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Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning.... - Ja

s'il n'avait fait que cette erreur ?

- la premi?re le financement

- la seconde la voie intramusculaire

- la troisi?me, ne pas reconnaitre que la bonne solution c'est avec et pas contre ...
 
Sharon I do not normally bother to look at media articles, Chinese or Western, as they seldom add anything useful to the debate but the article you posted by CTGN seem excellent and based on the science. I do not understand why you selected to highlight some parts of it as it is mainly quotes form scientists outside China calling for more research into exactly what else is out there waiting to start the next zoonotic emergence which is laudable. There has been very little research outside China and a lot more is needed. Kudos to the NIH, EcoHealth and WIV for finding what we do know about bat viruses in China.
In this paper in Nature article https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21240-1 which did look for virus in bats in Thailand they found a high prevalence of samples with RacCS203 being the representative sample.
The graphic below shows the range of the various Rhinolophus species and the collection locations of some the most relevant samples sequenced.
Rhinolophus.JPG - Click image for larger version Name: Rhinolophus.JPG Views: 1 Size: 85.1 KB ID: 911076

The paper also looked at binding affinity to human ACE2 receptors and the highest affinity was to GX-PL5 a sample from a Malayan Pangolin collected by Guangxi customs anti smuggling agents. GX-PL5 bound even more strongly than SARS-CoV-2 which was stronger than SARS1 with RaTG13 being the weakest of the four. Guangxi's boarder is with Vietnam but where the pangolin originally came from is unknown.

Re.
And I made the comment about the trade wars/spat etc. because if China is willing to engage strongly with some of the world's most prominent countries, think of what they might be willing to do to poor, destitute ones in their own region.
Click to expand...
The same can be said of any powerful nation and would certainly apply to the US's history with Cuba and Venezuela. Once apon a time the UK was a powerful nation and our history certainly does not bear close examination.
 
I try to read as many China state run media as possible because it is not really "media". It is government press releases. It shows you their direction, among other things. Also, as I have told you many times - I do not apologize for the US. In fact, the US is an example of what China is probably more than willing to do in its own region to control any investigation into the origin of this pandemic. All it takes is some cash.
 
Humans, Not Animals, Likely Took the COVID Virus to Wuhan, Contrary to China's Claims

BY ROWAN JACOBSEN ON 3/25/21 AT 9:29 PM EDT
...
There is broad agreement that the coronavirus is part of a lineage of viruses found in horseshoe bats in South China. The mystery centers on how the virus came to cause an outbreak in Wuhan, a thousand miles away, without leaving any trace of its journey.
...
The WIV had spent years identifying the caves where the scary ones lurked. Over a four-year period, it visited one cave in Yunnan repeatedly and brought back 1,322 samples, including at least nine of SARS-CoV-2's close relatives. Overall, the effort brought more than 15,000 bat samples back to Wuhan, which included more than 400 coronaviruses new to science and at least 50 of the variety that can infect people. And we know almost nothing about this cache.

We do know, from online photos, videos, and accounts, that the virus hunters didn't always wear adequate protective gear, and were bitten by bats with some regularity. And this is what they did while the cameras were rolling.
...
In other words, you could not build a better conduit for channeling viruses straight from rural South China to downtown Wuhan. Whether or not the virus made it into the lab and later escaped, this was its best transport option. This viral monorail ran between a number of caves in South China and the WIV multiple times every year, with a different mix of students and scientists.

And it wasn't limited to the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The Wuhan CDC also extensively collected bat samples and has been accused of inadequate precautions. One Wuhan University post about a sampling trip to Yunnan in the summer of 2019 (a few months before the pandemic started) shows researchers entering bat caves in street clothes and handling bats with their bare hands, a shocking violation of safety protocols. The bats collected included horseshoe bats, the kind most likely to carry SARS-like diseases. If you're looking for potential carriers, there's no need for hypothetical frozen ferret badgers. Start with the motherlode of cases right in the scientific record.
...

https://www.newsweek.com/humans-not...id-virus-wuhan-contrary-chinas-claims-1578861
 
Nous savons, en ce lieu,? tous, les capacit?s scientifiques des chinois. Leur silence donne la bonne image de ce pays ??

?J'ai ?voqu?, en tout d?but de crise, de graves troubles du management chino am?ricain, le monde se portera mieux si ces deux super puissances se montrent ? la hauteur des enjeux ...?

La science mal manag?e est un risque impossible . Les erreurs peuvent exister, mais ne doivent plus comme cela a ?t? le cas, dans ce dossier, ?tre institutionalis?es et prot?g?es de mauvaise mani?re, par ces deux super puissances.


Leur pr?sident respectif, en tout d?but de crise , ont pris de vraies mesures l'un et l'autre. Apr?s un an et vu le dossier d'expertise ou retour d'exp?rience, de l'O.M.S ? produire, ils peuvent, en se taisant et en imposant le silence, tuer la respectibilit? de l'O.M.S , ou ?
 
I doubt it. There will be investigations later and no one wants to be blamed for anything. It will be up to juries, judges, panels, etc. to decide.
 
The photos of students handling bats with no PPE should not be a great surprise to anybody as this is the norm. EcoHealth teams use extensive PPE but they are the exception as they are specifically going out to look at sites likely to harbour candidates for the next pandemic. This site, as it name applies, was set up to look at flu initially as H5N1 was a concern at the time. There have been three flu pandemics in my life time but no corona virus pandemics until this one so flu, along with virus-X, has always been the primary focus of zoonosis research. I am sure I would have no difficulty in finding thousands of photos of people handling birds or working with pigs not wearing PPE including those netting wild aquatic birds to ring them or taking samples for flu strain monitoring. The same would be true of people with horses (hendra), camels (MERS) or collecting fruit (ebola). Short of banning people from eating pigs (nipha & flu), chickens, ducks or keeping pigeons, horses etc or hunting there is no way of stopping zoonotic diseases from emerging all we can do is research the prevalence of such disease in their host ranges and try and mitigate the most dangerous activities at the human-animal interface. This pandemic happened to be of bat origin but it could of been from anyone of a dozen different viruses families and hundreds of different host species so a little perspective is required. The most dangerous hosts IMO are other mammals (particularly rodents & mustelids), ticks, insects along with birds for flu & west nile.
 
Sharon, I still don't understand why this is mudslinging:

"But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses."

That is journalism - should we throw all journalism under a bus? It was not a crime for NIAID to fund research in Wuhan under Fauci's leadership as far as I know, no matter how forum members here feel about GOF research - so no mud involved. If Newsweek is the only source known to forum members, that could be point can be made without accusations of mudslinging.
 
DeepL transaltion of Bertrand:
"Science badly managed is an impossible risk. Mistakes can exist, but they should not be institutionalized and protected in a bad way, as it was the case in this file, by these two super powers."

I'm afraid this is the case. That means impetus for better science management in this niche will come from other countries and citizens of those superpowers, rather than the governments of those superpowers. The onus is especially on US citizens since we still have the freedom to question authority.
 
Scott Gottlieb, MD, 23rd commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA):


https://youtu.be/tGiZeFWUodI?t=822
Face The Nation: Letlow, Palmer, Gottlieb, Capuano
17,824 views
?Mar 28, 2021

?It looks like the WHO report was an attempt to try to support the China narrative, the Chinese narrative around this origin?. You know, the lab leak theory doesn?t seem like a plausible theory unless you aggregate the biggest collection of coronaviruses and put them in a lab, a minimum security lab, in the middle of a densely populated center and experiment on animals which is exactly what the Wuhan Institute of Virology did. They were using these viruses in a BSL-2 lab and we now know were infecting animals. So that creates the opportunity for a lab leak. It might not be the most likely scenario on how this virus got out, but it has to remain a scenario and I think at the end of the day, we?re never going to be able to fully discharge that possibility. What we?re going to have here is a battle of competing narratives.?
 
Several scientists said Redfield's theory did not pass the scientific smell test.

"There's a fundamental difference between having a theory and testing a theory and showing evidence that your theory is a fact," said Paul Duprex, a virologist and director of the center for vaccine research at the University of Pittsburgh.

Duprex, who runs a biosafety level three lab, which handles dangerous pathogens, said he would never rule out the possibility of human error.

"No open-minded scientist will ever say to you, or should say to you, 'this is impossible," he said. "What a good scientist will say is, 'Where is the evidence?'"

Duprex said he has seen no evidence to suggest the virus first emerged from a lab.

The World Health Organization, which has been investigating the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, considers the lab-leak scenario so unlikely it discontinued research in that hypothesis.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/...ed-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/
 
In contrast, our analysis detects evidence for significant positive episodic diversifying selection acting at the base of the bat virus lineage SARS-CoV-2 emerged from, accompanied by an adaptive depletion in CpG composition presumed to be linked to the action of antiviral mechanisms in these ancestral bat hosts. The closest bat virus to SARS-CoV-2, RmYN02 (sharing an ancestor about 1976), is a recombinant with a structure that includes differential CpG content in Spike; clear evidence of coinfection and evolution in bats without involvement of other species. While an undiscovered ?facilitating? intermediate species cannot be discounted, collectively, our results support the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 being capable of efficient human?human transmission as a consequence of its adaptive evolutionary history in bats, not humans, which created a relatively generalist virus.

Due to the high diversity and generalist nature of these Sarbecoviruses, a future spillover, potentially coupled with a recombination event with SARS-CoV-2, is possible, and such a ?SARS-CoV-3? emergence could be sufficiently divergent to evade either natural or vaccine-acquired immunity, as demonstrated for SARS-CoV-1 versus SARS-CoV-2. We must therefore dramatically ramp up surveillance for Sarbecoviruses at the human?animal interface [15] and monitor carefully for future SARS-CoV emergence in the human population

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001115
 
It's not just 'Redfield's theory'. He's just a high profile virologist who gave an opinion. (And the GOF fanboys seem to be out in full force smearing him for that.)
 
Just opinions so far, even Fauci said so today.

https://youtu.be/cZF5jRqmXhI?t=523
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-anthony-fauci-on-face-the-nation-march-28-2021/
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is your opinion on how COVID became so well adapted to humans?

DR. FAUCI: You know, MARGARET, that's an argument that goes back and forth. A- a very plausible explanation for this is that this virus jumped from an animal host, a bat to maybe an intermediate host and then to a human. And we didn't see it, we being at first the Chinese. And it was under the radar screen. And we know that infections, many of them, are without symptoms. So it's entirely conceivable that it was spreading considerably for weeks, if not months, before we recognized it at the end of December, giving it plenty of time to adapt to a human. And that would really be completely consistent with just jumping species in the wild. The other theory that people have is that somehow it did that in a lab and it accidentally escaped. I mean, those are just varying opinions. I think the most likely one that in nature, in the wild, it adapted itself.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. And- and as you're acknowledging there, no evidence. We're still looking at it. We'll continue to- following it. Dr. Fauci, thank you for your opinion and your perspective.
 
Les Chinois doivent d?velopper leur d?marche ONE HEALTH ? leur mani?re. Ce qui sous entend que le corps de v?t?rinaire chinois doit avoir le droit d'exister et de s'exprimer.

Qu'il y est des coronavirus chez les rats des bambous, et alors.

Mais bon, il faudrait faire, ce qui se doit , pour ne pas avoir un ange mal?fique, trop souvent ...


Un petit d?tail :
- ils prescrivent quoi ,en Cote d'Ivoire , les m?decins chinois ?
- c'est quoi ce traffic de produits vendus , hors de prix , avec la d?nomination m?decine chinoise ?

la m?decine chinoise ayant ?t? reconnue par l'O.M.S , tout ce bordel est signal? ou ?
 
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