6D8S8okOdYsJ-39YOvJw

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/america-tonight-blog/2013/9/12/in-louisiana-s-canceralleyhugesinkholecreatesmoreconcerns.html

Sep 12
In Louisiana?s 'Cancer Alley,' huge sinkhole creates more concerns
by Jordan Flaherty

For the full story, watch America Tonight at 9 p.m. ET/6 p.m. PT.

To live in southern Louisiana today is to know the pain of displacement and fear of a disappearing coast. We traveled to the southern bayous to visit homes in Bayou Corne, recently evacuated after a sinkhole opened up less than a mile from their doors. We were moved by what we saw in this beautiful community, about an hour southwest of Baton Rouge. We went to an organizing meeting at a library, and heard from residents who spoke of ?scars on top of scars? from both the loss of their homes and the health risks they face in an area known as ?Cancer Alley.?...

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

There was some hopeful news for residents who are trying to keep their homes in Bayou Corne. A technology called Dual Phase Vacuum Extraction (DPVE) is going to be used to hasten removal of gas in a shallow sand layer above the aquifer/aquitard layers. You can read about how that works at the Parish blog:

http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/550-p-m-shallow-gas-plan/

This is a slide from a CBI consulting group presentation that shows how effective DPVE was in a trial run on Texas Brine property.
http://classic.edsuite.com/proposals/proposals_280/gas.program.cbi_fi_691.pdf


Also, the results of a sinkhole survey have been published here:
http://classic.edsuite.com/proposals/proposals_280/august_sinkhole_survey_fi_692.pdf

This is a snippet that shows the discrepancy between John Boudreaux's sinkhole depth measurements and the wireline method used by an engineering firm:



You can see that he has run tests on three different days, with the same results. (The earliest 500+ result was when he ran out of line.)

 

[mixin]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

I wonder how the wireline method works. Boudreaux's method is pretty simple.

The videos of the Sept.16 meeting have been posted but I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet.

http://www.youtube.com/user/assumptionla

Also posted is the presentation that was given at the meeting. This one looks very technical; it's a 44 page pdf.

http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/OC/BC_All_Updates/BCPublic.Briefing.9172013.pdf

Subsidence info is posted here:
http://dnr.louisiana.gov/index.cfm?md=pagebuilder&tmp=home&pid=1150

 

[Emily]

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

The Advocate reported a theory about the gas source from a state consultant, geophysicist Don Marlin, that might not have been discussed up until now.

http://theadvocate.com/news/7085262-123/expert-deep-gas-sources-feeding

Expert: Deep gas sources feeding Assumption aquifer
by David J. Mitchell
September 18, 2013

...
He also suggested the dissolution of salt from the salt dome and its caprock could be releasing gas naturally trapped in the crystallized salt....

I wonder if he was referring to dissolution of the salt dome by contact with unsaturated water somehow, or the 'outburst' type state changes discussed here:
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=472992&postcount=112

It's interesting that the CDC was looking at gas releases from salt back in the early 1980's:

www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/UserFiles/works/pdfs/ri8700.pdf‎
Bureau of Mines Report of Investigations/l982
Methodology for Determining Occluded
Gas Contents in Domal Rock Salt

The Bureau of Mines became interested
in developing information concerning the
occurrence and distribution of gases,
particularly methane (CH,), in the various
salt dome lithologies, as a result of
increased concern about potentially hazardous
methane occurrences in Louisiana
Gulf Coast domal salt mines.
...
Given the relatively impermeable nature
of salt, the occluded gases generally
are not released from their containment
unless mining activities intercept
(1) a gas-filled fissure zone, an area
where the voids between the salt crystals
are interconnected, ( 2 ) a mechanically
unstable zone of gas-enriched salt
that disaggregates, releasing its entrained gases (a blowout), or (3) some other relatively permeable geologic
anomaly (1, 7).