Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning.... - Ja

[Mary Wilson]

Op-Ed: Why Redfield Is Wrong on SARS-CoV-2 Origins?Scientific data simply don't support the former CDC director's claims

April 5, 2021
by Stephen Goldstein, PhD

... Unfortunately, Redfield's comments don't advance the discussion of SARS-CoV-2 origins, as they are unrooted in any evidence (by his own admission) and plagued by an apparent faulty understanding of basic virology. Broadly speaking, Redfield finds it implausible for a virus to jump from a bat to humans and immediately be as contagious as SARS-CoV-2. Rather, he thinks the virus was manipulated in the lab through a process called serial passage and became better adapted for human transmission.

It's often stated almost as a truism, and apparently accepted by Redfield, that a virus crossing from animals into people has to undergo rapid adaptation to become transmissible in humans. While that may often be true, it doesn't have to be. We know SARS-CoV-2 itself can jump seamlessly between hosts ? it's gone multiple times from humans into minks and spread like wildfire. It transmits perfectly well among hamsters and ferrets in the lab. If a human virus can transmit among mink, there's no basis to assume a bat virus can't transmit among humans. Us humans may think we're very special ? but to a virus we are just another mammalian host.
...
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91932?trw=no

 

[Pathfinder]

With Virus Origins Still Obscure, W.H.O. and Critics Look to Next Steps
...
By James Gorman
April 7, 2021
Updated 12:55 p.m. ET
...
Critics of the report have sought more consideration of the possibility that a laboratory incident in Wuhan could have led to the first human infection. A loosely organized group of scientists and others who have been meeting virtually to discuss the possibility of a lab leak released an open letter this week, detailing several ways to conduct a thorough investigation. It called for further action, arguing that ?critical records and biological samples that could provide essential insights into pandemic origins remain inaccessible.?

Much of the letter echoes an earlier release from the same group detailing what it saw as the failures of the W.H.O. mission. This second letter is more specific in the kind of future investigations it proposes.

The group is seeking a new inquiry that would include biosecurity and biosafety experts, one that could involve the W.H.O. or a separate multination effort to set up a different process to explore the beginnings of the pandemic and its origins in China.

...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/07/health/coronavirus-lab-leak-who.html?searchResultPosition=1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OPEN LETTER

April 7, 2021

CALL FOR A FULL INVESTIGATION INTO THE ORIGINS OF
COVID-19

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/virus-inquiries-pandemic-origins/d7a097a4c758a65a/full.pdf

 

[Mary Wilson]

The World Needs a Post-Pandemic Health Treaty With Teeth

Today, 05:26 PM
WHO has no power to demand openness or independently confirm data at present.

APRIL 5, 2021, 3:40 PM
BY LAWRENCE O. GOSTIN, ERIC A. FRIEDMAN, LAUREN DUECK

The COVID-19 pandemic has revealed the devastating and deadly shortcomings of current global health cooperation and governance, leading 25 world leaders to callfor a powerful upgrade: a pandemic treaty. The International Health Regulations (IHR) is the world?s current global health treaty, but from the beginning of the pandemic the regulations failed.

China?s lack of transparency during the 2002-2003 SARS epidemic sparked major IHR reforms in 2005?but fast-forward to the COVID-19 pandemic, and China still delayed weeks before confirming the outbreak. The government denied human-to-human transmission, despite widespread community spread. The World Health Organization (WHO) remained powerless to demand transparency and accountability, because it lacked the tools to independently confirm data or operate in a country without its permission.

What would an effective and powerful treaty look like? A joint press briefing from WHO and European Council last week argued for a rapid and verifiable alert system, data sharing, transparency, improved supply chains for vaccines and therapeutics, and equity in the distribution of personal protective equipment and medical countermeasures.
...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/05...h-regulations/

 

[Emily]

He writes, "Redfield's more sinister claim ? that Chinese researchers passaged this virus repeatedly..."
Unwise, perhaps, but what is sinister about passaging pathogens through human cell lines for research purposes? Goldstein's own lab seems to be doing this or at least proposing to do this. (Through the HeLa line which was obtained without consent from a woman's biopsy in the 1950's.)
https://cellvolution.org/experimental-evolution.html

 

[Emily]

Indeed, Gert. The whole paper is available in PDF format. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2104.01533
"Regarding the potential connection of our findings to uncovering SARS-CoV-2
origins, one of the main arguments for the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 could not be
have been an engineered virus, ?if genetic manipulation had been performed, one of
the several reverse-genetic systems available for Betacoronaviruses would probably
have been used? (Andersen et al. 2020) is clearly invalidated by our work. There are
no known publications documenting a reverse genetic system on the strain
BtTp-BetaCoV/GX2012, from which the backbone of the novel HKU4-r CoV
purported human infectious clone identified here was derived. Compared with
BtTp-betaCoV-GX2012 we note minimal insertions: notably the insertion of the
sequence TTT between A5555-A5558 and the sequence TGTTCC between
A8183-T8190 in ORF1a. This is quite unexpected for directed engineering, indicating
that an unpublished backbone was used. Neither the exact sequence nor the reverse
genetic system that was used to construct this sequence has been published.
The fact that this infectious clone was discovered in an unlikely dataset, as a
contaminant in a HZAU rice sequence bioproject, raises the question as to how many
more potentially pathogenic coronaviruses have been researched by the WIV without
disclosure to the international scientific community.

...
The lack of obvious patterns for restriction sites in the newly discovered HKU4 clone
and other wild isolates of HKU4 and MERS-CoV demonstrates the weakness of
attempting to use assumed predictable genetic signatures left by detection for
signatures of genetic laboratory engineering using properties of the viral sequences
alone. This is especially true when the original sequence has been kept unpublished,
making the closest related natural sequences inadequate for use as reference
sequences due to the large evolutionary distances masking potential signatures within
a large number of potentially natural changes during evolution from one sequence to
another.
The existence of such a clone from the contamination of an SRA dataset sequenced
and submitted by a laboratory in Wuhan, also demonstrates that systems which can be
used to seamlessly assemble an infectious coronavirus without leaving any genomic
fingerprints are in use by laboratories in Wuhan....

 

[Emily]

Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day. Miles Yu appears unconnected to the organic farming defamation discussed in Wiki and has the background to have insight into the CCP government.
https://www.usna.edu/Users/history/yu/index.php

 

[sharon sanders]

bump this

 

[Pathfinder]

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Zhao Lijian's Regular Press Conference on April 8, 2021
...
Global Times: According to media reports, 24 scientists and researchers from Europe, the United States, Australia and Japan said in an open letter that the joint China-WHO study into COVID-19 has provided no credible answers about how the pandemic began, and that the study was tainted by politics. Jamie Metzl, senior fellow at the Atlantic Council think tank, who drafted the letter, said that "China has databases of what viruses were being held... there are lab notes of the work that was being done...there are all kinds of scientists who are actually doing the work and we don't have access to any of those resources, or any of those people". He said China should disclose information that would allow the lab hypothesis to be disproved. I wonder if China has any comment on that?

A: This reminds me of the previous so-called "open letter of scientists" that came out on March 4. It was also drafted by Jamie Metzl, a former member of the White House National Security Council and signed by almost the same group of people. The purpose of these two so-called open letters, one issued right before the WHO joint study report was to be made public and the other shortly after the report was released, is obviously to mount pressure on the WHO and the joint mission. These signatories can deceive no one as to whether their letters are meant to make a true proposal for scientific and professional origin-tracing or target a specific country with presumption of guilt.

The Chinese side has provided an abundance of manpower and material support to the joint mission for its origin-tracing study in China. We fully respect and have made every effort to meet the requests independently put forward by the mission as to the places they would like to see. China's openness and transparency is well commended by the mission. The origin-tracing study was indeed affected by political factors, but that did not come from China, but from the United States and some other countries, who are bent on politicizing the origin-tracing issue in an attempt to disrupt China's cooperation with WHO and discredit China. By blatantly questioning the independence and research conclusions of real scientists, they will not only cripple international cooperation on origin tracing, but also undercut global anti-epidemic efforts.

As for the lab hypothesis, experts on the mission all agreed that lab leaking is extremely unlikely, after visiting disease control centers in Hubei and Wuhan, the Wuhan Institute of Virology and various biosafety labs, and after having in-depth, frank and science-based exchanges with their Chinese peers from relevant research institutions. That said, if clues and evidence are found in other parts of the world, that will be quite another matter.

We hope that all parties concerned, including the United States, will adopt the same attitude of science-based cooperation as China, carry out origin-tracing cooperation with WHO, and invite WHO experts for origin-tracing study in their own countries.

I noticed that Russia recently expressed concern once again over the bio-military activities by the US on its own territory including at Fort Detrick and in other countries like Ukraine. This concern is actually shared by many other countries. As China has said repeatedly, relevant US activities are not transparent, safe or justified.

We may take Ukraine for example, which was mentioned by the Russian side. According to openly available reports, the US has set up 16 bio-labs in Ukraine alone. Why does it need to build so many labs all over the world? What activities hasthe US military been conducting in these labs and the base at Fort Detrick? Why does the US stand alone in opposing the establishment of a verification mechanism under the Biological Weapons Convention? Could it be that there are places within these labs and base where the US dare not allow in international verification?

We once again call on the US to adopt a responsible attitude, earnestly respond to international concerns, offer a full clarification on its bio-military activities at home and abroad, and stop obstructing the establishment of a verification mechanism under the Biological Weapons Convention.
...
https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2511_665403/t1867692.shtml

 

[Pathfinder]

Jamie Metzl
@JamieMetzl
?7h
Rather than addressing the substantive issues raised in our open letter on #COVID19 origins, the Chinese foreign ministry has chosen to attack me personally, accuse our experts group of smearing #China, & yet again obfuscate & deflect. Truly unfortunate...

 

[Pathfinder]

Blinken Faults China for Slow Response on Coronavirus

By Ken Bredemeier
April 11, 2021 01:59 PM

WASHINGTON - The U.S. secretary of state assailed China Sunday for its early, slow response to the threat of the coronavirus more than a year ago, saying it led to ?more egregious results? throughout the world than ?might otherwise? have been the case.

?I think China knows that in the early stages of COVID, it didn't do what it needed to do, which was to, in real time, give access to international experts, in real time to share information, in real time to provide real transparency,? Antony Blinken told NBC News?s ?Meet the Press? show. COVID-19 is the disease caused by the coronavirus.
...
Blinken said further investigation needs to be done on the origins of the virus in Wuhan, China ?so we fully understand what happened, in order to have the best shot possible preventing it from happening again. That's why we need to get to the bottom of this.?
...
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/blinken-faults-china-slow-response-coronavirus

 

[Pathfinder]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta on Why He Gives Weight to ?Informed? Theory That Covid Leaked From Wuhan Lab

By Aidan McLaughlin
Apr 8th, 2021, 1:40 pm
...
The most noteworthy revelation from those interviews, I thought, was former CDC Director Robert Redfield?s opinion that Covid-19 originated not from a wet market, but accidentally leaked from a lab in Wuhan. Redfield stressed that this was his opinion (but an informed one, given his expertise as a virologist). It nonetheless sparked controversy. China has vehemently denied that the virus could have leaked from a lab, and some in U.S. media have reflexively labeled the theory a conspiracy.

?He?s an experienced virologist. He was also head of the CDC at the time this was happening, which means that in addition to everything that we know, he had access to raw data and raw intelligence that was coming out of China,? Gupta told me. ?My point is that it?s a much more informed sort of thing for him to be saying than for anybody who may have expertise in virology, because he has a lot more knowledge and information that he has that maybe he can?t share, but is informing his opinion.?

Gupta said he offered Redfield opportunities to hedge his opinion, but that the former CDC director ?really was quite adamant that this was the origin of the virus.?

?There?s reason to suspect that this is the origin of the virus,? Gupta said, pointing out the flaws in the predominant theory that it came from a wet market.

?It?s a big virology lab right in Wuhan that happened to be studying bat coronaviruses. Just from an Occam?s razor standpoint, finding the simplest explanation, it would make sense,? he said, adding, ?We still don?t know for certain what the origin is.?
...

https://www.mediaite.com/podcasts/th...rom-wuhan-lab/

 

[Treyfish]

Redfield knows and now more are leaning that way

 

[Pathfinder]

CHINA / SOCIETY

New law fortifies China's legal shield on biosecurity labs against future infectious diseases

By Liu Caiyu
Published: Apr 15, 2021 09:54 PM

China inaugurated the Biosecurity Law on Thursday, which is expected to further fortify the legal shield for the establishment and safe operation of more bio labs as China attaches greater importance to biosecurity as part of national security.

The country's progress in establishing biosecurity could deal a firm blow to foreign attacks, like the conspiracy theory that "COVID-19's source came from a Wuhan lab," which the joint research by the WHO and China had concluded was "extremely unlikely."

Under the new Biosecurity Law, China will continue to build and approve more labs specializing in advanced pathogenic microbiology with a scrupulous and scientific manner, according to Deputy Minister of Science and Technology Xiang Libin.
...
The ministry has examined and approved the construction of three biosafety level-4 labs, or P4 labs, and 88 biosafety level-3 labs, or P3 labs, in China, he said.
...
The P4 lab of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which contributed a lot to China's early research into the coronavirus, has long been a target of US-led Western smears. A source close to the P4 lab spoke on condition of anonymity to the Global Times that those attacks are merely conspiracy theories backed by some US politicians.

Without authorization, no one can enter the laboratory, and no researcher can bring one piece of paper or one drop of water out of the laboratory, the source said.
...
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1221202.shtml

 

[Pathfinder]

"Without authorization, no one can enter the laboratory, and no researcher can bring one piece of paper or one drop of water out of the laboratory, the source said."

From the thread "Man Made H5N1 - Super Version"
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum...rum/118157-man-made-h5n1-super-version/page19

Lipsitch:
"Even in labs with the most stringent safety requirements, such as enclosed rubber ?space suits? to isolate researchers, accidents do happen. A single unprotected breath could infect a researcher, who might unknowingly spread the virus beyond the confines of the lab."

 

[sharon sanders]

People are humans so unfortunately accidents will happen eventually. We are not perfect. Also - lab mechanics can fail. It would be most important to anticipate a leak and create a great plan to remedy the situation, rather than denying it will, or ever, happened.

 

[Emily]

https://slate.com/podcasts/what-nex...vid-origin-story-seems-increasingly-plausible
The Lab Leak Theory

Nutty conspiracy, or plausible explanation of COVID?s source?
Episode Notes

How one theory about COVID-19?s origins went from the fringes to the mainstream?and why it just might be plausible.
Guest: Alina Chan, postdoctoral fellow at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard.
Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.
Podcast production by Mary Wilson, Davis Land, Danielle Hewitt, Elena Schwartz, and Carmel Delshad.

 

[sharon sanders]

bump this

 

[bertrand789]

Un equipo internacional liderado por el espa?ol Juan Carlos Izpis?a genera embriones quim?ricos humano-mono

https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/eq...briones-quimericos-humano-mono_1_7825533.html

 

[Mary Wilson]

The Origin of the Species: The Hunt for SARS-CoV-2

APRIL 14, 2021
By Marie Rosenthal, MS

No one likes scientific uncertainty?not scientists, not physicians, not politicians and certainly not the public. Everyone wants clear answers, especially about the origin of SARS-CoV-2. Given that there are millions of wild, domestic, farmed and laboratory animals in a staggering array of habitats in China, finding the animal reservoir and/or host is the proverbial needle-in-a-haystack search.

... Amid a politically charged backdrop, the recently released World Health Organization report about the origins of COVID-19 may have been disappointing for some people because it did not offer those clear, scientifically certain answers. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, MSc, PhD, the director-general of the WHO, said the report ?advances our understanding in important ways. It also raises further questions that will need to be addressed by further studies.?

Even though it was not definitive, the report explored several pathways that the virus could have entered the human population, rated them as far as likelihood of occurrence, and made recommendations for how best to pursue the answers, according to several experts who spoke with Infectious Disease Special Edition.

... ?It was always seen as something that was going to take months, if not years, to try to get the answer to the issue of the origins. And so, in that respect, this is the first stage. We wouldn?t have anticipated that it would be conclusive,? Dr. Watson told Infectious Disease Special Edition.

https://www.idse.net/Covid-19/Articl...paign=0414hunt

 

[Mary Wilson]

New Zealand statement on WHO-convened global study of origins of COVID-19

MINISTRY STATEMENTS & SPEECHES: 16 April 2021

New Zealand considers the recently released WHO-convened global study of origins of COVID-19 an important report, and a useful step in the work on the origins of COVID-19, in particular when human to human transfer may have first started to occur in a range of countries. We appreciate the WHO?s role in this critical work.

The report is valuable in highlighting areas where further technical work is required to make sure we can prepare better, as individual countries and as a global community, for any future pandemics.

The report has identified further areas for data collection and research into the origins of COVID-19, particularly as it applies to the original, and or continuing, presence of wildlife reservoirs of the virus. It has helpfully highlighted the critical importance of the One Health approach between human health and animal health regulatory agencies, shining a spotlight on an area that deserves greater attention.

It is clear many questions remain unanswered as to exactly how the virus was first introduced into the human population.

... New Zealand supports the WHO?s proposals for further work, including future collaborative studies and comprehensive data sharing between all members on the endemic presence of strains of the virus in susceptible wildlife species. We share the regrets of others at the limitations around access to early samples and related data. We support WHO Director-General Tedros?s expectation that future collaborative studies include more timely and comprehensive data sharing.

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/media-a...convened-global-study-of-origins-of-covid-19/