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(Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

AlaskaDenise

AlaskaDenise

In Memoriam
Parents Throwing Swine Flu Parties

Doctors Warn The Parties Are Extremely Harmful


ST. LOUIS, MO (KTVI-FOX2now.com) - It isn't a trend exactly sweeping the nation, but some parents are throwing "Swine Flu" parties so their children will intentionally be exposed to the illness. Doctors warn parents these parties can be extremely harmful to children. Some parents say they believe if their kids are exposed to the H1N1 strain early, they'll only come down with a more mild case. Doctors at Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center say it's a bad idea.

Infectious Disease Specialist, Doctor Dennis O'Connor says he doesn't understand why people would want to have such a party. "Intentionally exposing your child to the virus has no medical benefit at all"

Doctors say it also comes with dangers and could mean your child becomes more ill. Dr. O'Connor says how sick you become depends on how many of the viruses you are exposed to.

Medical professionals say the best way to avoid H1N1 is to continually wash your hands. Alcohol based hand sanitizers are also very effective.

http://www.fox13now.com/news/ktvi-swine-flu-parties-090409-story,0,3093020.story
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Hmm... reminiscent of the old chickenpox parties... but I can see how some parents would think it makes sense. There's so much talk of how bad things are going to be...

As my husband says, "Get it now while there's still vents and nurses available." I think he may have a valid point, to some extent!!
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

What is new here is the statement that severity is related to viral load, and a party almost guarantees a high viral load.

If I get an early mild version I'll be thankful, but I won't intentionally expose myself to a pathogen with such wildly variable outcomes. Chickenpox was relatively predictable and outcomes were well known.

.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

AlaskaDenise said:
What is new here is the statement that severity is related to viral load, and a party almost guarantees a high viral load.

If I get an early mild version I'll be thankful, but I won't intentionally expose myself to a pathogen with such wildly variable outcomes. Chickenpox was relatively predictable and outcomes were well known.

.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I agree with you 100%. My point is that the "average" person doesn't consider things like increased severity due to viral load, usually due to lack of knowledge, and so they think, "Why not, indeed?"

Education is definitely important, especially when hearing about situations like this. ;)
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Also, the comment by my husband was tongue in cheek - he knows better. He works for OPH. I guess I should use the little sarcasm emoticon, LOL!
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Cairelle RN said:
........ My point is that the "average" person doesn't consider things like increased severity due to viral load, usually due to lack of knowledge, and so they think, "Why not, indeed?"

...
Click to expand...

Very true.

BTW - as a child I went to several sickie-friend "play days" during the pre-vaccine era. Vaccines are much better. :)

.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

AlaskaDenise said:
BTW - as a child I went to several sickie-friend "play days" during the pre-vaccine era. Vaccines are much better. :)

.
Click to expand...

I got chicken pox from deliberate exposure - and did the same thing to my girls when they were 2 and 6. :oops: I was also very lax in regard to vaccinations with them.

Thankfully I've had a few years of college and many more years of experience (both work and life) since then and can relate the importance of vaccines (and NO PARTIES!) to my daughter in regard to my grandson. :)
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

the doctors should argue more scientifically and give references.
If it were so easy with the viral load then make parties
with low initial load ?
Or in a real wave: use N95s instead of N100s wash hands a bit less carefull,
don't stay away from sick people but increase the distance...

test it in mice,ferrets

New York may show now, how much their "party" in late May
helped them
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

gsgs said:
.......New York may show now, how much their "party" in late May helped them
Click to expand...
You bring up an interesting point: what will happen in schools previously infected by H1N1?

That would be worth watching closely. What will we learn from those various outcomes?

.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Parents Throwing Swine Flu Parties

Doctors Warn The Parties Are Extremely Harmful
Click to expand...
How could any parent purposely expose their child to a virus that could cause death?

I am sure that the grieving parents of the 10 year old boy who died in Fairbanks Alaska yesterday are heartily sorry their son ever contracted the flu. http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124185
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

L. Al is right (#10).
___

After all of us here being readed so much individual reports from the field infected members of the illness persisting for months sometimes, and possible re-infections, joined with the possible 3-4 months only lasting immunity from such a party (if surviving),
there is no enaugh security and positive effects to voluntary risk expositions, apart of the risk of possible further wave drifts and the concerted experts flu party negative vote.


C., #2:
""Get it now while there's still vents and nurses available." I think he may have a valid point, to some extent!!"


Many folks didn't make it, no matter all of the vents, and nurses present.

The same fact that a person must be put in a coma for being ventilated (by special vents) is deadly.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

I would worry about going to a swine flu party for the same reason I'd worry about any type of live virus swine flu vaccine. Live viruses mutate. You don't know what the state is of the virus infecting someone that walks into a room with early symptoms. You don't know for sure if it is even the flu unless they were tested.

And though I'm aware of vaccine risks, these flu parties sound worse. If a mild version of the flu is circulating, you don't need to go out of your way to get infected. It will find you easily as you go about your daily activities.

That is natural, but seeking out infection is not.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Laidback Al said:
How could any parent purposely expose their child to a virus that could cause death?

I am sure that the grieving parents of the 10 year old boy who died in Fairbanks Alaska yesterday are heartily sorry their son ever contracted the flu. http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124185
Click to expand...

or heartily sorry that they hadn't sent him to a swineflu party before.
You have to calculate the odds.

However, with the vaccine in sight those parties become
less attractive.
And no signs for bad mutations/reassortments so far.

But assume a bad mutation with tripling of severety happens
in Asia and there is no vax ... would you recommend those countries
which still have the mild variant to hold parties ?
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

gsgs said:
> Doctors Warn The Parties Are Extremely Harmful

tell that to the government.
re-opening schools = holding a big swineflu party
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2008-2009/images/image342.gif

doctors don't know more than what the CDC tells them.
Click to expand...

The fact the estabs worldwide insists with free roaming expositions everywhere, doesn't mean that we must additionaly make a standing ovation and emulate ourselfs to be willingly exposed ...

Apart the many GP/... doctors uninforming, such NO party claims came from researchers.

There was at FT few months ago a thread post with a linked news of few high grade infectious specialists scientific opinion that it is not a good idea to party with flu.

A grassroot evaluation seems to confirm that have a flu party, with a subsequent possibility of an potentialy cripling or deadly infection (even in 0.x/1/1.x% of cases) in a vast potential of humans having underlaying disease, etc., is making russian rullete, if it is known the flu virus nature of many changings.

If indeed this virus change in worst, why we must think that be illnessed previously from the prior weak version will shield us?

If we make a paralele in the case of a seasonal vaccination, now when a slightly diferent new H3N2 appeared, the 2009 northern seasonal vaccination will not shield enaugh from it (as the sci. wroted), so this corroborate the above assertion that be infected with the actual pandemic strain will not shield us from an whatsoever drifted one.

Be realy intensively infected, insted of be only vaccinated, some spec.'s wroted it could be even worst - because the body was weakened prior, and that the next exposition to a new flu virus will at the begining started mainly the known old strain antibodies response, instead a new one in time - so, it seems there will be enaugh incognitas to miss any intentional exposition, to not be that the folk reach himself what he later got ...
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

morningperson said:
Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by gsgs
>re-opening schools = holding a big swineflu party
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
...this was my very first thought when reading the thread...
Click to expand...


If that was the meaning of schools openings insistance, it could be easily admited publicly.

But the above supposition is not corroborated by scientific releases about, at the oposite, exists many links at FT (example German-Docter posts about school closures), where there were studies about how efective is to make school closures in terms of slowing and deminishing the transmission.

The (FT threads) posts reported releases of some official health bodies about such schools openings, where the reasons were:
- mild (seasonal like) flu pandemic virus danger
- number of deaths "lesser" or similar to seasonal flu
- social problems if schools closes
- it is necessary to keep the education process going on
- the pupils will gather and mingle elsewhere
- money earning problems
- the virus could not be stoped if schools closes
- ...

I didn't see an official scientific or public health statement of "schools must be open to naturaly expose the pupils because there are no adequate vaccine in time" ...

So, if there will be no further diferent evidences ...
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

I don't pretend to fully understand the science or medicine behind immunity provided by infection or vaccination, but we know many people (ourselves included) who have been ill this summer repeatedly.

None of us were tested so we can't say with any certainty that it's been H1N1, but it's unusual to have flu-like symptoms in the summer months.

Repeated bouts of unending headache, dizziness, chills, body aches, fatigue and sore throats - with and without fever and coughs, sometimes with gastro issues. A period of being well between each illness. If what we and others have had is H1N1, it doesn't seem to care that you've been infected before.
Each new bout seems to be a tad different than the last and in my case, each has been a little milder, but I've been ill four times now.
Thankfully, it's never been serious even though I have underlying health problems.

It makes me wonder how much immunity infection or vaccine will provide.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

Two things.

One, the question of the effect of initial viral load, that amount with which you are infected with at the beginning, has on severity of the disease, has not been answered as far as I can tell. We've discussed this over on FW and the consensus is that there is no data to support it. If you are aware of some study which does, please post a link to it. Common sense seems to point to it being a factor, but maybe not.

Second, schools have become essentially uncontrolled state sponsored swine flu parties, whether we call them that or not. While I do not advocate swine flu parties I have to ask which is better, a controlled infection in which one knows the time of their infection and the need to avoid at-risk people, or an uncontrolled infection which could occur tomorrow, or the next day, or at the peak of the pandemic wave, and not know to avoid infecting at-risk individuals?

Infection is infection either way. The only difference is the timing and the knowing when one is infected.

Not a recommendation for swine flu parties. But I'm not going to say they worse than what we have going on in the schools right now.
 
Re: (Harmful) Swine Flu Parties again - why NOT to do it

I just saw a study today, old thread discussing it,
but where was it ...

they clearly said it depends on initial load

I also remember having seen it before
 
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