Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

[sharon sanders]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

:tiphat:I was at the meeting, and am quite surprised at all the animosity about the "off the record" requirements. It was a gov't exercise, for how they will react to any emergencies that may crop up during the upcoming vaccination program. I guess I am not too surprised and I gave a careful and watchfull eye to the whole thing. Oh yeah, I took notes, drank water and listened intently as everyone did. I understand these feelngs of distrust, but must say it will only make a bad situation worse.

I intend to file my report soon, but it will not be a lot different that what you have seen already. It will be more in the spirit of "Mr. Treyfish goes to Washington".

They have to assume it will be as bad as you know it could be, and the gov't is doing everything it can, short of closing every school in America, to deal with it.
I think if the virus took a turn for the worse or did mix with a more serious strain, that would happen for sure. The one thing I can tell you, is these people, these public servants, these health officials, are not sittin on their hands or sleepin a whole lot. This should help you to remember that we are all in this together, and it cannot be stopped, but if we are lucky, through these exercises, less people will die and contingency plans can be made.

Mr. Treyfish goes to Washington thread:

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124105

 

[Snicklefritz]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

As a long-time 'flubie' I have never cared for lumping 'government officials' and 'TPTB' into categories and questioning their personal motives and integrity.

IMHO, blanket statements of mistrust of public officials say more about the poster than the public officials because their is no one 'public official'. But, there is one poster. Commenting about statements made and decisions made is fair game, but crossing the line into questioning another's personal integrity and morals weakens the integrity of the poster, and their arguement, more than than it impacts the subjects of the posts.

I also find it unseemly to implicitly question the integrity of the 'flubies' who attended.

Personally, I have no time or energy to spend on anything but working toward the best possible outcome for as many as can be helped. I think Treyfish has uttered a very profound statement:

I understand these feelngs of distrust, but must say it will only make a bad situation worse.

This is not some future pandemic we're speculating about. This is here, and now. Time to fish or cut bait.

2 cents from Snick

 

[drjagathv]

Re: FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Re: FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Congratulations to Sharon and all of FT, especially the dedicated, hard-working folks that tirelessly gather, translate and post bits of news from everywhere.

This news lifted my spririts, as I see it as a genuine sign of hope that the concerns, opinions and advice of the general public is respected and sought.

From where I am, it seems that most of the public is still blissfully unconcerned and unprepared for anything out of the ordinary.
The invitation is both an honor and an opportunity.

Congratulations.

 

[morningperson]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

I don't know Florida1, so I shouldn't speculate her thoughts, emotions, etc., but I'd imagine she's not thrilled about the "closed door" aspect of the meeting any more than we are. I don't think she has necessarily "embraced the dark side" either. If I were Florida1, I would have gone purely on the basis of: "keep your friends close, your enemies even closer." Also, I would never turn down an opportunity to learn.

 

[Treyfish]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Sorry, Mixin, but was I gonna drive 3 hrs and then just get up and leave? This has not or does not excuse anything any gov't, has or has not done. Did you think I threw you under the bus? Do you think I am afraid to post anything that doesn't look good towards the gov't? Do you think all other media outlet are just a Gov't stooge?

You would have seen that is not the case within 5 mins of being there. And I actually see that as smack in the face to me and you try to lump me in with all media types, if I could even be considerd one. I have never made 1 **** dollar from doing this.
How bout it mixin? I just lost my job, and about to be kicked out. I go to a meeting and the next thing you know, after giving you all I have for free for 5 solid years and now I'm treated this way?

I have been a newshound for 5 or 6 years and have alerted you.. personally, to more news than you can read in a month or find on your own in a year. This goes to all of you. Would I want a letter from them with an update everyday, personally directed to me? Of course! Is that gonna happen? Not hardly.
As far as controlling the media.. controlling what they said about what happened at this 1 meeting is not controlling the media. They are and have been free to say whatever they want. I AM AND HAVE BEEN ALWAYS ABLE TO SAY WHAT I WANT. This was an exercise, not a secret media briefing.

What. Do you think they told us dont ever talk about the pandemic unless we tell ya? Here is a big check stfu?
Did I know it was off the record when I left to go there? No. would I have went anyway? YES

Funnel you is a way I seem fit? Now that is funny. HAVE I EVER 1 TIME TRIED TO FUNNEL ANYONE, ANY WHERE? **** Find yor own news.. I won't be in the street worrying about how you feel about me and this meeting:tiphat:

 

[mixin]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Treyfish,
My reply wasn't directed just at you even though I quoted your "surpised", which utterly surprised me.

Do you think all other media outlet are just a Gov't stooge?

You tell me. You all attended a full day meeting and reported very little of what we didn't alread know.

Did I know it was off the record when I left to go there? No. would I have went anyway? YES

So what are you going to do with what you learned?

Did you sign an agreement not to disclose what was said at the meeting?

I know you're mad; so am I. Please don't get this discussion pulled due to bad language.

 

[tropical]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

After a juicy break,

going to more field handling:

Go to Land here,

This week, in my jurisdiction I have spoke to the authorities.

Here is the conclusions, once a Regional ICU is on its way to overwhelming and near an incapacity to threat, school will be closing.

I was told that as long it is mild, the capacity of treatment is the main determinant of school closing.

Snowy

Congratulations to the move Snowy, and thank you for the infos.

___

I must said that even the above cited policy of:

tolerating free pandemic flu spreading because it's relative mildness, until the Regional ICU's are near treat incapacity as a needed condition to school closings,
which will disseminate the illness vectors number giving more possibilities of viral changes, and all prior the vaccines (no matter if this flu seems light),

are evaded in some areas,
where such near reached peaks of treat incapacity at once (because of low isolation rooms capacity),
was resolved:
not by trying to lower the reasons of such more infectious incidencing at the source,
not by enlarging the organic and the ICU's,
and not by an insertion of flu fields clinics,
but with:

a public health decision of re-directing "same related group" patients with lower symptoms to GP doctors screenings, and home quarantines,
but nobody knows if and how much of them could after build up more severe symptoms,
all without any preventive school closures of course
- so it is stil in the cited not closures until ICU overwhelmed for treatments.


If they said not TO GP, but conduct GP home screenings at their's home, it could be passable,

but to leave free range such patients, infecting the whole transport and building trail, and further gone to be screened at the GP's public place office's ...,
that's contrary of the elementary spreading lowering measures, and put at much more infection risk all the folks by their's GP doctors practicing without masks/gloves/.../, and without vaccines.

 

[Commonground]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

mixin. I'm not even going to go into how much I am disappointed in you.
Refer to Snicks post. It's very accurate.

I'm also confused. So...you think Treyfish may skew the news to the Government's advantage. How exactly would he do this?
Treyfish's specialty is translated articles from other Countries. Unless you think he was swayed not to post them? For that matter, he has found many more articles on outbreaks, which is the bottom line...than you.
Another thing. If you don't trust the Gov't, don't read the articles. It's that simple. We track news. We don't get paid by or contact the Gov't to get a "pass" every time we find an article.....I'm just not grasping it...

You seem to have a blockage on the "tabletop exercise" issue. Once again, and I've heard it from 3 people who attended the meeting: Tabletop exercise. NOT informational meeting.

To help you understand what a tabletop exercise is..I'll post this. And if that is not enough...I quote Mike, from AvianFluDiary, who also worded it appropriately:

This was a `closed-door, off-the-record? meeting in order to promote a frank and open exchange of ideas. While we used a fictitious `tabletop scenario? to drive the discussion these meetings tend to take on a life of their own.

The tabletop exercise is a popular and fairly uncomplicated method of testing a business continuity plan. This type of exercise provides valuable training to recovery personnel and enables planners to enhance continuity plans without causing major interference of normal operations.
The Disaster Recovery Institute International (DRII) defines a tabletop exercise as, ?one method of exercising teams in which participants review and discuss the actions they would take per their plans, but do not perform any of these actions. The exercise can be conducted with a single team, or multiple teams, typically under the guidance of exercise facilitators.?


Planning the Exercise
No matter what type of exercise is being presented, it?s best to have an exercise planning coordinator assigned. This person selects the type of exercise to be performed and is responsible for selecting the components of the plan to be exercised. For a tabletop exercise, it?s the responsibility of the coordinator to:

• Identify the objectives;
• Develop an initial exercise scenario and narrative;
• Identify the participants;
• Chair the exercise participants meetings;
• Distribute minutes;
• Facilitate the exercise;
• Perform a post exercise analysis;
• Develop a scoring method relative to the response of the participants as their plans are implemented during the exercise.

The Scenario
The key to the tabletop exercise is the scenario. It must be definitive and sensible; a scenario related to threats that could occur and one that matches the organization?s need at the time of the exercise.
The scenario should identify and describe the type of disaster that has occurred and the extent of damage or disruption to the facility and area. In addition, the scenario should detail what recovery capabilities are available and the status of backup or recovery resources. Finally, it should outline the time of the event and duration of the exercise.
During the exercise, the scenario should enable the recovery teams to test the notification procedures (call trees and contact lists), recovery management, recovery operating procedures (tasks and responsibilities), the staffing of the teams and overall communications. Consideration must also be given to limitations as to what can be done in the exercise. It?s best to identify any assumptions that need to be in place for the exercise.
A chronological sequence of events will illustrate the mock disaster by identifying:

• The hypothetical moment of the disaster (time of day, day of month, part of year);
• The cause of the disaster;
• The method of notification;
• A description of the events of the disaster leading to the declaration and activation of the plan;
• A description of the regional implications;
• A description of the role of the civil authorities and their activities during and after the disaster;
• Any actions that have been taken prior to activation of the plan;
• The damage to the facility;
• The status of all personnel;
• The status of alternate processing locations, vendors and suppliers, backup storage arrangements and utilities.

-snip-
http://www.recoverychronicles.com/M...Article.asp?ID=42&FromNews=true&ArticleID=442

 

[gsgs]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

but why is it secret then ?
And why are the media invited to an _off-records
meeting_ , when their job is to _publish_ ?

Don't tell me they want to hear our (oops,I mean, F1's) opinions.
If they wanted that, then they would participate here

 

[prepdeb]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Against my better judgement, I'll drop a penny or two here...

Anxiety levels are elevated lately and perhaps some of us expected (or hoped) for more information from this meeting than was realistic.

IMO, being included and involved, at any level, is better than the being entirely on the outside. Networking and seeking opportunities to insert suggestions is the advantage of being inside.

Whatever fruit was gathered at the meeting can be used or discarded, but it was still worthwhile. If all you get is lemons, you can still make lemonaide.

Like most people, I've been waiting and hoping for more information from official sources and as much transparency as possible in planning.
While what I see and hear might be less than my idea of ideal, at least it's being addressed and not ignored.

Given our current economic situation, I suspect a lot of people who make decisions are weighing odds.
There's still the possiblity that this pandemic will not be horrible. It could remain relatively mild.

That's what I'm still hoping for, even though it means learning to cook with a lot of dehydrated food.

Let's all have a group hug or something mushy like that.

 

[Michael Coston]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Against my better judgment, I'm going to weigh in here. But I'm going to try to do so without violating the `rules'.

gs, I'm sorry, but you've got it wrong.

They did invite us to hear our opinions.

There were roughly 40 people at the table. Of those, I'd guess that 7 or 8 were `Federal Officials', the rest were media (including Flublogia), and bunch of local & State Health Dept. and Emergency management types, with one coming from as far away as California.


80% of the panel were invitees, maybe more.

The meeting began with an `on-the-record briefing', which lasted about 30 minutes. You haven't heard a blow-by-blow on it because it was essentially a rehash of last Friday's Flu View on the CDC Website.

The same graphics, the same data.

We then went `off-the-record' for the rest of the day, where we ran through this FICTIONAL tabletop exercise.

80% - 90% of the conversation was between the Moderator - and the Invitees. In comparison, the Feds had very little input into the table top.

Sure they participated, but they were badly outnumbered

THEY WERE THERE MOSTLY TO LISTEN . . and to learn.

And they heard the same message - over and over again from the media.


Don't expect a free ride or a rubber stamp. Expect policy to be questioned - vigorously. Expect opposing viewpoints to be aired.

Don't try to hide squat . . .we'll find out, and we'll burn you for it. Tell us everything you know, as soon as you know it - even it it's bad.


When I described the discussions as `frank' in my blog, I meant it. At times, it even became a little heated.

This was off-the-record so that we were all free to speak `frankly'. And I assure you, we did.

That's about all I can say.

But anyone who thinks this was some sort of a warm and fuzzy conspiratorial get-together with the Feds is way off base.

 

[Pathfinder]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

The "off the record" for me has been there since about May 15. It is the reason why I started tracking the flu on the web.

I care much more at the present time about the worried parents having sick children in bed and thousands of college students quarantine in dorms because of sickness. This is a time where we need to stick together as a teem to help these parents and children, and grandparents, and pregnant women, and teachers, and co-workers and all nations around the world.

This virus has created more then an infection. It has created greediness, discord, exploitation and mainly good friends turning their back on each other. May I suggest peace and love.

 

[tropical]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

The actual scientific health structure draws and drive all the health policies, worldwide also.



#1: "all actions are directed by the best science we have"


From the Trey. conf. info thread:

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124105


#1:
...
No microphone for me..probably a good thing.

Next was Secretary Katheen Sebelius from HHS at the podium. She spoke of the many scientists and making sure the pubic gets realtime info and that all actions are directed by the best science we have. The healthcare system may be overwhelmed and that vaccines are our best option and all need the seasonal vaccine also. There may be some attempts to tie vaccine to normal deaths that occur naturally.
...
Sebelius also said she wants the public to be provided with complete information and the last exercise led them to revamp quarintine procedure at the CDC.


The vaccine is voluntary.
They are sill evaluating the vaccine.

...

The virus jumped in spring, stayed steady all summer and is now having an uptick, mainly in the southeast due to school openings.

Here I will add I don't think keeping schools open is a good idea, at least until all the kids can be vaccinated and get an ideas as to how this pandemic is gonna play out. I am a parent of a diasabled child and am in no hurry to send him straight into the firestorm...and don't think I will until he has been vaccinated. They will have a hard time convincing me all is good with this thing, now that his kind are at the top of the list for vaccination.
If kids can be at home for 3 month and didn't starve to death or become competely useless, I think the parents can stand them a few more months. If they are afraid the econmy will be worse off than it is now, because a parent may be at home more often to take care of the child, Imagine how bad it will get when they are in the street bitchin that their kid is dead and it's the gov't fault for keeping the schools open.
...Jus saying, other countries are delaying the start of school until that happens, and this country has the technology to teach them at home.
...
Next was Bill Hall who told us from here on out we were off the record so everyone was free to speak. He ntroduced Forrest Sawyer as the moderator again as he was at the other meeting. Off the recrod, for the record, is a good idea but was unexpected I think by a lot of people, not just me. It is a way for the decision maker to realy go at it and be challenged not only by the mod, but by the tons of media peple there.
...
the media is asked how they will report on certain problems that arise. Some media said they would ride the problem like a rented mule. During these times I said to myself...What?.. and take Michael Jackson off the t.v. screen! You mean you would talk about a pandemic for more than 20 seconds! If you could have seen my eyes roll when they said that!
...
A lot of the answers to questions asked were already known to me and to you. Nothing added to any vaccines if not absolutely neccesary and all vacs are voluntary. This is an evolving situation and as much as we dont like it, or don't want to face it, we have no choice in the matter. Time to man up.

There will always be risks of problems in some cases of any vaccine use, but the benefits outweigh the risk. After all, this is a full blown pandemic and a vaccine is really all we are gonna have. At the end, everyone at the table had a chance to give a little summary on what they thought of the operation and what they liked and disliked about it, general statements and such.
EXERCISE OVER
Man was I glad..tired but glad to attend this meeting, as I think it will my last for a long time. I stand to strech out for a couple minutes and Mr. Fauci walks right by and we shake hand again real good and exchange a few words. I tell sharon good bye and thank you and that i will be home in 3 hrs and you know what I will be doing.
I head for the steps and reach for asmoke and when I get outside, I see Dr Schuchat. I shake her hand and tell her I have few ideas that may be helpful and she says great, email me and she gives me her email. She hops In a black gov't ride and I head for the Trooper and my ever faithful girl... we have a long ride home.

The pandemic is here now and I know for myself, that we won't go down without a fight.
These people are doing the very best they can under the circumstances. After Tamiflu wears it's usefulness out, what are you gonna have? You can't stay in your house and away from people forever. I can't drink cow urine. I dont have a cow.

 

[Niko]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Like most people who did not attend the meeting, I am curious about the details of the discussion and hoped that more could/would be shared. However, I think the more important issue is the results of the exercise. What policy or protocols changes will be implemented as a result of the scenarios discussed? If the government officials did not provide "information" that is new, what did the media provide to the government? If no one was enlightened and/or no changes are forthcoming, what was the point other than a "press-the-flesh" opportunity?

In the USA, mass media has been likened to a 4th branch of government - preferably, a part of the checks and balance system versus a tool of bureaucracy. In my opinion, mass media is generally failing to represent the public (with a few exceptions). Alternative media (in which I include FT, et al) has the opportunity, if not responsibility, to ask the tough questions and provide answers. I am glad that we were invited to participate and grateful that Sharon, Treyfish and others used their own time an money to be in attendance. Thank you!

 

[Niko]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

In the time it took for me to compose the 2 meager papagraphs in my previous post, Flu_Medic answered my basic questions. So, nevermind...em

 

[mixin]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

Commonground,
I'm sorry you are so disappointed in me but I stated exactly how I feel. My thinking isn't unique so I'm fairly sure others are thinking along the same lines.

I don't think I insulted anyone by asking honest questions.

I asked if they were ok with being fooled.
I asked what good can come of knowing stuff they can't tell us.
I asked how they were going to use that information.
I asked if they were going to funnel us in some way. (maybe guide would have been a better word)
I asked if they had a agreement in writing prior to.
I asked if they signed an agreement to not disclose.

Now, I know very well what a tabletop exercize is. I've read a few of them that were actually released to the public. Dark Winter comes immediately to mind but there were a couple of others. I think there was one with cattle that ended so bad it barely made it to the press before it was yanked. So forgive me if I'm a little suspicious of the exercises we're talking about here. I saw PCAST recommendations for scenarios.

There are 2 things here that continue to bother me.
1. I don't understand why the attendees aren't voicing their disapproval at the way the planners sprang the rules on them.
2. The planners could have released the attendees from the agreement at the end of the meeting. They said they wanted free discussion and got it; there was no reason after that to withhold what was said.

If it was no big deal, then just tell us what was said... end the speculation.

 

[Rwilmer]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

This discussion has gotten out of hand. Please try to tone it down.

 

[Shiloh]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

If they wanted the exercise to be public, they could have had it on C-Span. Everyone, chill out...it is time to move on.

 

[tropical]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

There are 2 things here that continue to bother me.
1. I don't understand why the attendees aren't voicing their disapproval at the way the planners sprang the rules on them.
2. The planners could have released the attendees from the agreement at the end of the meeting. They said they wanted free discussion and got it; there was no reason after that to withhold what was said.

If it was no big deal, then just tell us what was said... end the speculation.

Supposition answers )):

1. The "syndrome of vip vertics atendance" mist with curiosity ...

2. Yes, they could, but they don't ...
otherwise there could be public media readers jumpings about the worst scenarios; most (out of the heavy afected areas) of the some "informed" folks out there stil thinks that is only a teather scenario to gain money for vaccine productions, the most others even not contemplated any illness on the horizon ...

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Discussion - FluTrackers Invited to Washington D.C. to Media Session on H1N1

...........
80% of the panel were invitees, maybe more.

.....

We then went `off-the-record' for the rest of the day, where we ran through this FICTIONAL tabletop exercise.

80% - 90% of the conversation was between the Moderator - and the Invitees. In comparison, the Feds had very little input into the table top.

Sure they participated, but they were badly outnumbered

THEY WERE THERE MOSTLY TO LISTEN . . and to learn.

And they heard the same message - over and over again from the media.


Don't expect a free ride or a rubber stamp. Expect policy to be questioned - vigorously. Expect opposing viewpoints to be aired.

Don't try to hide squat . . .we'll find out, and we'll burn you for it. Tell us everything you know, as soon as you know it - even it it's bad.


When I described the discussions as `frank' in my blog, I meant it. At times, it even became a little heated.

..........

I'd say this was all a very good thing.

My 1st impression is that the officials are acknowledging the value of flublogia and media (however imperfect they may be).

Don't we want the officials to listen to what we've discovered and worked so hard to develop?

I've participated in table top exercises for emergency events. They were very valuable. The officials clearly valued the input of us non-government types. They used what they heard from the invitees in rewriting their emergency plans. It was a casual comfortable environment that created an atmosphere where everyone felt at ease and could participate - a different environment might have reduced important input.

I think what happened in the DC case is that there were expectations of information flowing in one direction and instead, it went the opposite direction. Had it been billed as a table-top exercise, the invitees may have responded differently. An unrehearsed response might be of special value because the participants would be drawing on their collective subconscious experiences.

Thanks to everyone from FT who took their own time and money to participate in this event.

.