Ebola Transmission Discussion and More...

[Nordica]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea are now closing their borders, maybe they are listening to the flutracker members?

 

[Pathfinder]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Irish doctor tells of daily heartbreak treating Ebola in Sierra Leone
Joyce Fegan
09/08/2014 | 09:09

"There are a few rules in the Ebola treatment centre that are sometimes difficult to remember and go against our natural instincts," said Dr Fitzpatrick, from Killester."Firstly, shaking hands with anybody is forbidden and you must keep a certain distance away at all times."

Dr Fitzpatrick left his wife and child for Sierra Leone last Friday without a return ticket.
...

Comment from a reader:
amandaBiology
2 hours ago

This is an impossible scenario I know as beggars can't be chosers but I would rather they screen first for the NCP1 mutation. Those with this mutation have been shown to have resistant cells to ebola. Physician, heal thyself. If the doctor can remain healthy he benefits all and importantly doesn't end up infecting others. It is rather rare on the continent but Nova Scotia has as many as one out of 4 with it. Is it present here? It may be. It is something a charity could do right now gratis.
...
http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-treating-ebola-in-sierra-leone-30495285.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do people survive Ebola?
By Rachael Rettner
Published August 06, 2014
...
Finally, some people may be resistant to Ebola infection entirely, if they have a mutation in a gene called NPC1. Studies show that, when researchers take cells from people with the NPC1 mutation and try to infect them with Ebola in a laboratory dish, these cells are resistant to the virus.

In European populations, about 1 in 300 to 1 in 400 people have this mutation, Gatherer said. But in some populations, this mutation is more common: in Nova Scotia, between 10 and 26 percent of people have this mutation, Gatherer said. But the frequency of this mutation in African populations is not known, he said.

However, because these studies on Ebola resistance were done in a lab, it's not known for certain if carriers of the NPC1 are truly resistant to Ebola.
...
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/08/06/how-do-people-survive-ebola/

 

[Lizw]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

In my opinion the ability to control this virus in the US is directly proportional to the willingness to use force to quarantine. Quarantining is an effective method.

I have no doubt that the US government will use any force necessary to stomp out any ebola threat.

Very much agree, and the necessary executive orders are in place (which, sadly, is one of the reasons for the current level of hysteria right now).

Regarding the ability and willingness of organizations to isolate, the man who had traveled in Nigeria, and turned up at Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York with possible Ebola symptoms, was in isolation within seven minutes of when he walked in the front door, according to a hospital spokesperson. I can't imagine that any other hospital wouldn't do the same thing, within their ability to provide appropriate isolation.

Quarantine I'm less confident of, not because most people wouldn't observe the restrictions, but because of the ones who are whipping up their followers to believe that Ebola was created in a lab and is being used to "thin the population," etc. The ones who claim that Ebola has already been in the US for months and "we just aren't being told about it," as though it could be hidden. The ones, perhaps, who see the inevitable occurrence of Ebola here as a way to gain political points. I'm more concerned about the political and economic unrest that lot is likely to cause than I am about Ebola itself.

 

[Nika]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Agree completely. These purveyors of fear are hard to remove from the equation too. They are extremely tedious but free speech protects them for now. The whole "yelling fire in a crowded theater" criterion cant really be applied effectively here. Its people like these and their only too willing consumers that shame us as a culture. (Rest of the world must be wondering if Americans are REALLY this stupid or if its The Onion)

 

[JimO]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Quarantine I'm less confident of, not because most people wouldn't observe the restrictions, but because of the ones who are whipping up their followers to believe that Ebola was created in a lab and is being used to "thin the population," etc. The ones who claim that Ebola has already been in the US for months and "we just aren't being told about it," as though it could be hidden. The ones, perhaps, who see the inevitable occurrence of Ebola here as a way to gain political points. I'm more concerned about the political and economic unrest that lot is likely to cause than I am about Ebola itself.

I agree that quarantine of those who appear healthy could be problemmatic for a lot of reasons. As I stated above, I know that I would be very nervous if I was placed in a quarantine facility that housed others who might have been exposed. What happens if one person does indeed have ebola and starts exhibiting symptoms while in quarantine with others who do not have the virus; thus unintentially exposing more people to the virus? In West Africa, thousands of people probably need to be quarantined and they would likely be forced to gather many people into central locations in order to enforce the quarantine. My heart goes out to them.

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Quarantine generally means staying in your home, or in your village. I don't think this kind of quarantine was being enforced.

 

[newuser]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Alright, so, wouldn't someone on a plane who is symptomatic, i.e., with fever, at least, be able to transmit the virus by depositing bodily fluids onto plane surfaces, and then other travellers would touch them, and infect themselves by touching their nose, eyes, mouth, etc.?

 

[Emily]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Very much agree, and the necessary executive orders are in place (which, sadly, is one of the reasons for the current level of hysteria right now).

Regarding the ability and willingness of organizations to isolate, the man who had traveled in Nigeria, and turned up at Mt. Sinai Hospital in New York with possible Ebola symptoms, was in isolation within seven minutes of when he walked in the front door, according to a hospital spokesperson. I can't imagine that any other hospital wouldn't do the same thing, within their ability to provide appropriate isolation.

Quarantine I'm less confident of, not because most people wouldn't observe the restrictions, but because of the ones who are whipping up their followers to believe that Ebola was created in a lab and is being used to "thin the population," etc. The ones who claim that Ebola has already been in the US for months and "we just aren't being told about it," as though it could be hidden. The ones, perhaps, who see the inevitable occurrence of Ebola here as a way to gain political points. I'm more concerned about the political and economic unrest that lot is likely to cause than I am about Ebola itself.

Whatever those people are saying doesn't even come up when you search for news about Ebola, so any future or current unrest in the U.S. is unlikely to be caused by tired old population control theories a few people hear during every bout of disease hysteria.

What I wonder about is why do we suffer repeated bouts of disease hysteria in the first place in a prosperous, modern country?


http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118972/ebola-virus-obsession

"The people who worry about epidemics, after all, are people inclined to think in apocalyptic terms. They spend all their time looking at or thinking about things that kill people and then trying to talk non-medical people into what often seems like an overreaction."

There are theories explored in that article, but I think in order to panic anything other than small segments of a population about remote possibilities, you need to be an authority figure.

Now this is scary to me:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/liberia/11024010/Ebola-vaccine-wont-be-ready-until-2015-says-WHO.html

" Kieny, who headed WHO's vaccine division during the H1N1 swine flu pandemic in 2009, is acutely aware that helping rush a vaccine to market can cause controversy.

In 2009, WHO was accused of helping line the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies that profited from the swine flu vaccine.

"People might accuse us of playing with the industry, but all things considered, I would prefer to be criticised for a conflict of interest - which there definitely is not - than to be criticised for doing nothing," Kieny said"

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Alright, so, wouldn't someone on a plane who is symptomatic, i.e., with fever, at least, be able to transmit the virus by depositing bodily fluids onto plane surfaces, and then other travellers would touch them, and infect themselves by touching their nose, eyes, mouth, etc.?

I want to know this too. I think the case of Mr. Sawyer, who apparently flew on a plane while sick, will tell us a lot. At this time it appears health care professionals have become confirmed/suspected ebola patients as a result of contact with him. But there does not appear to be any exponential growth in Nigeria linked back to the date of his flight. He traveled on July 20 so we are at the 21 day mark now. It appears no one got sick from plane exposure in this case.

Here is an interesting video (hat tip tetano) interview of Dr. Tom Solomon who is Director of the Institute for Infection and Global Health at the University of Liverpool:

http://www.virology.ws/2014/08/08/zaire-ebolavirus-in-west-africa/


I would like to see a definitive case study of a patient from the current outbreak. A case study of Mr. Sawyer would be particularly informative.

 

[etudiant]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

It has been stated that the virus is not cleared from the body until several months after the initial infection.
That raises the question of when do infected persons cease to be contagious?
Is it once they are recovered or do they remain carriers even though well themselves?

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

It has been stated that the virus is not cleared from the body until several months after the initial infection.
That raises the question of when do infected persons cease to be contagious?
Is it once they are recovered or do they remain carriers even though well themselves?

Welcome newuser and etudiant!

from the WHO:

"Men who have recovered from the illness can still spread the virus to their partner through their semen for up to 7 weeks after recovery. For this reason, it is important for men to avoid sexual intercourse for at least 7 weeks after recovery or to wear condoms if having sexual intercourse during 7 weeks after recovery."

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=541990&highlight=semen#post541990

 

[Drexl]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

First, thank you guys for all of the informative, rational threads here. My question is simple - wouldn't it make sense to suspend or limit flights in and out of the afflicted regions for a while (save for medical or humanitarian purposes)?

Per the observation upthread, it seems like an airplane would be a great place for this virus to spread, especially given that surfaces are rarely, if ever, cleaned.

I know that this might invite panic and I also realize that people may travel over land to other countries, thereby spreading the infection. I also realize that it may hurt airlines financially (although Emirates and British Airways recently announced they are suspending certain West African routes).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...-halts-liberia-sierra-leone-flights/13630843/


That said, if this starts cropping up in Europe, Asia or the Americas - even if it can be contained in those places - behaviors are almost certain to change. People won't travel and economies will suffer. It strikes me that by limiting air-travel in/out of the stricken areas now will lower that sort of tail risk from occurring.

 

[Lizw]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Whatever those people are saying doesn't even come up when you search for news about Ebola, so any future or current unrest in the U.S. is unlikely to be caused by tired old population control theories a few people hear during every bout of disease

If you search with terms like 'Ebola, population' and a few other combinations you find things like this:

Ebola vaccine being fast-tracked as Obama signs executive order for quarantine.

What we are really witnessing right now with the Ebola outbreak is a push to fast-track Ebola vaccines in the USA in preparation for a*mandatory vaccination campaign*combined with a "gunpoint quarantine" operation backed up by a new executive order just signed by Obama. (2)

Learn more:link

Natural News is widely read and believed, unfortunately. And it's hardly the only source of misleading information, published with the intention of creating a mob reaction. But I'll quit harping on the subject. It's not my intention to be argumentative about it. I'm just concerned at what I see as political extremism getting in the way of medical common sense.

 

[Emily]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

If you search with terms like 'Ebola, population' and a few other combinations you find things like this:


Website name removed. is widely read and believed, unfortunately. And it's hardly the only source of misleading information, published with the intention of creating a mob reaction. But I'll quit harping on the subject. It's not my intention to be argumentative about it. I'm just concerned at what I see as political extremism getting in the way of medical common sense.

Thanks for sharing the link, Liz. But now that I have it, I don't think I want to share it further without vetting some info in it. We've strayed far from the transmission topic of this thread.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Thanks Emily. But I think we can leave the name of the site. It is a site that generates traffic to sell advertising. And they are not the only ones. There is nothing wrong with using the internet to generate income. It does not mean that all of the info is wrong. It means they have a profit motive. I am not familiar with the info on that site but people should take all information offered on the internet with a large dose of skepticism.

I have changed the name of this thread to include more ebola topics.

Thanks everyone for participating!

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion and More...

I also want to add that I have noticed many are using this tragic ebola outbreak to sell "stuff". All sorts.

Beware.

There is no proven effective treatment for ebola. Any vaccine that can be widely distributed is years away. The Americans in Atlanta have been given an experimental treatment but I have seen no report that this treatment has actually helped them. We just don't know yet.

Also, a company is claiming all over the internet & MSM that their internet bots helped the WHO discover this outbreak in March 2014. The WHO is on record saying this outbreak actually started in December 2013: "The current EVD outbreak began in Guinea in December 2013."

The first media report appeared on March 14, 2014. We have that French report, which we translated into English - with a time stamp. The people who helped WHO discover this outbreak are the health charities on the ground in West Africa. Several of these charities have long term projects in these countries and long standing relationships with WHO.

So view all claims of "fabulousness" with a critical eye. Unfortunately some are seeing this outbreak - not as a tragedy, but as an opportunity.

Shame on you.

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

First, thank you guys for all of the informative, rational threads here. My question is simple - wouldn't it make sense to suspend or limit flights in and out of the afflicted regions for a while (save for medical or humanitarian purposes)?

Per the observation upthread, it seems like an airplane would be a great place for this virus to spread, especially given that surfaces are rarely, if ever, cleaned.

I know that this might invite panic and I also realize that people may travel over land to other countries, thereby spreading the infection. I also realize that it may hurt airlines financially (although Emirates and British Airways recently announced they are suspending certain West African routes).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...-halts-liberia-sierra-leone-flights/13630843/


That said, if this starts cropping up in Europe, Asia or the Americas - even if it can be contained in those places - behaviors are almost certain to change. People won't travel and economies will suffer. It strikes me that by limiting air-travel in/out of the stricken areas now will lower that sort of tail risk from occurring.

Welcome Drexl!

Since quarantining is the only effective method to stop the spread, a natural extension is to include plane travel.

Apparently some are starting to take this avenue:

Nigeria Suspends Gambian National Airline Over Ebola Virus Concerns

Ivory Coast bans all flights from Ebola-affected countries

 

[Nordica]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion and More...

Ebola incubation period is between 2- 21 days.

Are there any studies on what issues effects the incubation time?

For example:
Does a higher dose of virus into the body give you a less incubation time?
Or..
Does the entry via the stomach gives you a longer incubation period then than via lungs or eyes?

 

[Emily]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion

Thanks Emily. But I think we can leave the name of the site. It is a site that generates traffic to sell advertising. And they are not the only ones. There is nothing wrong with using the internet to generate income. It does not mean that all of the info is wrong. It means they have a profit motive. I am not familiar with the info on that site but people should take all information offered on the internet with a large dose of skepticism.

I have changed the name of this thread to include more ebola topics.

Thanks everyone for participating!

No problem Sharon. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to link to that article or if members interested in disease transmission might be put off by web politics.

I do appreciate Liz pointing out that Natural News post since I found another article there that covers some of the issues at hand in responding to Ebola:

Ebola vaccine to be manufactured by criminal drug company with felony record; rushed to market with near-zero safety testing

Also candid observations by a prominent ebola researcher about how resources are allocated to healthcare in this country are worth noting:

Texas Researcher Might Have Some Treatments for Ebola, Needs Money

I don't think potential conflicts of interest are indictments of any kind, either. They should be apparent or disclosed if they are not, though. I heard of a non-profit website that turned out to be primarily driven by posts from opposing sides of large lawsuit. The strife made for a lot of hits to the website which was later sold for a significant amount of money which was used to seed a very successful commercial web enterprise.

That's another thing to consider before spending energy debating on the Internet. You should be paid to get ulcers. I fully admit I don't like web politics and strife, but the real politics of Ebola is undeniable:

Is ?Ebola politicized? or is Ebola Politics?
by Bai M. Gbala

 

[sharon sanders]

Re: Ebola Transmission Discussion and More...

Thanks again, Emily. It is hard to know what to do since we try to present valuable information. After moderating this site for a few years, it became apparent that sometimes it is valuable to occasionally mention a site that may have a obvious bias and/or promotes unreliable information.

We do not have all the answers here, but we pursue the truth to the best of our abilities.

We do not sell any ads or products. We do not accept any corporate or government money. We are not "owned" by anyone. No one is paid here. We are all volunteers.

It is a privilege to work with all of you. :tiphat: