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Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

GennieF

Well-known member
Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

(AP) – 58 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Tuesday that a massive school closing wouldn't stop the spread of the swine flu virus, saying vaccinations must be the defense against a menace that one report said could infect up to half of the population.

"What we know is that we have the virus right now traveling around the United States," Sebelius said in a nationally broadcast interview. "And having children in a learning situation is beneficial ... What we learned last spring is that shutting a school down sort of pre-emptively doesn't stop the virus from spreading."

Sebelius appeared on NBC's "Today" show one day after a special presidential advisory panel presented a grim report to the Obama White House, saying among other things that a "plausible scenario" for the United States later this year is wide-scale infections, possibly 30,000 to 90,000 deaths, mostly among young children and young adults, and perhaps as many as 300,000 sick enough to require intensive care unit treatment at hospitals.

Asked in the interview what people should do while awaiting the arrival of a vaccine, with first supplies likely by October but most not until the Thanksgiving season, Sebelius said: "I think it's important that people begin to anticipate that we will have a vaccine. We think it's likely that we're going to need two shots for the vaccine."

She said people should plan ahead for this, particularly those with pre-existing medical conditions, pregnant women and health care industry workers. Sebelius said federal health authorities also are recommending that people should immediately get their regular "seasonal" flu vaccine to bolster their health for the scenario yet to play out later this year regarding the swine flu virus.

"Seasonal flu vaccine is ready at the beginning of September," she said. "We want the population that is most at risk to begin their seasonal flu vaccine now."

Sebelius said on MSNBC that the government has asked drug makers to accelerate the manufacture of antiviral medication that could be administered intravenously to hospitalized swine flu victims.

A report by the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology, delivered Monday, said that while the impact of H1N1 was impossible to predict, a "plausible scenario" is that the epidemic could "produce infection of 30-50 percent of the U.S. population this fall and winter, with symptoms in approximately 20-40 percent of the population (60-120 million people), more than half of whom would seek medical attention."

Swine flu could lead to as many as lead to as many as 1.8 million U.S. hospital admissions during the epidemic, with up to 300,000 patients requiring care in intensive care units. In fact, those very ill patients could occupy 50-100 percent of all ICU beds in affected regions of the country at the peak of the epidemic and place "enormous stress" on ICU units.


Seasonal flue typically causes 30,000-40,000 annual deaths, mainly among people over 65.

People with certain pre-existing conditions, including pregnant women and patients with neurological disorders or respiratory impairment, diabetes, or severe obesity are at high risk, along with certain populations, such as Native Americans, the report said.

The fall resurgence in swine flu could occur as early as September, with the beginning of the school term, and the peak infection may occur in mid-October.

The report emphasized that this was a planning scenario, not a prediction. But, it added, "the scenario illustrates that an H1N1 resurgence could cause serious disruption of social and medical capacities in our country in the coming months."

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hjdCHrP82YTFser5vD6CzTK1az6wD9A9T4L81
 
Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

HOW is the vaccine is going to be an adequate defense when the peak is going to be occuring JUST as the small portion of vaccines arrive?
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This makes NO SENSE!
 
Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

For that matter, how is it that school closings don't help slow the virus from spreading?
 
Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

They truly, TRULY believe the American people are stupid. I am thoroughly convinced of that now, I am just so shocked and mad right now. I can't believe the rationale.
 
Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

They are really sending mixed messages if you look at the news stories that are out right now. I think they swing back and forth between wanting to warn people adequately, yet not wanting to cause panic.
 
Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Re: Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

For example: although there is significant evidence, as well as logic, to support the idea that school closure (and presumably similar social distancing actions) can reduce virus transmission, clear analyses are needed of what specific effects on the spread of infection in different types of communities are likely to result from school closures at different infection prevalence.

From the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology report on the H1N1 virus - http://www.whitehouse.gov/asset.aspx?AssetId=2544
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

To me, what she did with that statement is to reassure the schools to stay open. What a shame. And saying that the defense is going to be a vaccine that will not even be utilized until AFTER the peak of the flu? Ridiculous. That's like someone telling a person that there is a burglar on the prowl and that their neighbors have been robbed, but yet they sit back and continue to leave the doors unlocked. They don't buy the alarm and watch dog until AFTER they too end up having their stuff stolen. Too little, too late.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I suspect the federal government is walking a tight rope on this important issue. They are fulfilling their obligation to warn about the spread of the virus, but leaving it up to the locals to make the school closure call based on their respective circumstances.

The feds know that if a major metropolitan area closes schools, critical infrastructure entities (communication, transportation, energy, etc.) immediately see an additional 20% of their workforce dissapear on top of those already out with the illness itself. Some employees may be able to telecommute, others perhaps not, but the federal government probably does not want to be blamed for the impacts on critical services that may ensue if schools close for a lengthy period of time.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

The impact on critical services could be mitigated by cross training of workers and making plans for essential workers to stay on site as long as is needed. I know that my local utility had planned for this during the H5N1 uncertainty a few years ago.

I attended a regional Community Pandemic Mitigation meeting run by CDC and HHS a few years ago. The majority of the 100 people in attendance voted on closing schools when H5N1 appeared in the local community. Many others voted to close schools when the virus was reported in the state. There were a total of 4 these meetings held in the US. with similar results on school closings.

This time around there has been limited input from the public on decisions involving school closings. I can't agree with her statements. Closing schools will protect children to a greater degree then keeping kids in schools where
H1N1 will spread easily due to proximity.

If I had school age children, I would be home schooling them at this point.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

The impact on critical services could be mitigated by cross training of workers and making plans for essential workers to stay on site as long as is needed. I know that my local utility had planned for this during the H5N1 uncertainty a few years ago.

Yes, very good point, and this is certainly part of the CDC guidelines to businesses.

Please be aware, however, that the 20% figure, although rough, is post mitigation. Large businesses will typically have a 40% to 50% of their workforce with school age children. It is expected that perhaps half of those can make arrangements for the care of the kiddos, or can work at home, or can swap caregiver duties with spouse, or leave the teenagers to fend for themselves. The other half, say 20%, may not be able to make such arrangements, especially if the closures are protracted.
 
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Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Thanks, Mamabird, for pointing that out. I wonder what the 20% of parents do for childcare during the summer. I realize that a number of parent/ parents
leave their kids home alone.
In my area I have talked to county officials about running an emergency care shelter staffed by health professionals, dedicated to parents without childcare.
Well established interfaith partnerships in my area may help fund one.
I know it is not ideal, but it may prove to be a resource when schools close.
Of course by the time they cut through the red tape, it may be to late.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Thanks, Mamabird, for pointing that out. I wonder what the 20% of parents do for childcare during the summer. I realize that a number of parent/ parents
leave their kids home alone.
In my area I have talked to county officials about running an emergency care shelter staffed by health professionals, dedicated to parents without childcare.
Well established interfaith partnerships in my area may help fund one.
I know it is not ideal, but it may prove to be a resource when schools close.
Of course by the time they cut through the red tape, it may be to late.

And ST, I would suspect that if this were more akin to an 1918-like event, the guidance would be much different. At some point, we really have to just bite the bullet and begin serious social distancing.

As a parent, when I see a serious threat, it really won't matter what the school district does or what CDC advises. I'm sheltering in place with my little ducks in a row behind me.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Science Teacher that sounds like a good idea but practically speaking you are only exchanging one mixing pot for another. Whether the mixing pot is a school or a day care the kids are going to be sharing the same tight quarters with the same nasty results. This appears to be one of those no win situations where no answer is acceptable to everyone. Problems the government sees are:
If parents don't go to work because of kids at home the US loses productivity at a time when economic hardship is already causing headaches.
No income or, reduced income because of lost time at work will mean the difference between economic recovery and increasing recession. Even more people will lose their homes.
A huge number of people simply cannot afford to not go to work.
How many people need their kids to be enrolled in a school lunch and sometimes breakfast programs? The numbers are staggering.
Kids fall behind in school work. Perhaps falling far enough behind they will need to repeat a grade.
Unless we see a hideous number of deaths in a short time the government will keep schools open as the lesser of two evils.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

If this post doesn't go here please move it. I know how to reply, but not how to start a post!!

Has anyone seen anything on the news or here (I read alot here but may have missed it) about the school that is closed in Mobile Al? My sister lives there and has been telling me daily about more and more cases and a school that closed last week. My sister says it is all over her local news. Are there so many places that are having cases like this now that it's not news? And also it looks like schools "will" be closing if it is happening already!?
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

In a perfect world, I'd like all the schools to stay closed until the vaccine is ready. But that's not gonna happen. If that is not an option, the second best would be for the local schools to close down if the flu is becoming widespread in their area. Again, I am doubtful that will happen because even if the decision is in the hands of local officials, they still defer to the recommendations of the CDC.

I've heard the arguments against school closure and while I disagree with them, I accept that is pretty much the way things will be. However, what I have a hard time accepting is why aren't parents being given the choice to pull their kids out? When things were getting dicey this spring, I knew people who pulled their kids out (some had special risk factors) and were threatened with truancy :(

Fortunately, my state has pretty simple homeschooling laws and folks can pull their kids out on a moment's notice and file paperwork within 30 days. However, it isn't so easy in some states, and there is quite the process to go through. I tell everyone I know, have the homeschool laws and forms in hand NOW before TSHTF because you may need to make a decision quickly and who knows how hard these forms will be to come by?

I think in the very LEAST if they are not going to shut down schools they need to back off on charging worried parents with truancy.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Even one death of a child with no underlying conditions may change the mind of many parents.

They may come up with creative solutions to childcare - grandparents, partnering with a neighbor, etc. to keep their children safe.

.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I'm not talking about the parent's decisions, I believe most parents will do what they have to do, some will fight this and even protest like they did in the Spring.

My point is the school systems should should allow parents to pull kids out in a pandemic without retribution or threats.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

Science Teacher that sounds like a good idea but practically speaking you are only exchanging one mixing pot for another. Whether the mixing pot is a school or a day care the kids are going to be sharing the same tight quarters with the same nasty results. This appears to be one of those no win situations where no answer is acceptable to everyone.

I almost always agree with you Shannon, but I disagree with you here. I think daycares, though still a source for infection, are much, much better than schools for infection risk, and are likely to have a slower overall public infection rate than in schools.

My reasoning- at least in most public schools, kids sit closely in classrooms 20-35 + per room, and sick kids often go to school and are not sent home unless they are very noticeably ill. This leads to a higher rate of probability/numbers of infection per each infection, and longer exposure to others per infection.

Daycares vary. My babies go to a 'large home care' facility- up to 12 kids. And yes, unfortunately they get sick with something every week or every other week even with a strict sick policy, probably . But, at least in California most daycares in my area are small- 8 kids or less. There are large centers too (like Kindercare), which IMO are still better than schools regarding infection. I did interviews with Kindercare and they don?t accept sick kids at all and are very strict- kids nose gets wiped twice and the kid gets sent home. Any fever and the kid gets sent home. Kids cannot return until symptoms are completely gone for 24 hours.

Daycare rules vary, but at least in our area sick kids are NOT supposed to go to daycare. While this is an inconvenience and frustrating at times, and not failsafe as many illnesses are infectious before symptoms (and my kids have been sent home for a temperature of 99 degrees when teething) for the most part I appreciate the policy. Providers learn how the individual kids health works, and learn to differentiate from allergies and illness, etc.

Perhaps CA rules vary, but my understanding is each daycare provider can follow his or her rules regarding sick policy. Public schools are often very lax on this, and won?t send kids home unless the kids ask or appear very, very ill.

While it is true they are still in a closed environment, my reasoning is a single case of the flu t a daycare potentially exposes around 4-12 kids instead of 35. And most daycares remove sick kids entirely, and have plans to isolate ill kids until parents can get them.

My opinion is reinforced by personal experience. Both of my little ones got the flu. The first one got ill while at daycare, and I am happy to say that due to the attention he received (higher adult/child ratio) his illness was caught quickly and he got treatment very quickly. In addition, I am very, very pleased that due to our quick influenza-A test and informing the daycare, and the providers very stringent cleaning rules (she cleans the house 3-4 hours a day, but cleaned all of the toys, floors, etc. with a mild bleach solution) no other kids in the daycare got sick, and neither the provider, her assistants, or her family got sick

Sorry for the long ramble ? but in a nutshell I think that daycare situation is a better ?mixing pot?. I think it is preferable to schools by a long shot, as smaller exposures will be less of an infection rate than in schools, though definitely not as good as if the kids could stay home.
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

In a perfect world, I'd like all the schools to stay closed until the vaccine is ready. But that's not gonna happen. If that is not an option, the second best would be for the local schools to close down if the flu is becoming widespread in their area. Again, I am doubtful that will happen because even if the decision is in the hands of local officials, they still defer to the recommendations of the CDC.

I've heard the arguments against school closure and while I disagree with them, I accept that is pretty much the way things will be. However, what I have a hard time accepting is why aren't parents being given the choice to pull their kids out? When things were getting dicey this spring, I knew people who pulled their kids out (some had special risk factors) and were threatened with truancy :(

Fortunately, my state has pretty simple homeschooling laws and folks can pull their kids out on a moment's notice and file paperwork within 30 days. However, it isn't so easy in some states, and there is quite the process to go through. I tell everyone I know, have the homeschool laws and forms in hand NOW before TSHTF because you may need to make a decision quickly and who knows how hard these forms will be to come by?

I think in the very LEAST if they are not going to shut down schools they need to back off on charging worried parents with truancy.

Agreed 100%
 
Re: Discussion of...Sebelius: Closing schools wouldn't ward off virus

I almost always agree with you Shannon, but I disagree with you here. I think daycares, though still a source for infection, are much, much better than schools for infection risk, and are likely to have a slower overall public infection rate than in schools.

In our area of the little world, the public health authority's rules of engagement are to close individual schools as needed if they are experiencing a serious outbreak. However, if the decision is to close all area schools, that also goes for the daycare centers. Needless to say, tough decision.
 
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