• FluTrackers.com Inc. does not provide medical advice. Information on this web site is collected from various internet resources, and the FluTrackers board of directors makes no warranty to the safety, efficacy, correctness or completeness of the information posted on this site by any author or poster. The information collated here is for instructional and/or discussion purposes only and is NOT intended to diagnose or treat any disease, illness, or other medical condition. Every individual reader or poster should seek advice from their personal physician/healthcare practitioner before considering or using any interventions that are discussed on this website. By continuing to access this website you agree to consult your personal physican before using any interventions posted on this website, and you agree to hold harmless FluTrackers.com Inc., the board of directors, the members, and all authors and posters for any effects from use of any medication, supplement, vitamin or other substance, device, intervention, etc. mentioned in posts on this website, or other internet venues referenced in posts on this website.
  • We are not asking for any donations. Do not donate to any entity who says they are raising funds for us.

Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Sally Furniss

Well-known member
Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers
Scientists say cases contained, but Indonesia fertile ground for pandemic



Fred Francis
Correspondent
KUBU SEMBILANG, Indonesia - Driving into this hardscrabble mountain village past thick orange groves and tall corn close to harvest, Kubu Sembilang does not appear to be the place where a worldwide pandemic of bird flu will begin.

But that is a still a very real fear because despite the best efforts by field epidemiologists from the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Indonesian government, the source of avian flu in this hamlet has not been discovered.

Befuddling cluster
The cluster began with one extended family living side-by-side in three homes and so far has killed seven of the eight members who came down with the virus.

In fact, it is the largest cluster ever of H5N1 bird flu virus cases. It is so large and so virulent that health officials have been extremely worried.

Clusters are looked on with far more suspicion than isolated infections because they raise the possibility the virus might have mutated to transmit efficiently among humans, potentially sparking a pandemic and killing millions of people.

Yet, after two weeks of extensive field work and laboratory testing, the WHO has not been able to determine the source of the virus. Given the rural area where the cluster occurred, where farming and livestock are the main source of food, it?s easy to see how difficult it would be to isolate the virus.

Chickens and pigs roaming unchecked
So far, sick poultry have been the source of bird flu infection for most human cases worldwide and it is known that pigs are also susceptible to the virus.

But, when this reporter visited the village on Tuesday, it was impossible to count the number of chickens roaming free or the number of pigs walking and defecating where children played. Many large animals were tethered near entrances to homes. Put simply, disease could lurk anywhere.

Dr. Steven Bjorge, the WHO team leader who has been working in the village of Kubu Sembilang, said in Jakarta on Wednesday that it would be impossible to check all the animals in that village.

Bjorge added, "If there was a sick chicken, these villagers would cook and eat it. We may never know the source."

When local villagers were asked about the presumption that they would eat sick chickens, they confirmed that they probably would.

Also, despite published reports that large teams of field epidemiologists have hunkered down in the villages for the past two weeks, people in the village say the investigators have only been there a half a dozen times for one or two hours. A WHO official confirmed that, saying the people are suspicious and hostile.

Outbreak ?contained?
But there is some good news. Bloodwork from two of the victims has proven to scientists that so far there has been no mutation of the virus that would result in a pandemic. That?s not yet conclusive, but it?s a trend that Bjorge said he expects to continue.

? Facts not fears
Questions and answers about avian influenza

"We very much believe we have this outbreak contained. And we are virtually certain that although this appears to be the much talked about human to human transmission, it is not a mutation of H5N1," said Bjorge.

He explained that although it is rare, it appears that this one family was in extremely close and prolonged contact with those who were coughing and that, he believes, is how the flu was transmitted.

To back up the claim that this cluster outbreak is very likely contained, Bjorge said that officials have tracked all of the unprotected health officials at four nearby hospitals over the past three weeks and have not turned up anyone with symptoms.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12953295/
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

To back up the claim that this cluster outbreak is very likely contained, Bjorge said that officials have tracked all of the unprotected health officials at four nearby hospitals over the past three weeks and have not turned up anyone with symptoms.

That doesn't mean that it is contained.

That means that the health officials at the nearby hospitals are not sick, but that does not mean that this outbreak is contained.

Considering the fact that some of the people in village have fled, it is not conatined.

Considering the fact that the wife of the latest victim was 'holding onto her husbad when he died', it is not contained.

Considering the fact that they are monitoring 33 people who came into contact and do not know everyone that they came into contact with, it is not contained.

They are just trying to put a happy face on the situation when they really have no clue whether or not it is contained.

They do not know, and they will not know for another week or two if it is contained.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

DB said:
To back up the claim that this cluster outbreak is very likely contained, Bjorge said that officials have tracked all of the unprotected health officials at four nearby hospitals over the past three weeks and have not turned up anyone with symptoms.



That doesn't mean that it is contained.

That means that the health officials at the nearby hospitals are not sick, but that does not mean that this outbreak is contained.

Considering the fact that some of the people in village have fled, it is not conatined.

Considering the fact that the wife of the latest victim was 'holding onto her husbad when he died', it is not contained.

Considering the fact that they are monitoring 33 people who came into contact and do not know everyone that they came into contact with, it is not contained.

They are just trying to put a happy face on the situation when they really have no clue whether or not it is contained.

They do not know, and they will not know for another week or two if it is contained.

And neither will we. Quite frankly, with the thoroughness with which Flutracker forum participants scan foreign news sources, we may very well know if is not contained before they do.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

contained?

(snip -edit) You have a perfect storm in Indonesia and nobody will be able to stop it.

WHO doesn't even want to ring the alarm bell to rattle the financial markets.
Their officials still claim there is no fire unless they can see the flame. H5N1 can't ask for a better place to sharpen it's blade.



(Please, no bashing.)
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

WHO is doing the best they can under trying circumstances.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Ok let me pose a question here. If we (as a group) were in charge of the world health and saw all this happening, would be bring out every bit of news immediately? If we cry wolf too soon, we'd be laughed at next time. If we see a truely dangerous situation and know it might cause collapse of economy, at what point would we bring out the news a pandemic is on it's way? Seriously, what would be the best moment? Is there a best moment at all? Do we think the general public will be able to take all this in? Look at how people behaved after Katrina when they well knew the rest of the world kept functioning. Law and order still existed in the rest of the world but not in NO. Looting, killing and raping was out there within one day only.
So if we tell people there is something on a global scale coming, with downfall of structured society, do we want to tell that at all?
Not all of us live in western society and they can estimate how tribal rules will apply to a pandemic scenario. In my opinion the WHO is doing all they can and I'm also convinced they don't tell us everything. If we were in their shoes we'd probably do the same.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Rever at Effect Measure got it about right yesterday in his post 'Clusters, sequences, trust'. The WHO aren't the enemy, but they are making enemies.

If the WHO (and governments) want to minimise 'panic', they need to keep the public fully informed. They have a long way to go before 'normal' people sit up and take notice IMHO. (Have you tried to suggest that a friend start preparing recently? Bloody hard work in my experience!) Why? Because for every message that the sky is about to fall, there's a nice reassurance from the WHO that it's not.

Now I'm not one who thinks we need to over-dramatize every development, but having to second guess the WHO is very tiresome. The worst part is that it doesn't have to be this way. The WHO could build trust and respect if it rose above political considerations and dealt only in facts. Release the data collected ASAP, create timelines for clusters, make it obvious to the world exactly where we are and where we might go. Tell it like it is.

Here's an example: This situation report was published on 19 May http://www.who.int/csr/don/2006_05_19/en/index.html
Could they publish less information if they tried? Where's the update on the update?

Of course nobody wants to pull the trigger too early, but would it really be any worse than doing so too late? And if phase 4 hasn't been met in Indonesia as we're told, would they care to tell us what it will take? Both sets of words for phase 4 appear to have been met, so what's a person to think?
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Nobody wants to bash WHO.

By not raising the alert, the pandemic strain will be carried by a few of the thousands of nannies, maids to places like HK, middle east. Countries can still raise their guards before they find out how serious situation is in Indonesia from their local infected population. An early warning on SARS could have saved a few lives in Toronto.


How can any doctor or PhD claim the situation is well contained when deadly clusters are surfacing around the globe? Keeping the casino in Wall St. booming seems to be their priority here. Am I bashing again?

Time to call in CSI yet?
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Delta it isn't the way I would go about it. I agree that if you send out the message in the wrong way it could cause pandemonium, on the other hand not sending any message out until pandemic is present will kill millions of people. Let me break this down to the bare bones.

Poultry markets crash. They have already started to crash so what is the point? Education will stop some of the panic but people are going to stop buying chicken, turkey and duck anyway.

People will panic and behave inappropriately. If you think there will be panic now when police, the National Guards, military, and other emergency personnel are still healthy and able to intervene, then imagine what it will be like when at least 30% of the force is out sick and cannot respond?

There will be runs on food. You will not see anything like the run that will happen if bf is at the door and there is no food left and our just in time delivery systems are interrupted.

It is time to plant crops in the Northern Hemisphere. We should not leave any arable land idle this year and the next if the pandemic is still holding off then. A bonus should be given to those who plant crops that can be stored for later use. Rice, beans, corn, wheat and other grain crops are the most obvious choices.

We should increase production of those making freeze dried foods, with a guarantee by the government to purchase all extra stock. It isn't like the stuff is going to go bad. MRE's in the US should be stockpiled. Again, it isn't like the food is going to spoil if they aren't eaten in the next 12 months.

I'd like to add a couple of other thoughts here. It takes time to build up stores, and it takes money to prepare. It also takes time for people to adjust their thinking. If you don't give people time but rather spring it on them, you are going to end up with a very unhappy citizen. I picture riots. I picture melees in supermarket parking lots. And I picture some citizens with vengeance in mind going after the nearest elected official to get even. Who cares if some scoff at the WHO, world heath leaders and governments? If it means more people are prepared for the eventual disaster, then scoffers will be jeered and organizations will be congratulated.

What needs to be done is every single official organization needs to come out with the same message. Pandemic flu is a real possibility. It has happened in the past, and it will happen in the future. Right now everything is poised for H5N1 to be the next plague. We are all fervently praying all of us have time to prepare ourselves, our nation and other nations. Here is what you need to do to be a good citizen and prepare yourselves, and families, and your communities.

I have one final thought. You say that not all governments have the ability to prepare their people. I am forced to agree. But, the more time dedicated to preparing, will see more of those without the wherewithal to prep themselves covered in part by those who can. Wait and no one is ready regardless of living in a first, second, third or fourth world nation. I'm all for saving as many as possible, suggesting that some won't ever be ready is an invalid argument because therefore none of us should then be prepared.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Shannon said:
I'm all for saving as many as possible, suggesting that some won't ever be ready is an invalid argument because therefore none of us should then be prepared.

You've just proved you're an honest and sincere person. In an ideal world it would be as you described. Our world is neither ideal nor fair at all. If politicians had an ounce of your intergrity we'd all be way better of.
Since I have little faith in economy, politics and large organisations that are funded by taxmoney (even globally funded) I prep in silence and hope many more do so.
Hoping ofcourse my prepping will never be necessary.
 
Re: Bird flu clusters befuddle doctors and villagers

Shannon,
You hit the nail on the head.

We are at the mercy of nature no matter what we hope for from our elected officials. Save yourself and your family girl and don't fret about the fools that think they can eat money. Buy fish hooks, ammo, and seeds!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top