Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

Redcass · Oct 17, 2014

This blog headline caught my eye. Here are some highlights:
A CDC spokesperson told the Wall Street Journal on Thursday that it was possible that passengers on Vinson?s Friday flight may have contracted the virus.
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On Tuesday, a spokesperson for the CDC told CNSNews.com that it?s ?not impossible? to contract Ebola from an infected person on a bus, particularly if the healthy person touches a contaminated object.

?It?s very unlikely,? CDC Spokesperson Kristen Nordlund explained. ?But if, say, someone was sweating or had blood and touched a handrail and then you touched it right after, and put your hand in your mouth, it is possible. It?s not impossible.?
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The CDC also explains a person may contract Ebola if he or she ?spends a long amount of time within three feet (one meter) of a person who is sick with Ebola.?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/cdc-now-admits-can-get-ebola-plane-bus.html

Sunfish · Oct 17, 2014

Re: CDC Now Admits You CAN Get Ebola On a Plane Or Bus

Re: CDC Now Admits You CAN Get Ebola On a Plane Or Bus

Redcass said:
This blog headline caught my eye. Here are some highlights:
A CDC spokesperson told the Wall Street Journal on Thursday that it was possible that passengers on Vinson?s Friday flight may have contracted the virus.
?
On Tuesday, a spokesperson for the CDC told CNSNews.com that it?s ?not impossible? to contract Ebola from an infected person on a bus, particularly if the healthy person touches a contaminated object.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/cdc-now-admits-can-get-ebola-plane-bus.html

This is somewhat alarming considering the attitude the CDC has had towards some of the passengers on those planes.

After calling the CDC, an acquaintance of mine who was on Vinson's flight to Cleveland was told that she was ?fine? and she should ?carry on as normal?. Worried that the requisite 21 day period had not elapsed, she has put herself under self-quarantine because she?s worried about her children. But she was not given any follow up procedures by the CDC or instructions to take her temperature or to avoid contact with people. Obviously she will contact the CDC again if she feels any flu-like symptoms, but she was surprised by their cavalier attitude and their certainty that she was ?fine? despite the warnings that the Texas nurse may have been contagious on the flight.

Personally, I?d like to think that the CDC knows what their talking about. Is there perhaps something we don?t know about the flight? Or about Ebola? Is it safe to say that people on the plane should just carry on with their lives without any cautiousness? Does this inattention to contact tracing towards people on the plane speak of naivety on the part of the CDC or perhaps a lack of funding?

GardenSpider · Oct 17, 2014

Re: CDC Now Admits You CAN Get Ebola On a Plane Or Bus

Re: CDC Now Admits You CAN Get Ebola On a Plane Or Bus

Sunfish said:
After calling the CDC, an acquaintance of mine who was on Vinson's flight to Cleveland was told that she was ?fine? and she should ?carry on as normal?. Worried that the requisite 21 day period had not elapsed, she has put herself under self-quarantine because she?s worried about her children. But she was not given any follow up procedures by the CDC or instructions to take her temperature or to avoid contact with people. Obviously she will contact the CDC again if she feels any flu-like symptoms, but she was surprised by their cavalier attitude and their certainty that she was ?fine? despite the warnings that the Texas nurse may have been contagious on the flight.

And now the CDC believes Vinson had symptoms longer than previously thought. http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/16/health/us-ebola/index.html If you watch the CNN video, the woman who owns the bridal shop where Vinson spent a few hours was alarmed at how the CDC seemed to minimize the urgency of her contact with other people. Though they later gave her a better indication of what to do than your acquaintance, Sunfish. Let's hope they get better organized. While the woman in the video seems willing to maintain a self quarantine there are people who are not. With something this serious, should quarantine be optional?

sharon sanders · Oct 17, 2014

Redcass said:
This blog headline caught my eye. Here are some highlights:
A CDC spokesperson told the Wall Street Journal on Thursday that it was possible that passengers on Vinson?s Friday flight may have contracted the virus.
?
On Tuesday, a spokesperson for the CDC told CNSNews.com that it?s ?not impossible? to contract Ebola from an infected person on a bus, particularly if the healthy person touches a contaminated object.

?It?s very unlikely,? CDC Spokesperson Kristen Nordlund explained. ?But if, say, someone was sweating or had blood and touched a handrail and then you touched it right after, and put your hand in your mouth, it is possible. It?s not impossible.?
?
The CDC also explains a person may contract Ebola if he or she ?spends a long amount of time within three feet (one meter) of a person who is sick with Ebola.?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/cdc-now-admits-can-get-ebola-plane-bus.html

snip

Federal officials are now seeking passengers on the flight from Dallas to Cleveland on Oct. 10, because the nurse may have been ill from Ebola earlier than initially believed. Previously, CDC officials said they were only primarily interested in tracking people from the nurse?s return flight from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday.

?Our judgment is that we can?t rule it out,? the CDC?s Dr. Chris Braden said in an interview after a Thursday afternoon news conference.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/13-ohio-nurses-are-being-monitored-for-ebola-1413465873

zincfinger · Oct 17, 2014

They'd better take it seriously : Re: Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

They'd better take it seriously : Re: Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

"The CDC also explains a person may contract Ebola if he or she “spends a long amount of time within three feet (one meter) of a person who is sick with Ebola.”"

Dead wrong as stated. It should be "The CDC also explains a person may contract Ebola if he or she “gets within three feet (one meter) of a person who is sick with Ebola at the wrong time ”"

It would only take a moment (the wrong moment) to get infected thru the air within three feet. Spending a long time increases the probability of being there at the wrong time. The CDC statement gives a very wrong impression that if it's only a short time, there is no risk. As with so many CDC statements, it gives a false reassurance that may lead people to take risks that they otherwise would avoid.

IMHO the CDC is consistently trying much too hard to trivialize and quell panic and far too little trying to give people an adequate understanding of the situation to enable them to cope with it effectively.

IMHO infection during air travel is a significant risk, whether or not Ebola has any true airborne capacity. Consider what happens in airplane restrooms. Consider how tight and cramped the space is. Imagine someone with diarrhea and/or vomiting. Also consider that at times there are people waiting in line and its likely someone will come in immediately after the sick person has exited.

The big problem here is that who got infected may be someone who was sitting anywhere on the plane with no relationship to where the person with Ebola was sitting (you grab the first empty restroom, which may be at the other end of the plane) Instead of a few adjacent seats, the potential contact list might need to be the entire set of passengers plus crew.

Laidback Al · Oct 17, 2014

Re: They'd better take it seriously : Re: Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

Re: They'd better take it seriously : Re: Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

Welcome zincfinger to FluTrackers.

Your point is well taken that increased time of exposure near an infected individuals increases your chance of becoming infected as well.

We know that for airborne infectious diseases where you sit in an airplane relative to a sick individual can affect the chances of becoming infected. As you note, besides the immediate seat area, the most likely area a symptomatic Ebola case would leave body fluid residue is in the lavatory.

zincfinger said:
. . . IMHO the CDC is consistently trying much too hard to trivialize and quell panic and far too little trying to give people an adequate understanding of the situation to enable them to cope with it effectively. . . .

I don't necessarily agree with you about the CDC. The world is in uncharted territory with an Ebola outbreak this large. The nuances of transmission are not thoroughly understood, despite the declarations of public health officials.

In the USA, the public has been trained to listen for 2-minute sound-bites. The public wants these sound bites to reduce the complex situation to a simple black-or-white situation. Am I safe or am I not?

The CDC is in a tough position.

Dani · Oct 17, 2014

Re: Ebola transmission via air travel? CDC says "..we can?t rule it out."

Truly, this talk about "it's not impossible," and "can't rule it out," are pretty much what physicians always say. It's extremely rare that anyone who deals with a biologic system (especially a complicated one, such as a person or Ebola, or both together) would say that something would not happen.

It all relates back to how research is done in medicine- 95% or 99% confidence limits, etc. Nothing is ever 100%, or 0%. It doesn't mean there's uncertainty, only that it can't be guaranteed.

Yes, the CDC is in a tough position, but I think the majority of people would be able to understand that being sneezed upon is completely different from just passing by someone, though both could occur in less than 3 feet. They do the public a disservice by making categorical statements on the one hand, and then hedging on the other. If one takes the time to explain risk, most people will understand. Not doing so makes the authorities seem duplicitous, or incompetent.

Ray · Oct 17, 2014