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Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas - Died

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Hi Dani,

I work in health care, as a general statement, yes, force is used very often in healthcare where I am, and by often I mean several as in a dozen or more times per day. We have a judge available 24/7 for any paperwork we need.

Thank you. Have you had to impose quarantine? What happens if people break it?
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Fear is absolutely normal.

Unfounded fear created by speculation and worse case scenario, non-factual information is not.

Education and information is key to reducing anxiety and resolving fear. Both of which the CDC is trying very hard to provide to the best of their ability based on how they have been trained to respond to public concern.

Everything the CDC reports continues to come under fire as not being trustworthy.

Who is the trustworthy source, then?

Who should the public look to for information and guidance? The media like CNN and FoxNews? Flutrackers?

What has the CDC said in this event that is actually false, inaccurate, or a downright lie? Where is the demonstration that they are spinning lies out of this event? Not what we "feel" is false. Not what we "think" is false. List the bona fide, factual falsities.

If I were to promote such statements about the integrity and capability of a whole system which could potentially initiate panic and fear, I would be sure:

1. to know what facts exist that demonstrate the Public Health System is failing to respond to Ebola.

2. to see factual medical studies that demonstrate the Ebola virus behaves different than what the CDC says it does

3. to document how many studies exist out there that demonstrate a person incubating Ebola is infective before they have "symptoms"

I have not seen nor do I know any of these speculative comments are fact and therefore, I choose to support the current response.

I encourage others to do the same because they need support and not doubt during this crisis.

Of course, my original point is still: The hospital missing the case the first time is not an accurate demonstration of the US Public Health response to this event.


I think the irritation with the CDC is the steadfast refusal to provide the itineraries of confirmed cases of coronavirus MERS and now, ebola.

This action sows mistrust. And it is pointless because well funded media types obtain the info anyway. The governments of Canada and England disclose complete itineraries, why not the US gov?

In a emerging situation people want to know what is going on beyond - "Hey some person has XYZ and he/she is isolated at this hospital in this city. But don't worry because we have the situation under control."

That is what they say every time. I suggest the following:

Date: October 1, 2014

1) A male patient, 45, was brought in via ambulance to Feel Better Hospital in Chicago at 8:00 pm last night (Sept. 30) with severe diarrhea, nausea, cough/breathing problems, and a very high fever. After evaluation, and pending any tests, he was isolated, as a precaution since he has recent travel history to China.

2) Last night he tested positive for flu A and we flew a sample to the CDC lab in Atlanta for further evaluation. Late this afternoon the preliminary result showed positive for H7N9.

3) We are running confirming tests but at this time he is being treated for H7N9.

4) We are conducting testing on 4 family members and beginning our contact tracing procedures. We are not sure about his symptoms, if any, on the airplanes/airports so we are not sure about the numbers of contacts there are.

5) This person took FlyLikeABird Airlines flight 452 from Bejing on September 28 to Honolulu, he changed planes and continued his flight to Chicago on flight 565 on the same airline. He landed at terminal 45 and used the bathroom after he began to feel sick, non-specific, on the flight. He picked up his luggage, met family members who then took him home.

6) The next day on Sept 29, he developed a cough, but was well enough to go shopping with his family to the Whole Paycheck on 421 Smith St at approximately 2 pm. He was there for about an hour.

6) When he awoke on Sept 30 he had a high fever. At 10 am, he went to Quickie Med Clinic at 643 Central Street where the doctor there called an ambulance to take him to the hospital.

7) If you were in any of these places around the time that the victim was, and you have a temperature and/or a cough/cold symptoms, please consult your medical practitioner. Some of you will be contacted by the local public health departments as primary and secondary contacts of this patient.

8) We are working to ..... CDC web page on this is here..... please call the Chicago health dept if you need any more information at this number.....
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

We have not imposed quarantine for a disease that I am aware of. But there have been many, many instances where PD and paramedics have had to deal with violent psychs. They go in together and use force and restraints. I'm sure the situation would be similar, the contacts will be given a choice, follow the rules or you will be placed somewhere and made to follow the rules.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

I've served time on our local board of health and have been involved in all hazards disaster preparedness in our commonwealth state (that requires each town no matter how small to be prepared to stand up a shelter).

There are definitely different ecosystems re hospital standing up to surge for a disaster and how the community and public safety does. The interface between first responders + community and the hospital is regulated via hospital administration. This is good because this specialization works. It also means less pre-disaster contact (especially here w our town boards of health). In terms of outbreaks the local authority is the public health people. Because each state can be different it might be very different where you are. In a big city like Boston it would feel less like a commonwealth. If the outbreak started in our small town w a board of health but no professional Health Director things would be different.
 
Re: CDC Ebola Twitter Chat Now (4EST)

Re: CDC Ebola Twitter Chat Now (4EST)

#CDCchat
Follow @CDC

CDC has confirmed 1st case of #Ebola in the U.S. Experts to answer questions on Twitter live Oct 2, 4-5PM ET #CDCchat http://ow.ly/Cdqof
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

We have not imposed quarantine for a disease that I am aware of. But there have been many, many instances where PD and paramedics have had to deal with violent psychs. They go in together and use force and restraints. I'm sure the situation would be similar, the contacts will be given a choice, follow the rules or you will be placed somewhere and made to follow the rules.

Last time was in 2007, there's quite the history for quarantine in the US. ThinK Typhoid Mary but there have been others.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Last time was in 2007, there's quite the history for quarantine in the US. ThinK Typhoid Mary but there have been others.

I was referring to my local area. But good info to know, thank you!:)
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

......In a emerging situation people want to know what is going on beyond - "Hey some person has XYZ and he/she is isolated at this hospital in this city. But don't worry because we have the situation under control."
.....

So true Sharon.

What constitutes "close person contact" is a terribly general statement. As Chris said, this patient was merely doing the decent thing - helping a sick person get to the hospital. Evidently the closest contact was lifting her legs when she couldn't walk.

Rather than a pat on the head with reassuances everything will be okay, the public needs more information about what they can do - handwashing, when to wear mask/gloves if you're caring for a sick person, etc.

Do we feel safe just knowing we have a police force??? No - we also lock our doors, sometimes carry pepper spray, & other pro-active behaviors. All this, knowing that we're normally not at risk.

.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

So true Sharon.

What constitutes "close person contact" is a terribly general statement. As Chris said, this patient was merely doing the decent thing - helping a sick person get to the hospital. Evidently the closest contact was lifting her legs when she couldn't walk.


.

A feverish, sweaty, convulsing possibly bloody body inside a crowded cab would be heaven for a virus looking for a host.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

A feverish, sweaty, convulsing possibly bloody body inside a crowded cab would be heaven for a virus looking for a host.

Regarding this post about health workers being "hesitant":

Delay in Dallas Ebola Cleanup as Workers Balk at Task

...
The Texas health commissioner, Dr. David Lakey, told reporters during an afternoon news conference that health workers should have moved more swiftly to clean the apartment but that they had had trouble finding an outside medical team to do the work. They encountered ?a little bit of hesitancy,? he said.

?We are arranging for that apartment to be cleaned,? he said. ?The house conditions need to be improved.?
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html?_r=0


Why would anyone be hesitant? According to Goodman the hospital could just provide waterproof gowns, gloves, surgical masks, eye and shoe protection.


Head-to-toe coverage for doctors treating the patient is not required, Goodman said. Doctors will be wearing two waterproof gowns, gloves, surgical masks, eye protection and shoe protection.

It does not require a highly specialized unit to care for someone with Ebola, Goodman said. But in the event that a negative pressure unit is required, the hospital has that capability.
http://time.com/3452612/dallas-ems-crew-ebola-ambulance/
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Regarding this post about health workers being "hesitant":




Why would anyone be hesitant? According to Goodman the hospital could just provide waterproof gowns, gloves, surgical masks, eye and shoe protection.

Given the media coverage and the many public comments, I will be surprised if they ever get someone to do it.

Not a single mention of the science behind Ebola. The studies that have been done innumerable times on Ebola situations, cleanup, containment, etc... in Africa before this event.

The uncontrolled fear that they will catch Ebola, while using verified, tried and true measures to prevent infections, still exists.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Vibrant62 posted some great info in the news thread that the virus won't survive for very long on surfaces. My questions are:

1. If this is the case then why are health authorities in Texas having a hard time finding workers to go clean Mr. Duncan's apartment? having a hard time finding workers to go in and clean the apartment.

2. Why are workers/volunteers disinfecting homes in remote communities in Liberia?

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=548711&postcount=111
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Vibrant62 posted some great info in the news thread that the virus won't survive for very long on surfaces. My questions are:

1. If this is the case then why are health authorities in Texas having a hard time finding workers to go clean Mr. Duncan's apartment? having a hard time finding workers to go in and clean the apartment.

2. Why are workers/volunteers disinfecting homes in remote communities in Liberia?

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=548711&postcount=111

Exactly - there is the science. It is factual.
Your answers are in the social perception of risk, not the reality.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

I think Liberia, being poor, they don't have carpet, upholstered couches etc. I think they go in and spray everything with chlorine. Here it requires care to not ruin carpet, couches, etc. If they don't do a good job, they could be sued, if they ruin belongings they could be sued. Though if it were me, I would have a bonfire in the parking lot and burn it all.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Exactly - there is the science. It is factual.
Your answers are in the social perception of risk, not the reality.

I get what you are saying about perception. However, speaking strictly about disinfecting homes in Liberia - it just doesn't make sense. If the virus does not pose any threat after a particular time period then why not use the resources in other more efficient ways?

Not to mention many villagers are fearful of those who appear in full gear to "clean up".
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

I get what you are saying about perception. However, speaking strictly about disinfecting homes in Liberia - it just doesn't make sense. If the virus does not pose any threat after a particular time period then why not use the resources in other more efficient ways?

Not to mention many villagers are fearful of those who appear in full gear to "clean up".

Many of the people are dying in their homes.
And - about 50% of them hemorrhage
And - at later stages, the vomiting and diarrhea are profuse
And - many of the family members that were living there with the Ebola victim are either dead or moved to an isolation tent/hospital.

I imagine this is what the goal would be for the CDC, but how would you disinfect the apartment while the people - who are quarantined, not isolated, are still living there?

This is the first time they have had to respond to this domestically and there are many agencies working together to figure out the answers.

Another post indicates they will be moving the family. I am surprised they haven't moved them already - for their safety from a fearful public.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Social perception is just as real and any biological model of an organism. We believe and behave towards what we perceive. That is normal, that is real. What is unreal is to expect that other people ignore what they see and respond to what we tell them to see. When people are empowered rather than managed, then we will see more rational behaviors.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

This post by Pathfinder indicates to me that the US is not ready for a deadly outbreak of any kind. The logistics of small/singular quarantines are going to be impossible.

1. How do you keep these people supplied with basic necessities?
2. What about employment? Many people will lose their jobs unless FMLA will cover quarantine -- does it? I honestly don't know.
3. What about income? How will those quarantined in Mr. Duncan's apartment pay for the month's rent when they are working? Hopefully they have a savings account, but many people live paycheck-to-paycheck.


http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=548742&postcount=122
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Many of the people are dying in their homes.
And - about 50% of them hemorrhage
And - at later stages, the vomiting and diarrhea are profuse
And - many of the family members that were living there with the Ebola victim are either dead or moved to an isolation tent/hospital.

I imagine this is what the goal would be for the CDC, but how would you disinfect the apartment while the people - who are quarantined, not isolated, are still living there?

This is the first time they have had to respond to this domestically and there are many agencies working together to figure out the answers.

Another post indicates they will be moving the family. I am surprised they haven't moved them already - for their safety from a fearful public.


Just that family? What about the entire apartment complex? I'd have to imagine that the complex will likely encounter financial loss. The "reviews" on Google are absolutely awful/hateful/disgusting.
 
Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Re: Discussion - 1st ebola case in US (excluding health care worker transfer) Dallas, Texas

Social perception is just as real and any biological model of an organism. We believe and behave towards what we perceive. That is normal, that is real. What is unreal is to expect that other people ignore what they see and respond to what we tell them to see. When people are empowered rather than managed, then we will see more rational behaviors.

Fear should be recognized.
Fear is normal.
Fear is mitigated by education and information. Fear looks for answers to the fear. Fear wants to know what the fear is and how to remove the threat. Fear promotes positive change when it is faced, studied, examined.
Fear based on belief is irrational.
If social perception creates a belief - it is not as easy to show them what is real - they will only see what they believe.
 
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