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Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Re: OK, at the risk of embarrassment....

Re: OK, at the risk of embarrassment....

I will take a stab at it, Vinny.

Here goes.....

What we now know is that, through some process (I favor Dr. Niman's recombination theory), the H5N1 virus is moving slowly away from its affinity to attach to the cells of duck intestines, and is moving toward attaching to chicken throats and nasal passages. This is done by both changes in hemagglutinin and in the receptor binding domain (the PB2 strand of RNA), which helps steer and control what cells the HA goes for.

The PB2 changes (polymorphisms) are virtually identical to those found in human influenzas, both A and B types. This is extremely distressing news, because it moves us ever closer to a pandemic strain.

The problem is, human throats and nasal passages have very a similar cellular makeup to chicken throats and nasal passages, so the more the virus favors the chicken throats, the more it favors human throats.

This also increases the virus' morbidity, because the more cells it can infect right off the top, the victim becomes sicker quicker.

All of this was recently confirmed in a scientific paper, which the board discussed a few weeks ago in a post. Basically, a bunch of Europeans confirmed Dr. Niman's findings about changes in PB2 and the receptor binding domain.

In another study, it was found that only two -- TWO -- changes in the amino acid structure of H1N1 gave it the extreme lethality it was known for. Using that same logic, it means only two additional amino acid changes could turn our little H5N1 into another serial killer. Everyone is worrying if the HA and PB2 changes are part and parcel of this metamorphosis.

OK, gang, how did I do?

ABSOLUTELY STELLAR! Best explanation of "where we are" in H5N1 morphing status I've seen anywhere. <Even I could understand it...!!>
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

thankyou scott i understood that,it was well written,thanks again,:) .
 
Re: OK, at the risk of embarrassment....

Re: OK, at the risk of embarrassment....

I will take a stab at it, Vinny.
In another study, it was found that only two -- TWO -- changes in the amino acid structure of H1N1 gave it the extreme lethality it was known for. Using that same logic, it means only two additional amino acid changes could turn our little H5N1 into another serial killer. Everyone is worrying if the HA and PB2 changes are part and parcel of this metamorphosis.

Scott, you did great. Could I get your input on the validity of a statement in a recent article. (http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a768149644~db=all~order=page)

"While the Spanish flu virus possibly might be compared to a one-headed monster, it may be possible that highly virulent varieties of H5N1 virus might better be compared to a three-headed one - because there is evidence of at least three independent virulence factors connected with three different genes. It is highly unlikely that all of the high-virulence alleles will simultaneously mutate and disappear if and when the haemagglutinin gene changes so as to make the haemagglutinin molecule better adapted for the human-type (alpha-2,6-linked) receptor (which is a necessary prerequisite in order that a pandemic with H5N1 virus may start)."

You talk about "two changes in the amino acid structure". However, the article noted above implies that there are three different "high-virulence alleles", all of which would have to change in order for the lethality to attenuate.

Do you happen to know if this is generally accepted knowledge/theory? (I'd buy the whole article rather than just read the abstract, but it is $28 and I expect I would understand virtually none of it.)

Dr. Niman and Mike Osterholm have both pointed out that H5N1 is 10 times more deadly than the 1918 strain. It appears that the odds of it mutating to a less lethal strain appear to be limited.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Actually, H5N1 is much further along than most realize, and much more deadly than the 1918 pandemic strain. The details are fairly complex and the politics surrounding the science is without precedent, but the overall story is really quite straight forward. Influenza A has 8 gene segments which code for at least 11 genes. These genes produce proteins with various functions in the life cycle of the virus, which has to get into a cell, replicate, get out of a cell, spread within the host, and transmit to another host. Changes that affect each step can have significant effects on hosts, including death. With the right combinations of changes, H5N1 can be quite deadly, with case fatality rates was high as 100% (all reported infections in Egypt with HA M230I). Overall, the case fatality rate is closer to 70%, but that is still 10X the rate of the 1918 pandemic strain. Thus, if H5N1 is efficiently transmitted, 1918 will look like a walk in the park.

The "Asian" strain of H5N1 already has several changes in its 8 gene segments which have become fixed, or present in almost all isolates. The most well known change and the greatest contributor to pathology on domestic poultry, which is the criteria for distinguishing high path avian influenza (HPAI) from low path (LPAI).

To start an infection, influenza has to get into a cell, which involves cutting the H in half. This is done at the "cleavage site" and is done by molecular scissors that cut after a basic amino acid (R or K). Season flu has one R and cleavage is limited to enzymes in the respiratory tract, so season flu doesn't spread outside of the respiratory tract. HPAI has multiple basic amino acids (the classic cleavage site for H5N1 is RERRRKKR, so 7 of the 8 positions are an R or K), so it can be cleaved by multiple enzymes in multiple cell types, so H5N1 can spread beyond the respiratory tract, which is why patients can die from multi-organ failure and why H5N1 can be neurotropic (replicates in neurological cells such as the brain). The classical cleavage site of H5N1 was first identified in 1996 in a goose in Guangdong Province (adjacent to Hong Kong), so the H5N1 of concern is relatively new.

The discovery of the "guangdong goose" in 1996 was followed by the first reported human infections by H5N1, which were in Hong Kong in 1997. The H5N1 in patients (6 of 16 died) had the HA cleavage site described above, as well as a deletion (19 aa) in N. Deletions in N had also been associated with previous outbreaks in poultry (when it was called fowl plague disease). That version of H5N1 pretty much disappeared after all birds in Hong Kong were culled, but that N was quickly replaced by another N with a 20 aa deletion, which overlapped the 19 aa deletion, but was slightly downstream. This change has been described in the literature as appearing in the 2003/2004 explosion of H5N1 infections by the "Z genotype", but in reality, the 20 aa deletion has been reported in H5N1 in northern China in 1997, so it was flying around China long before it emerged in 2003/2004 in patient in Vietnam and Thailand. The 20 aa deletion in NA has now also become fixed in H5N1.

Another change is a 5 amino acid deletion in the NS gene segment. This change is also associated with a more lethal H5N1, which involves evasion of the host immune response. The 5 aa deletion in NS1 also appeared during the 2003/2004 outbreak and it too has become fixed in H5N1.

Another change in H5N1 is PB2 E627K. PB2 is one of the three polymerase genes involved with copying the influenza genetic information and position 627 comes in two forms. An E at that position is found in birds and the polymerase activity is highest at 41 C, the body temperature of birds. A K at that position changes the activity of the polymerase gene, which is then the highest at 33 C, which is close to the temperature of a human nose in the winter. Consequently, E627K is a "mammalian" change, that was first isolated from H5N1 from a bird at Qinghai Lake in May, 2005. That change has also become fixed in the Qinghai strain, which is transported and transmitted by long range migratory birds, and virtually all H5N1 north and west of China (including Europe, the Middle East, and Africa) is the Qinghai strain.

Thus, H5N1 has acquire several changes that increase its ability to cause lethal infections in birds and mammals. These changes above have become fixed in H5N1 in general, or in the case of PB2 E627K, the Qinghai strain in particular.

The ingredient missing from the recipe of a virulent pandemic H5N1 is efficient transmission from person to person. This is primarily controlled by the receptor binding domain in HA, which is a very small region on HA (including H5). A variety of changes in the receptor binding domain have been found, including S227N and M230I, which is adjacent to the receptor binding domain. Other changes have also been seen in H5N1 infected patients in the Middle East (Turkey, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Egypt), which is why outbreaks there are cause for concern, because H5N1 there also has E627K. These human cases in the Middle East also have a high case fatality rate, so small changes in the receptor binding domain need not cause a reduction in the case fatality rate.

The number of reported receptor binding changes in H5N1 continues to increase, causing concern that the combination of changes leading to a dramatic increase in transmission efficiency can happen almost instantly.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Given that M230I is in current H1N1, H3N2, & influenza B, why haven't we seen the "dramatic increase in transmission efficiency?"

What is stopping it?

.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

thanks for asking that question AD,ive been wondering that as well hopefully Dr Niman or someone else will be able to answer it for us.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Given that M230I is in current H1N1, H3N2, & influenza B, why haven't we seen the "dramatic increase in transmission efficiency?"

What is stopping it?

.

No one has said "one" change (there are 10's of thousand possible individual changes).
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

so if there are tens of thousands of changes required Dr Niman does that mean its years away from us(humans)
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

so if there are tens of thousands of changes required Dr Niman does that mean its years away from us(humans)
No, no one has said 10's of thousands are required. Only a couple or changes are required, which may have already happened or could happen by the time you ready this post.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

A K at that position changes the activity of the polymerase gene, which is then the highest at 33 C, which is close to the temperature of a human nose in the winter. Consequently, E627K is a "mammalian" change, that was first isolated from H5N1 from a bird at Qinghai Lake in May, 2005. That change has also become fixed in the Qinghai strain,....

Dr. Niman, can you please tell me what strain we've got in East Java Indo?
Does Indo have more than one strain running around in that Country?
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

sorry DrNiman i didnt clearly understand,hope you can accept my apologies.:)
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Does anyone else here know what strain we've got in Indonesia? Or if there is more than one strain going on?
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

A K at that position changes the activity of the polymerase gene, which is then the highest at 33 C, which is close to the temperature of a human nose in the winter. Consequently, E627K is a "mammalian" change, that was first isolated from H5N1 from a bird at Qinghai Lake in May, 2005. That change has also become fixed in the Qinghai strain,....

Dr. Niman, can you please tell me what strain we've got in East Java Indo?
Does Indo have more than one strain running around in that Country?
The Inodnesian strain (Clade 2.1) is in Indonesia.

http://www.recombinomics.com/phylo/HA_Vaccine.html
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Dr. Niman,

Is there any time this year we can stop worry for a few months about Egypt? That is, are the infected birds migrating away from Egypt any time soon? Will this be a seasonal worry this year or a chronic worry like Indonesia all year around?

Marilyn Bardsley
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

As this virus enters the entire chain of potential hosts (cats, dogs, rodents, small mammals, etc.), I wonder how many years it will remain quite virulent, with new seasons bringing new mutations (waves)?

.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Dr. Niman,

Is there any time this year we can stop worry for a few months about Egypt? That is, are the infected birds migrating away from Egypt any time soon? Will this be a seasonal worry this year or a chronic worry like Indonesia all year around?

Marilyn Bardsley
In Egypt H5N1 slows in the summer, but comes roaring back in the fall.
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Dark Horse (from another thread) said:
What would really be interesting is a map of Egypt that shows where the cases with M230I (or fatalities since each one that had the virus with M230I died) were versus the cases that recovered.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71420&postcount=16
Et voila!

Going by what the good Doc said over here...
Niman said:
Recent NAMRU-3 generated sequences from H5N1 isolates from patients and poultry in Egypt, provide additional examples of the emergence and convergence of M230I. M230I was first reported in the first confirmed human case this season, in Gharbiya in October. The same change was found in the two sequences from the Gharbiya cluster. The similarity between the HA, NA, MP, and NS sequences from the two family members strongly indicate that the third family member was also fatally infected with H5N1 containing M230I.

The sequences coding for M230I in the above patients was also found in poultry in Egypt. These sequences are also in recent H5N1 sequences in China. However, M230I in poultry was also found in isolates with sequences that matched H7N3 in England as well as two H5N1 in Asia, A/duckGuangdong/173/04 and A/Ck/Hong Kong/2133.1/2003. This coding for M230I has now also been detected in a poultry isolate from this month as well as the most recent H5N1 patient (37F) from Fayyoum.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70641&postcount=10].
...I worked up the map below. Dr. Niman (or anybody) -- let me know if I missed anybody or screwed something up.

On the map, the red dots are the people who had H5N1 with one of the M230I changes -- the dark blue dots are the rest of the H5N1 cases for this season (that's why the numbering starts at 15). The dot circled in neon green is the family with the Tamiflu resistant strain. The cases are:

M230I - 15. Hanan Abul-Magd (died in October) - Samannud, Al Gharbiyah
M230I - 16-18. 3 Farid family members (died in December) - Kafr Hanut, Al Gharbiyah
19. Warda Eid Ahmed (died in January) - from Hilliyah, Beba/Biba centre, Bani Suwayf
20. Nouri Nadi (died in Februay) - Al Fayyum city/district
M230I - 21. Nadia Abdel Hafez (died in February) - Minyat Al Hayt, Atsa/Itsa district, Al Fayyum
22. Mohamed Ahmed Suleiman (5M) - discharged 02/24 - Mashtul as-Suq, Bilbays, Ash Sharqiyah
23. Sara Al Sayed Ibrahim (4F) - discharged - Kafr El Geneina, Nabaruh, Ad Daqahliyah
24. Mohamed Mahmoud Ibrahim (4M) - Buhut village, Nabaruh, Ad Daqahliyah
25. Amira Abdul Latif Nayel (10F) - discharged - Aswan
26. Yusuf Mohamed Mahmoud (2M) - Aswan

Egypt 2007c.JPG
 
Re: Egypt fears of bird flu mutation

Very nice Theresa. We'll ask Sharon to give you a bonus in addition to your usual large salary. :D

.
 
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