Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

[Vibrant62]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

I recall vaguely that there are World Trade rules that more or less require the use of centrally produced seed grain produced by the big agrocompanies, that has to be bought from them each year. This seed grain is used the world over, including africa etc.

I find myself wondering how robust this production is? And if export supplies may be vulnerable (presuming it is all produced in a single location) in a pandemic. Anyone know more about this?

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

I do know that some countries have (or did) their own seed banks of locally-adapted seed. You cannot necessarily take seed that grows in one area and expect success in another seemingly-similar area.

I sure hope the seed production is not that centralized. Wouldn't happen to be a GM product would it? There was talk several years back about GM producers "hooking" everyone on their seed - with pesticide resistant seed. The vulnerability issue was raised and ignored. One argument against the one-size-fits-all seed was that pests, plant viruses, & plants adapt - rendering the GM seed useless. Now where have we read about this concept before?

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[4-ABBA]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

NON GMO HEIRLOOM SEEDS....this organization has been around since at least 1998...very high reputation.

http://www.arkinstitute.com/

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Think - APPLES!

and applesauce

and apple pie

and apple juice

and apple everything!

Then think apricots, pears, grapes, etc.

In the past, we ate those same crops without pesticides, hormone sprays, stop-drop, etc. We learned to check for worms before we ate the fruit.

My familiy lives in the middle of apple country and believe me - there will be excess!

WHen my mom lived through the depression and fuel, etc. was an issue - they ate LOTS of what was easy & cheap to grow. I actually enjoy many of the depression food dishes.

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I have my own apricot and pear trees, and have a few orchards nearby ... and if I have to I can also pick wormy apples & pears from wild trees in the area.
Worms are usually in only 1/4 of an apple, so the rest is O.K.

Canning jars and especially lids will be a problem for most folks when it comes to keeping the fruit long term..

If you have access to fruit trees, then by all means, buy a ton of sugar now...sugar keeps a very long time. Other home canners in the area probably won't have sugar or canning lids. And a lot of spices & pectin are necessary also. And buy extra fruit tree spray.


TV commercials and billboards can be used to advise people to garden, conserve and can foods

And these posters with inspirational messages might have to be updated:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/history/can.htm
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/worldwariiposterart/ig/World-War-II---Victory-Home/Lots-to-Eat.htm

And a lot more ideas can be gleaned from these old publications:
http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/homefront/gallery.html

It is surprising what a man can do when he has to,
and how little most men will do when they don't have to.
~ Walter Linn ~​

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Canning jars and especially lids will be a problem for most folks when it comes to keeping the fruit long term..

Try sun drying! I made a frame with 2 slightly separated layers of screen cloth and a black board on the bottom. I sliced tree ripened peaches, etc., put them in the middle layer (to protect from flies) and let the sun do it's thing. They stored nicely in paper sacks - only problem was that they were so GOOD, they would disappear.

Totally low tech, or "no" tech.

.

 

[T. ModestoPhD]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Try sun drying! I made a frame with 2 slightly separated layers of screen cloth and a black board on the bottom. I sliced tree ripened peaches, etc., put them in the middle layer (to protect from flies) and let the sun do it's thing. They stored nicely in paper sacks - only problem was that they were so GOOD, they would disappear.

Totally low tech, or "no" tech.

.

Great idea!! "screen cloth" is that the material that you use for window screens? how come a blackboard for the bottom is that to absorb more of the sun thus help in the drying process ? how come a paper sack? Is that for keeping it dark and preserved?

I'm new to all this. Like the idea. Will it work for blue berries and black berries? How long does it take in the sun, one day or several?

Think I will go to a thrift store and see if I can get an old blackboard or just get some old boards and use the blackboard paint. I know that the blackboard paint comes in green, will have to check on the black color.
Thanks for th ideas.
TM

 

[Snowy Owl]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Do not forget wheat, the basics of our food.

A good surface of 50 feet by 50 feet can produce an off wheat for a family of 5 for a period of one year.

There are Hard wheat and soft wheat.

Hard wheat is mainly used for making noodle while soft wheat is for flour.

I suggest dry milk, some high quality dry milk for veal are sold at 75$ per 100 pound.

 

[Jonesie]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Try sun drying! I made a frame with 2 slightly separated layers of screen cloth and a black board on the bottom. I sliced tree ripened peaches, etc., put them in the middle layer (to protect from flies) and let the sun do it's thing. They stored nicely in paper sacks - only problem was that they were so GOOD, they would disappear.

Totally low tech, or "no" tech.

.

Thanks for the reminder. I might lend out my little dehydrators to neighbors who have veggies and no jars. They can dehydrate their produce.

And another idea came out of your post. Why not take the screens out of the windows and place fruit and veggies between them for sun drying?
(But wash those screens first) And if you encase the 2 screens in another 2 screens, the buggie's dirty feet won't reach the fruit.

And in the absence of paper sacks, bags can be made out of magazines and newspaper pages. But then glue is needed.
I suppose cardboard boxes, cereal boxes, etc., could be used for storage also..
BHT is added to cereal boxes in the USA. I wonder if those boxes would help keep dried beans, rice and other foods better or longer?

 

[LMonty]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

also, hard wheat is for bread flour (chewier, more solid product), soft wheat (lower gluten) is for pastry flour- its the protein /gluten content difference that matters, and they can be interchanged in a pinch.

There are a limited number of perennial grains. Peters seed and research has been working on this for many years- Ive been watching it with interest- http://www.psrseed.com/perennialgrains.html
But, none that I know of that yield well enough to make such a crop economically feasible for commercial production in the Northern Hemisphere. And the term perennial truly means it will yield more than one crop= most annuals die after seeding. Many are killed by freezing weather. So there arent suitable in all areas, either.

Theres more info in this search if its something you'd like to research:
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?invocationType=topsearchbox.webhome&query=peters+perennial+grain

Snowy, I find the outline you've provided quite hopeful. The ability of each region to be self sustaining for the basics is key, IMHO. And then the cooperation and trade will follow.

For a moderate (18ish) pandemic, the implications to me are that command and control will remain mostly regional and thats a good thing. For a severe CFR the implications are a bit more staggering.

And thats the bottom line- recovery will depend on the how far and how long the free fall goes on, and the rate/depth of fall depends on several factors, perhaps the main one is CFR. Other factors such as opportunism of nations/states is a factor rarely mentioned in public fora but likely
discusssed behind closed doors. Another reason that continuity of goverment is important to us. Otherwise, the maps of nations borders may look different a few years post pandemic than they do now.

 

[LMonty]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Snowy- sounds like you've got those figures to hand, the latest experts thoughts on it- what do they say? I havent got it collated in my head, I'm really all over the place with that.


I need to run to work, I'll try to check in and check when I get a break...

 

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

This is the first I have ever heard of any perennial grain crops. How fascinating. As you are limited to only a few packets in some cases, this really isn't a short term answer but still a stunning revelation. I wonder what kind of bread it makes?

(Before I forget, do not use aluminium screens to dry foods! Plastic might do in a pinch but I fear they are not food grade and may cause other problems. Do look for food grade screens now.)

I agree with most of you, local bartering is where the system will regenerate from. If you stock up with salt, sugar, jars, lids, and seeds you are going to be part of the solution to normalcy. Educating yourself with pre 1940's technology will also be worth its weight in gold. Drying foods should be the first solution but in some climates this will be impossible. Salting would then be the next choice, with canning the last. Rodent and insect proofing your stores will be critically important. So too will be keeping foods as cool as possible. Accomplishing these priorities will be critical in places where the power supply is either nonexistent or limited, will help facilitate a faster and healthier recovery. No one wants to survive the pandemic only to succumb to hunger or food poisoning.

Learn to make a makeshift California closet. This is a screened in closet on the shady side of the house. If you add a sheet with a steady drip of water on the screened side, it will significantly reduce temperatures within the closet in dryer climates.
Stock up on garlic powder to kill food poisoning pathogens.

Other basic skills include making soap from scratch. Disease will run rampant through ours and every other society if we don't have access to soap. One of my professors in college said the direct cause of the sudden steep curve of population increases during the last millennium was due to the advent of soap. There are plants that make a naturally occurring saponin but they are very limited in spread and numbers. Cleanliness is not only next to Godliness, it is paramount for good health.

Once an adequate barter system is emplaced, a priority system needs to be developed. Babies need milk, so too do young children. Teenage boys in particular but, also men need more calories than do women and children. Everyone needs vitamins C, E and all of the B's. Looking for unusual sources of these to fill the gap should be in the back of everyone's mind. Using rose hips as a source of C is a good example. Spruce needle tea is another. Get a good reference for edible weeds. Euel Gibbons' books are one place to start but there are many other notable books as well.

 

[Sally Furniss]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Long term storage of fresh foods.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2815

 

[Sally Furniss]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

How to make a cool store to replace your fridge.

Use kitchen cupboards that are one above another from floor to ceiling.

A hole 2 feet long and 6 inches wide is cut in the bottom of the bottom cupboard and in the top of the top cupboard. The bottom hole goes to beneath the house.

The holes are covered with fine mesh to keep out insects and rodents.

Any shelves in between the bottom vent and the top vent should be made of slats with 1 inch spaces between them.

Note any ceiling insulation around the top vent needs to be removed.

There must be adequete space underneath the bottom vent.

Cool air moves from beneath the house through the cupboards and out into the ceiling space.

It helps keep food reasonable cool.


Many older NZ homes have these although their owners may not be aware of them as the vents have since been covered over.

 

[Sally Furniss]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Liquids/foods can be kept cool in a running water such as a stream. Must be in a water proof container.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Great idea!! "screen cloth" is that the material that you use for window screens? how come a blackboard for the bottom is that to absorb more of the sun thus help in the drying process ? how come a paper sack? Is that for keeping it dark and preserved?

I'm new to all this. Like the idea. Will it work for blue berries and black berries? How long does it take in the sun, one day or several?

Think I will go to a thrift store and see if I can get an old blackboard or just get some old boards and use the blackboard paint. I know that the blackboard paint comes in green, will have to check on the black color.
Thanks for th ideas.
TM

I meant a board painted black. Screen is a cloth - cheap rolls at hardware store.

The sandwich I used, starting from the top is:

top - screen cloth stapled to top frame made of 1x1 strips (keeps bugs out)
1 down - frame (that's a 2ft by 2ft frame, made of 1x1 lumber strips)
2 down - screen cloth stapled to middle frame made of 1x1 strips (place sliced fruit here)
3 down - frame
bottom - 2ft. x 2ft. plywood painted black

Clamp them all together when outside (bungie cord might work fine)

Place in hot summer sun until dry. I can't remember how long it took, other than it was fast.

Store in paper sacks until even drier. You don't want to trap moisture, which could cause mold.

Wash screen cloth after/before each use.

I only used sliceable fruit.

This MIGHT work with fruit leather. Maybe place it on wax paper.

.

 

[Chuckwks]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

I am a professional contingency planner with 20+ years experience working for a large multinational corporation. The restarting of a country that is as complex as ours is going to be a major issue. There is absolutely no experience in trying to do this. Each piece has restart instructions, but they are usually dependent on something else which is assumed to be available. Because of the power grid, a power plant can't just come back up and throw the switch. It has to be isolated from the grid and areas slowly brought back online. This all requires lots of skilled personnel, some of which will possibly either be still ill, or deceased. I'm GUESSING from past experience that some of the basic utilities will be back within two weeks after the major part of the pandemic has past (4-6 weeks??), but it may take upwards of another 2-4 weeks to get the rest of the functions operational. One thing that the restarting of the country will require is a solid managed crisis plan with some central control, and quite honestly, I haven't seen any sign of an existance of this type of planning. Most of the planning is focused on how do we get along without xyz supplies or resources, and keep from getting or spreading the flu. Very little thought appears to have been given to what happens if we have to shut everything down because of a critical resource like power going away and then try to bring it all back up again.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Welcome to the forum Chuckwks.

Re your...

One thing that the restarting of the country will require is a solid managed crisis plan with some central control, and quite honestly, I haven't seen any sign of an existance of this type of planning

Do you think the military can successfully fulfill that role?

.

 

[Chuckwks]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

No, the complexity of the infrastructure will require the skill of all the people who run it today. The military can restart a piece here and there, but because there is no one single piece of documentation that tells how it all fits back together, it will be very difficult. Just like starting your car, a seemingly simple process, but in reality it is a very ordered set of instructions that have to be carried out. Turning the key isn't all that is required. For instance, turning the key if the transmission isn't in park or neutral won't do a thing. If the electric fuel pump doesn't start a fraction of a second before the engine begins to turn over, it won't start. If the air conditioner was left in the on position the last time the car was started, the electrical circuits have to be disconnected so all the battery power can focus on turning the starter. And so on. Similarly, there is a logical sequence for starting up a complex infrastructure, I'm just afraid that no one has really begun to address the possibility to define what starts first, second, etc. I know that to restart our nuclear power plant in our state after a maintenance shutdown is a two week sequenced process. Any anomoly causes a delay. For instance, a computer once it has power can direct that a remote switch can be thrown to start a process, but if the communication network is down or unstable because there has been no power, the computer command will never reach its destination and the process may have to be started manually if someone can get a message through to perform the command. One of the things I worry about, but have no solution. There needs to be a restart guru somewhere that can direct the process. It is like an orchestra, each intrument has a written instruction of where it is to be played and what notes make up their portion of the piece, but it takes the conductor and composer/arranger to make sure that all the parts play in harmony.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

Welcome Chuckws. Interesting.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Local Recovery After Pandemic: HOW?

...the process may have to be started manually if someone can get a message through to perform the command...

This may not always be safe. I've worked with the process control computers monitoring/controlling large oil fields. Much of the computer processing is related to safety, so you would NOT want to start up one piece manually without the safety checks operating.

Many infrastructures need their own power supply.

.