Ivermectin - A useful treatment for COVID-19 coronavirus? Some discussion and studies...

[bertrand789]

mes propos du jour : il y a et avait x solutions , mais financi?rement, la "meilleure" c'est le vaccin.

pr?alable : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Vt...ature=youtu.be

Plongez vous, ensuite, dans le concept de synd?mie . Les pathologies qui s'expriment sont le fruit de nos actions ( m?me l'?mergence de ce pathog?ne). Aux ?tats Unis , l'esp?rance de vie a baiss? ? cause du surpoids. Ce pathog?ne tue mieux les ob?ses trait?s ou pas . En 1 an on aurait pu faire des choses intelligentes, en respectant le normal, donc le taux de vitamine D, par exemple, on a fait ?

On pourrait aussi parler des allergies alimentaires et de leurs causes.

En fait, tout ce qui pouvait responsabiliser les uns et les autres a ?t? occult? pour ne retenir que les contraintes collectives ?gales pour tous ... Il fallait des solutions ?gales, pour un danger qui vie de nos diff?rences ... Quand on sait cela , car on a ?t? form? , ce n'?tait pas dur de savoir ou et sur quoi investir quand on vie de la politique avec un petit p ...

ensuite c'est simple d'imposer la solution retenue : "Il peut ?tre n?cessaire d'acc?l?rer consid?rablement le d?ploiement des vaccins pour avoir un impact appr?ciable sur la suppression de la charge de morbidit? qui en r?sulte."

https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid...l-variant.html

Ces propos font suite aux propos indiquant que l'on peut faire faire un nouveau vaccin en 6 semaines d'une part et que une unit? pour en produire 700 millions de doses annuelles sera op?rationnelle dans 3 mois ...


C'est la limite de ce type de forum qui ne veut et ou ne peut parler de politique. Nous avons assist? ? une gestion politique d'une crise sanitaire qui a des causes aussi politiques.

Les acteurs ?conomiques , notamment dans le domaine de la sant?, n'ont fait que ce que leurs objectifs est : prendre leur part de cette aubaine ...


De plus, comme les contraintes collectives, ?gales pour tous , vu les in?galit?s en place , cela ne peut avoir qu'un temps, il faut passer au passeport de sant? ...


juste pour sourire:

un chinois paye 50€ ( de m?moire) pour se faire vacciner, et nous c'est pay? par l'?tat, avec ce que cela implique ... Le masque c'?tait investissement individuel , le vaccin c'est investissement collectif bient?t plus ou moins forc? ...

ensuite c'est simple d'imposer la solution retenue : "Il peut ?tre n?cessaire d'acc?l?rer consid?rablement le d?ploiement des vaccins pour avoir un impact appr?ciable sur la suppression de la charge de morbidit? qui en r?sulte."

https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid...l-variant.html

C'est vrai qu'un traitement ?gal , dans des pays construit sur les in?galit?s , cela ne peut durer que le temps du reset ...

 

[Vibrant62]

Bertrand - I am in complete agreement that a vaccine that is effective, is ultimately the best option, given to all. All however, does mean ALL people on planet earth, including third world countries - otherwise all that will happen is that we will get mutational variations that do evade the vaccine immunity, and probably quite rapidly. Most estimates I have seen state that even with vaccine availability, manufacturing limitations and limitations on the speed of deployment mean that such an escape is a question of when, not if. Data is showing that immunocompromised individuals can harbour active viral infection for a prolonged period, giving the virus plenty of time to find workarounds to both current antibody responses and other immune system mechanisms.

So there needs to be a plan B. The longer other parts of the world have to wait for their vaccines, the greater the risk it will come back to bite us later. This could be a cheap and effective way to block the chances of viral evolution in unvaccinated populations until such time as the vaccinations for ALL is achieved. Otherwise we could well find ourselves restarting the clock and going back to the beginning of the pandemic quite rapidly IMHO.

This sort of intervention would not be a replacement for vaccines - it should be adjunctive to the vaccination campaign, and ultimately, give it greater chances of success in the longer term as well as saving lives in the short term.

 

[bertrand789]

Merci,
dans le monde animal on voie cohabiter divers modes de gestion. Je pense en particulier aux influenzas . Les chinois ont choisi le vaccin, d'autres ont fait d'autres choix . Ces mondes peuvent cohabiter et se respecter . Le march? des vaccins animaux chinois en a fait r?ver beaucoup. En France, Il y a une telle peur de se faire bannir, que les bons travaux ne sont m?me pas publi?s. J'ai re?u un travail ?clairant concernant lien entre vitamine D et cas de covid en France, qui confirme mes impressions ...

En zootechnie , comme dans la m?thode HACCP , on cherche le bon indicateur . La vitamine D me semble , Le bon candidat . C'est donc le candidat , pour se retrouver au milieu de toutes les attaques ...

C'est un dossier positif,
il mouille tout le monde,
il sugg?re le respect du normal dans le cadre de l'antropoc?ne et du respect des diff?rences ...

Mais c'est aussi le dossier qui concerne bien des lobbys. Il y a les dossiers des statines, ceux des produits "m?dicaux " brevet? ( OKRANOL) , donc l?gaux., toute l'agroalimentaire, etc ...

Il faut une "sacr?e paire de couille", ou ?tre une femme* pour oser. Quand j'ai sugg?r? que la nouvelle patronne du C.D.C avait une belle autoroute , je ne plaisantais pas ...

Ceci n'emp?che que le reste doit se poursuivre, mais il faut que cela soit mani? par des mains neutres et form?es, car les erreurs qui nous ont amen? l? doivent ?tre mieux maitris?es ( voir r??ent message ebola like) .

Ce n'est, en rien, un plan B, c'est le plan qu'il faut formaliser. Merci, d'avoir us? du mot plan et non guerre . Ce n'est, en rien, une guerre, c'est une strat?gie partag?e de gestion d'un danger ...

Cette strat?gie: utiliser le su au mieux, tous les su. L'ivermectine c'est pratique, dans certaines situations , cela remplace la piqure d'avant ...

Il faut, au moins ?tre au C.D.C, pour disposer des protections n?cessaires et des savoirs et connaissances indispensables pour:

?laborer,
formaliser
et faire voter,
cette strat?gie ...



*la partie lien entre avitaminose D et augmentation du taux d'enfant autiste m?le, cela concerne toutes les femmes, non ?

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-020-00399-2

cette publication, c'est, bien plus que les morts covid, le d?clencheur. Car, ceux ( vaccin?s ou pas ) qui ne vont pas faire, et de suite, cela aura un vrai prix ...

 

[Gert van der Hoek]

NIH

Ivermectin


Last Updated: February 11, 2021

Ivermectin is a Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved antiparasitic drug that is used to treat several neglected tropical diseases, including onchocerciasis, helminthiases, and scabies.[SUP]1[/SUP] It is also being evaluated for its potential to reduce the rate of malaria transmission by killing mosquitoes that feed on treated humans and livestock.[SUP]2[/SUP] For these indications, ivermectin has been widely used and is generally well tolerated.[SUP]1,3[/SUP] Ivermectin is not approved by the FDA for the treatment of any viral infection.

Proposed Mechanism of Action and Rationale for Use in Patients With COVID-19

Reports from in vitro studies suggest that ivermectin acts by inhibiting the host importin alpha/beta-1 nuclear transport proteins, which are part of a key intracellular transport process that viruses hijack to enhance infection by suppressing the host’s antiviral response.[SUP]4,5[/SUP] In addition, ivermectin docking may interfere with the attachment of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) spike protein to the human cell membrane.[SUP]6[/SUP] Ivermectin is thought to be a host-directed agent, which may be the basis for its broad-spectrum activity in vitro against the viruses that cause dengue, Zika, HIV, and yellow fever.[SUP]4,7-9[/SUP] Despite this in vitro activity, no clinical trials have reported a clinical benefit for ivermectin in patients with these viruses. Some studies of ivermectin have also reported potential anti-inflammatory properties, which have been postulated to be beneficial in people with COVID-19.[SUP]10-12[/SUP]

Some observational cohorts and clinical trials have evaluated the use of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. Data from some of these studies can be found in Table 2c.

Recommendation

• There are insufficient data for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.

READ MORE

 

[Emily]

I noticed some posters on a cancer forum were getting prescriptions for Ivermectin to have on hand. Even if they are getting vaccinated, they are worried about strains that might escape the vaccine. They felt like this drug would be safer than HCQ and probably more effective, but were worred about politics getting this one blacklisted, too.

 

[kiwibird]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-56526632

The drug Ivermectin, which has been touted by some as an effective coronavirus treatment even though it is clinically unproven, is at the centre of a legal battle in South Africa as some medics want it licensed for human use, as Pumza Fihlani reports.

Many South Africans are desperate for something that could ease the impact of a predicted third wave of coronavirus infections.

With a vaccination programme that has not yet covered all the most vulnerable, there are concerns that the continent's worst-hit country could suffer more as the temperature cools down with the approaching winter.

 

[Vibrant62]

one would hope that the penny is dropping that the vaccines are not 'THE answer' but part of a broad spectrum approach that is necessary to combat Covid. The time for politics and vested interests to dominate is well past IMHO. I hope the media starts asking the right questions such as, 'why haven't the necessary trials to verify ivermectin's usefulness been executed and reported on by now?' and 'why isn't the data currently available sufficient to allow more widespread use?' There are some fairly substantial RCTs published.

 

[JJackson]

If you are interested in Ivermectin I would recommend listening to https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-599/ the problem is with it is dosage. Tests finding efficacy were based on concentrations over 1000 times above those on which the FDA authorisation as an anti-parasitc are based. When tested at the allowable concentrations it had no effect. Also it was found to have killed some dogs which had a particular mutation in their genome despite there not having problems otherwise. If a similar mutation is found in some humans it may end up killing them too at the dosage levels that would be needed to be of any use.

 

[bertrand789]

C'est le premier m?dicament qui en v?t?rinaire a montr? chez le chien, les bovins, les tortues qu'avec certaines particularit?s g?n?tiques, cela pouvait tuer. Le rapport b?n?fice risque a fait son usage en v?t?rinaire. Je ne pense pas que la dose soit importante, puisque ces particularit?s permettent le passage de la barri?re h?mato-m?nig?e, ou non . Cela concerne des anti-canc?reux aussi , il me semble .

Cette audio montre que des personnes peuvent communiquer avec courtoisie . Vu les publications d?j? sur ce sujet et les usages fait en grand en Inde

:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&as_sdt=0,5&q=ivermectin,+covid+,+india+&btnG=

10 avril 2020 La FDA ordonne de ne pas utiliser l'ivermectine dans le traitement du Covid-19. [SUP][[/SUP] 61 [SUP]][/SUP] ?

Le 6 mai 2020, le minist?re p?ruvien de la Sant? a approuv? l'utilisation de l'ivermectine dans le traitement du Covid-19. [SUP][72] Le[/SUP]

12 mai 2020, le minist?re bolivien de la Sant? a ?mis une approbation similaire.

https://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/আইভারমেকটিন

On ne peut donc qu??tre surpris de la position du laboratoire Merck alors que des chercheurs ind?pendants, des pays ont d?ores et d?j? donn? une approbation ? l?usage de l?ivermectine et l?inde a vu sa courbe de mortalit? fortement baisser depuis le d?but de l?utilisation de cette mol?cule en 2020.

https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-s...ts-favorables-sur-la-covid-19-dans-les-etudes

C'est donc un dossier qui permet d'entrevoir que les d?cisions locales sont diverses... De plus, lorsque l'on admet que cet "ange mal?fique" ne provoque de vrais probl?mes que pour une infime partie de la population et vu la non description correcte des populations test?es , il est possible que l'?pid?miologie descriptive soit plus pertinente , que la fondamentale .

Pour ?clairer , ce dernier point , je souhaiterai que les personnes dans cette vid?o expliquent les pourquoi des r?sultats des chinois?

Les publications mises en ligne, en ce lieu, chinoises, n'ont jamais d?crit les traitements de m?decine chinoise , lors des publications sur des traitements potentiels. C'est de la science ?

Dit, en clair, sur des populations , avec des parasites, connus comme sensible , ? cette mol?cule , son usage ne peut-il changer la donne vis ? vis de la covid ?

 

[JJackson]

Betrand it is definitely a highly effective drug when used to clear parasitic infections and works very well at low doses the point she was making was that the data showing it worked against SARS-CoV-2 was at millimolar concentrations rather than nanomolar. One millimole being one million nanomoles so the safety data for the former does not necessarily apply to the later. If people are taking it at the recommended dosage it will not do them any harm, but is unlikely to do any good based on the data, If they take it at 100,000 times that does it may well help with their COVID but who knows what side effects it may have.

 

[bertrand789]

j'accepte ces propos. Pour moi , nous ne sommes d?finitivement pas face ? une ?pid?mie , mais une synd?mie . Il me semble que la position de ceux qui veulent aborder une synd?mie avec des mol?cules class?es comme m?dicament et pour lesquels le fabricant indique que m?me ? 10 fois la dose ne sont pas dangereuses, peuvent ?tre en usage dans x populations choisies pour cela .

Dans ce dossier , on ne connait pas le taux de vitamine D des populations, on sait quel est le parasitisme en x lieux ?

C'est la quatri?me critique que je fais ? l'encontre de Monsieur : ne pas avoir incit? l'O.M.S ? d?crire d'une mani?re ?pid?miologique et scientifique a tu? et va tuer ...

Nommer correctement , c'est pour moi, le premier des traitements ...

 

[Emily]

If it is helping COVID patients, (I have no opinion on this), maybe it acts as an immune modulator somehow. I hope they don't do a toxic trial like someone did for HCQ. I think that one was a mistake in dosing, rather than a highest possible dose test. They should also do the trial in a region where doctors are claiming it works. Could be regional exposures to other pathogens priming the locals' immune systems. It might work in one place, an area in need of a cheap medicine, but be of no value elsewhere.

 

[bertrand789]

Emily , je suis d'accord. Si l'on admet que nous sommes face ? une synd?mie, il a ?t? d?montr? que les ?pid?miologistes n'ont pas ?t? bon, mais les autres l'ont ?t? aussi?

Le pr?alable c'est , nous sommes face ? une synd?mie , ensuite en chaque lieu, on fait en fonction du su ( vitamine, parasite , etc )

 

[Vibrant62]

A very interesting discussion was held between Dr Jon Campbell and Dr. Pierre Kory on Ivermectin.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19DPijOoVKE

Part 1 is also worth listening to.

Dr. Kory has been a mainstream part of the medical science establishment for years with a large number of peer reviewed studies to his name, and he raises some very interesting (but concerning) points at the end of this interview that are worth discussion. He states he has become cynical in the last year, but if what he says is correct, then our regulatory and science funding system (especially during an emergency) is very broken and needs urgently reforming to allow space for cheap interventions as well as the massive investments needed under Emergency Use Authorisations, especially when so many lives are at stake.

Expert review report on Ivermectin safety can be downloaded here https://www.medincell.com/ivermectin

Ivermectin pre-print review can be found here:
Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19
https://osf.io/wx3zn/

YouTube have taken down his webinar medical lecture (for medics) on the grounds it violates their terms of service. I watched this before it was taken down and it was pure science and data analysis. This stinks. Something is really very wrong here, and we all should be really very concerned indeed. The science MUST be allowed to speak for itself, especially as we see things unfold in India (and likely other places).

 

[sharon sanders]

bump this

 

[Vibrant62]

Further discussion of forthcoming meta-analysis paper on Ivermectin by Dr Tess Lawrie here with Dr John Campbell, and worth listening to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ju5v4TAaQ

I believe that this research gate publication contains some of the data they are referring to but I am uncertain that it is the full paper, as in the above interview (7th April) Dr Lawrie says that it has not yet been published but will be shortly, so it may be that this was an early analysis.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...fection_a_Systematic_Review_and_Meta-analysis

 

[Emily]

Tetano posted this. Treatment was HCQ, but it shows that doctors in Iran have more freedom than US doctors have.

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...-a-case-report
We report a case of COVID-19 infection in a middle aged Iranian man without underlying disease who presented with bizarre behavior. Results of brain imaging were normal, but COVID-19 pneumonia was detected on chest computed tomography scan. Given the respiratory problem and positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test for COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine was administered, and after 2 days all of the symptoms resolved.

 

[Vibrant62]

Indeed - and this is why all the RCTs on ivermectin for example have been coming out of countries that are not in the West, and where its use has been permitted. In general, HCQ has been found to have potent activity against the ACE2 cellular method of entry, but does not have means of blocking viral entry via TMPRSS2 - which partially explains the mixed results from studies into this compound. Used alone its unlikely to be that effective as an antiviral as SARS Cov 2 simply switches to the other method/s of cellular entry. The situation may be different when used as part of a combination of drugs, especially if other drugs target the TMPRSS2 pathway. The situation with ivermectin is very different.

 

[Emily]

I hope the hospital is sued for any damages the patient suffered while they ignored the court order.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/c...ermectin-following-legal-battle-with-hospital
COVID-19 patient shows 'improvement' after receiving ivermectin following legal battle with hospital

By Anthony Ponce
Published 1 day ago
Coronavirus in Chicago
FOX 32 Chicago
COVID-19 patient shows ?improvement? after receiving ivermectin following court order

After a short but tense legal battle, Edward-Elmhurst Hospital has agreed to allow an outside doctor to administer ivermectin to one of its COVID-19 patients.
ELMHURST - After a short but tense legal battle, Edward-Elmhurst Hospital has agreed to allow an outside doctor to administer ivermectin to one of its COVID-19 patients.

"She looks calm, relaxed, she looks comfortable, so this is all I can tell right now," said Desi Fype, who has been fighting for her mother, 68-year-old Nurije Fype, to receive ivermectin -- an anti-parasitic drug which has not been FDA-approved to treat COVID.

Since Nurije was placed on a ventilator April 28th, and with her condition not improving, Desi has been fighting for Edward-Elmhurst Hospital to allow the drug to be used.

"At the point of me having nothing else to lose, and seeing that no other treatment in the hospital was making her any better, I wanted to try something different. Why not try to save her life instead of seeing her decline?" Desi said.

While ivermectin isn't FDA-approved, some doctors say it's proved to be effective against COVID. Despite a judge's orders, the hospital had been refusing to administer the drug until Monday night, when it agreed to let an outside doctor give Nurije her first dose....

 

[Vibrant62]

A study from AIIMS - a very established research authority in India (and used by big Pharma frequently to conduct studies) has looked at ivermectin prophylaxis in healthcare workers. I dont think anyone is proposing that ivermectin could replace vaccines - it can't, but used alongside vaccines as an adjunctive therapy for high risk individuals and in areas with variants of concern could be a good idea?

The study is pre-print but can be found here https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-208785/v1

Study conclusion:

Conclusion and relevance Two-doses of oral ivermectin (300 ?g/kg given 72 hours apart) as chemoprophylaxis among HCWs reduces the risk of COVID-19 infection by 83% in the following month. Safe, effective, and low-cost chemoprophylaxis have relevance in the containment of pandemic alongside vaccine.

More on AIIMS here https://www.aiims.edu/en.html