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Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

H

hawkeye

Well-known member

Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

* 16:02 22 June 2007

The flu virus persists so well on banknotes that money could help spread the next pandemic, researchers say.

Yves Thomas and colleagues at the University Hospitals of Geneva in Switzerland dripped various strains of flu virus ? including some that were circulating during winter 2007 ? onto Swiss banknotes and left them at room temperature for varying amounts of time before testing for live virus.

"We wanted to assess the survival of human flu on banknotes, knowing that billions of them are exchanged daily," Thomas says.

Money is so widely exchanged among all members of society that its movement has been studied as a model for the way infections spread.
At home in mucus

Some strains of flu lasted only two hours, but the most common flu, H3N2, lasted up to 72 hours.

However, all the strains lasted longer when they were dripped onto the notes along with human nasal mucus. Some lasted as long as 17 days. One strain that lasted only two hours on its own lasted 24 hours in mucus.

"I'm surprised the virus persisted so long," says Graeme Laver, an expert in the spread of bird flu, formerly of the Australian National University in Canberra. But the flu virus likes wet environments ? and mucus is ideal because it is designed to retain water.
Touch transmission

Typically humans with flu shed copious amounts of virus in their nasal secretions, the main route by which flu is believed to spread.

The extent to which flu spreads by floating through the air is debated by scientists, but experiments have shown that it is transmitted when people with flu touch surfaces that are then touched by other people.

This means that handling money within the lifespan of the virus could pass on the illness.

The findings were presented at the Options for the Control of Influenza Conference in Toronto, Canada, 17 to 23 June.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

72 hours?! Now do we figure out a way to decontaminate the money without destroying the currency, or do we keep reminding people to wash their hands often? Hmm, I think both. I wonder if we can't figure out a way for money to pass under an ultraviolet light before being put into a till? It isn't Joe and Jane citizen I am worried about it is those who handle money all day long. Grocery store clerks, bank tellers, and all the rest who handle money as a matter of course. Grocery clerks and waiters are especially problematic.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

Bannor
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 4225
Location: NE USA
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:



*blech*

Was it ever really a question, though? When you read about 1918, people in the most remote places still managed to get infected, as did people who came *out* of SIPing when a wave "passed".

However, seeing it confirmed is both re-enforcing and nauseating at the same time.

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gsgs
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Germany - math,programming
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:



so, how to desinfect the money ?
They should have devices for that in the bank...
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Bannor
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Location: NE USA
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject:



UV-C lights I would think. *anything* that comes from outside my house spends some time in a UV-C light box...

Nowadays, a lot of stores let you swipe your own card at a swiper and just sign. A little purell on the pen....

Hmmm


You know... it has been speculated for YEARS that the gov would like to get RID of paper money: it's very expensive to maintain, counterfeit problems, etc.... could this also be the perfect opportunity?

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Cruiser
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Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 448
Location: Fox Valley - Illinois
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:



Now I see why our highway toll collectors have been wearing latex gloves for the past 6 months.
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gsgs
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Germany - math,programming
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject:



you can't easily take an UVC device in your wallet and
at shop caisses. Also expensive.
Heat , chlorine , electricity , magnetism ?
electronical copper-foil-money ?
tweezers to touch the money ?
automatic money presentation by touching a button ?
...

doesn't seem to be a difficult problem. Should be done
even wrt. seasonal flu.
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BirdGuano
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 649
Location: West of East
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:



The new Visa proximity debit/credit cards are a contender.

You don't have to swipe it or touch a pin pad.

In a pandemic anything from the outside either gets bleached if a hard surface, or exposed to UV-C for 20 minutes.
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kr105
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Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 641

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject:



gsgs wrote:
you can't easily take an UVC device in your wallet and
at shop caisses....

doesn't seem to be a difficult problem. Should be done
even wrt. seasonal flu.


Actually you can! Thanks to one of the forum members (I think it was either Standing Firm, Happy Camper or Ready Mom) who found this little device (while still at the other site)



Its a portable, battery operated Germicidal UV light.

------------

At home, you can easily (and cheaply) make a germicidal lamp. Go to Walmart and purchase the GE undercabinet flourescent light strip (about $7). Then go over to Top Bulb and search for germicidal bulbs. Purchase the buld that fits into the light strip you purchased at Walmart.

It's what I've used for several years now.

Caveat: DON'T LOOK AT THE light/BULB DIRECTLY WHEN YOU TURN IT ON. In the past year I've gotten three sep. conjunctivitises. THe light source will kill the good bacteria in your eyes (which protect you from harmful bac. on you hands when you rub your eyes.)

-------------

Lastly, several members posted (last year) that it would be smart to prep some money in low denominations (lots of singles, fives, tens and change.) You give out the money, but don't accept any change. I thought that was a great idea and have followed it.

--
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Cruiser
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Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 448
Location: Fox Valley - Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:39 am Post subject:



FYI, a credit card inside a baggie will still swipe perfectly fine and in many cases better especially for scratched cards. Practice safe swipes - use a baggie!
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mach
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 387
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:40 am Post subject:



The other side of the coin ( pun intended ) is to have coinage that you have soaked in bleach solution, so you can pay for things if you have to. People may not want paper money because it is harder to disinfect, compared to coins which can be dropped in bleach solution. We have a bunch of Sacajawea dollars.
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ossie
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Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:



Has anyone tried microwaving a credit card? Does it damage the chip?

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BirdGuano
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 649
Location: West of East
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject:



ossie wrote:
Has anyone tried microwaving a credit card? Does it damage the chip?


Ya, and possibly the microwave too.
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Tamarin
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject:



I searched and found this link...a little different than the portable UV light above, but maybe easier to keep in a purse or pocket.

http://zadroproducts.com/nano_faq.htm

Sorry, I don't know how to post a photo.
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Tamarin
Advanced Member


Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject:



Here is one that looks like the one above but it is more expensive than the first one I found:

http://www.steripen.com/steripen_products.html
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Tamarin
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject:



Here is the first one a little bit cheaper and with free shipping!

http://www.coolstuffcheap.com/zadro-nano-uv-disinfection-light-scanner.html
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gsgs
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Germany - math,programming
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject:



they say 99% is killed in 10sec., but I'd like this to be approved
independently. And what area ? The power looks low, can it work
as compared with recommended 8W,20W devices ?

what about a chemical heater/burner ? Keep your wallet at 80°C or such
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Hope4Us
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Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1343
Location: (INFJ) WI, USA
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:



gsgs wrote:
what about a chemical heater/burner ? Keep your wallet at 80°C or such


Yeah, maybe we could invent that, and then we'd call it a 'HotPocket'.
<sorry.. couldn="" t="" help="" myself.="">
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Tamarin
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: Illinois
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject:



Hope!

I thought the virus could only be killed by cooking temperatures though which would make it a REALLY hot pocket!

What do you think about these particular UV gadgets, Bannor and kr105?
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gsgs
Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Germany - math,programming
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject:



heat has the advantage that you can disinfect multiple
banknotes at once.
Maybe a small heater in cars and public places and at caisses
to disinfect things would be suitable.</sorry..>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

Hat-tip to Sand. :tiphat:

Swiss scientists take note of bank flu risk: report
http://www.physorg.com/news119700582.html

January 16, 2008

Forget retail therapy for some relief from that winter cold -- a study by Swiss scientists revealed on Wednesday that the flu virus can nestle and survive on banknotes for more than two weeks.

Scientists from Geneva's University Hospital were asked by a Swiss bank to carry out the study amid worries that a flu pandemic could be prolonged thanks to the millions of bank notes in circulation, Le Temps newspaper reported.

Between 20 and 100 million banknotes change hands in Switzerland alone each day, it said.

The researchers left small samples of the flu virus on used banknotes which were then left at room temperature. Although the virus only survived in most cases for a few hours, certain highly concentrated samples proved resistant for several days.

In the worst case, if the virus was mixed with human mucus on the banknote, it could survive for two and a half weeks, Le Temps said.

"This unexpected resilience of the virus suggests that this sort of inert, non-biological support should not be overlooked in pandemic planning," chief researcher Yves Thomas told the paper.

The team will now do further research to see how much of a factor banknotes might be in flu transmission, though Thomas stressed that the main risks remain airborne transmission and direct human contact.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

I would assume those numbers hold true for other environmental surfaces. So we have a new source - ES2H.

.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

People who sneeze into their hands will be treated like lepers.

We need a campaign to promote sneezing elsewhere - like into the elbow area.

.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

This subject is an ad campaign that could write itself.

"Can I add some phlegm with your order?"
or

"Have some mucus with your money?"

Teenage girls would instantly carry hand sanitizer with them. Children would emulate the clueless person in the ads but, they would learn.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

AlaskaDenise says: "We need a campaign to promote sneezing elsewhere - like into the elbow area."

Times change. As a child, I was taught exactly this. I remember my mother telling me that hankerchiefs were 'filthy'. I still sneeze into my arm but find that most people who do not know me look a bit belwildered to see.

And, as a child I was always taught that money was dirty, filled with germs.
Guess that is why I now have none.

m
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

Welcome Meaux, and thanks for the last laugh before I retire.
44.gif


And, as a child I was always taught that money was dirty, filled with germs.
Guess that is why I now have none.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

Would placing paper money and possibly postal mail in the microwave help kill viruses and bacteria any?

Another thing I have done is place contents in a plastic grocery bag and spray aresol disenfectant in it, give it a shake and let lie for 30 minutes.

What concerns me as much is mail. All that licking envelopes and stamps being mixed with all that other licked packages. Mail can travel faster than money and is delivered right to the home on a daily basis.
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

Survival of Influenza Virus on Banknotes

<nobr>Yves Thomas<sup>*</sup>,</nobr> <nobr>Guido Vogel,</nobr> <nobr>Werner Wunderli,</nobr> <nobr>Patricia Suter,</nobr> <nobr>Mark Witschi,</nobr> <nobr>Daniel Koch,</nobr> <nobr>Caroline Tapparel,</nobr> and <nobr>Laurent Kaiser</nobr> Central Laboratory of Virology, Division of Infectious Diseases, University Hospitals of Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland; Swiss National Reference Center for Influenza, Central Laboratory of Virology, University Hospitals of Geneva, Geneva, Switzerland; Kantonales Laboratorium Basel-Stadt, Kontrollstelle f?r Chemie- und Biosicherheit, Basel, Switzerland; Federal Office of Public Health, Division of Communicable Diseases, Bern, Switzerland


[SIZE=-1] <sup>*</sup> To whom correspondence should be addressed. Email: yves.thomas@hcuge.ch<script type="text/javascript"><!-- var u = "yves.thomas", d = "hcuge.ch"; document.getElementById("em0").innerHTML = '<a href="mailto:' + u + '@' + d + '">' + u + '@' + d + '<\/a>'//--></script>. [/SIZE]
<!-- null -->
<table bgcolor="#e1e1e1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td align="left" bgcolor="#ffffff" valign="middle" width="5%">
rarrow.gif
</td> <th align="left" valign="middle" width="95%">[SIZE=+2] Abstract[/SIZE]</th></tr></tbody></table>
Successful control of viral disease requires knowledge of the<sup> </sup>different vectors that could promote its transmission among<sup> </sup>hosts. We assessed the survival of human influenza viruses on<sup> </sup>banknotes given that billions of these are exchanged daily worldwide.<sup> </sup>Banknotes were experimentally contaminated with representative<sup> </sup>influenza subtypes at various concentrations and survival tested<sup> </sup>at different time periods. Influenza A viruses tested by cell<sup> </sup>culture survived up to three days when inoculated at high concentrations.<sup> </sup>The same inoculum in the presence of respiratory mucus showed<sup> </sup>a striking increase in survival time of up to 17 days. Similarly,<sup> </sup>B/Hong Kong/335/2001 virus was still infectious after one day<sup> </sup>when mixed with respiratory mucus. When nasopharyngeal secretions<sup> </sup>of naturally-infected children were used, influenza virus survived<sup> </sup>for at least 48h in one-third of cases. The unexpected stability<sup> </sup>of influenza in this non-biological environment suggests that<sup> </sup>unusual environmental contamination should be considered in<sup> </sup>the setting of pandemic preparedness.


The prolonged stability<sup> </sup>of influenza in a non-biological environment such as on banknotes<sup> </sup>suggests that unusual environmental vectors need to be considered,<sup> </sup>particularly in the context of pandemic preparedness.


http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/AEM.00076-08v1?ct=ct
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

they should test it on animals, how many get infected by touching,
eating/drinking infected mucous. (vs.breathing)

they should publish questinaires on infected humans, whether
they can identify the likely source of their infection
and check the sequences.

do people with frequent contact to banknotes have more
often flu/ILI than others ?

Banknotes of several countries are probably suspectable
to different degrees, in some areas credit cards are more common.
Make a statistics.
Test banknote-disinfection at banks,caisses in some testing-cities
during seasonal wave

the mechanism, how people may get it from hands is also unclear.
They could film volunteers and review and analysize the habits
of those who become infected and maybe identify the way of infection
in some cases

why hasn't it been done ?
 
Re: Flu could hitch a ride on banknotes

"Test banknote-disinfection at banks,caisses in some testing-cities
during seasonal wave."

It don't worth it, because after you release it to the public hands, it would be reinfected multiple times.

Money bankn. are surely an way of manual infections during the virus survival period on the surface.

Classical letters, and posts, can be disinfected (y-rays), like it was at the ant. scare period.
 
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