Are vaccines immoral?

[yaba]

This may provoke outrage I know But I clearly think that the route cause of our economic and environmental problems at the moment are caused by overpopulation. Last summer when economies were booming and oil and other commodities reached all time highs before the bust, the entire system had reached its mathematical limit ie too many people chasing too few resources
and a systemn based on never ending growth that could not be achieved with finite resources running out.
I do belive that nature like it would with any other species that reproduces too much is trying to knock our numbers down a bit which is what is needed unless we can find another planet.
It will happen one way or another and the choices really are
disease
war
famine
personally i'd rather have a realtively easy death from flu than war, famine
or another more horrible disease like ebola or aids
I know it sounds callous but I think a flu pandemic which kills a billion or so
would be a good thing for the ones that survive
otherwise we will all suffer much much more

 

[St Michael]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

Remember, verbal engineering always precedes social engineering.

Poverty = too many people for the resources of a given geographic area.

Humanitarian ideals demand we assist our brothers and sisters living in poverty. All monotheistic religions demand we assist our brothers and sisters living in poverty.

Overpopulation = too many people for the resources of a given geographic area.

"Overpopulation" is simply a new word for "poverty." But when poverty is renamed "overpopulation," then the western world can blame poverty on the victims of poverty, and excuse themselves from the universal duty of mankind to alleviate the suffering of poverty.

Telling the poverty stricken that its their own fault, that if they would just stop having families, is not an answer to poverty. Renaming poverty as overpopulation is not humanitarian, it is an act of demographic warfare by the wealthy against the poor.

 

[yaba]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

thats an excellent answer
very true indeed

 

[Farmer]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

Remember, verbal engineering always precedes social engineering.

Poverty = too many people for the resources of a given geographic area.

Humanitarian ideals demand we assist our brothers and sisters living in poverty. All monotheistic religions demand we assist our brothers and sisters living in poverty.

Overpopulation = too many people for the resources of a given geographic area.

"Overpopulation" is simply a new word for "poverty." But when poverty is renamed "overpopulation," then the western world can blame poverty on the victims of poverty, and excuse themselves from the universal duty of mankind to alleviate the suffering of poverty.

Telling the poverty stricken that its their own fault, that if they would just stop having families, is not an answer to poverty. Renaming poverty as overpopulation is not humanitarian, it is an act of demographic warfare by the wealthy against the poor.

I disagree.

I see overpopulation as a biological issue, not a socio/political one.

Every population has an upward limit, beyond which the capacity of natural systems (food production, fresh water, habitat) to support the population is exceeded, and the population crashes. Human populations are at or have exceeded our planet?s ?carrying capacity?.

We were able to increase our numbers artificially for a time (thanks to the Green Revolution and other endeavors) but as a result, we have accelerated our use of the natural capital that sustains us. Who knows if we have really come out ahead? Ask the farmers around the world currently trying to produce food on arid, degraded, recently nonproductive agricultural land. Ask people in newly arid areas how confident they are of continued access to potable water and irrigation water. People of all levels of wealth are experiencing resource limitations on all continents.


Now, are vaccines immoral? I think not! Every species defends its right to live. We are clever enough to develop vaccines. Good for us!


The answer to survival is to be mindful as a species that there is no biological basis or capacity for continued exponential population growth. We cannot afford to keep increasing in numbers, in developed nor developing countries. To continue doing so does risk a catastrophic human population crash. To allow THAT to happen could be called immoral, as we have the capacity to know that the weak and vulnerable among us will be the first to go.

And unfortunately, due to our overwhelming global impact and power, it is not just our own species, but many others that will crash with us.

 

[St Michael]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

I disagree.

I see overpopulation as a biological issue, not a socio/political one.

Which brings us to the obvious: this is a philosophical question, not a scientific one.

If mankind is nothing more than just another species of animal, then it is morally acceptable to apply the concepts you described.

It all comes down to the same old philosophical debate. If there is no God, man has no greater meaning or purpose than "survival of the fittest," and "might makes right."

If there is no God, then the wealthy and the powerful will always wage demographic warfare on the poor and poverty stricken, and no argument from morality or ethics or humanitarianism will ever quell this demographic warfare against the third world.

Population control against foreign nations and their peoples is demographic warfare, not humanitarian relief. Its a national strategic defense policy of western nations to continue control of cheap supplies of strategic reserves.

And those same countries, operating under this "demographic warfare as strategic defense policy," have very little incentive to try very hard to alleviate the death rate of a pandemic in third world countries.

Keep that in mind in the months ahead.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

And those same countries, operating under this "demographic warfare as strategic defense policy," have very little incentive to try very hard to alleviate the death rate of a pandemic in third world countries.

Keep that in mind in the months ahead.

So doesn't it boil down to what you use vaccines for? To raise the QOL for everyone or wage demographic warfare?

personally, I would prefer to be my bother's keeper, but I don't see how we can produce enough vaccine fast enought to do that. So the demographic warfare is waged, not by producing the vaccine, but by distribution plans. So how do you distribute a scarce resouce in an equitable manner?

While it's true we might all be better off with a lower population, that problem needs to be addressed humanely toward all nations. if we lack the will to do so, that may be demographic warfare or perhaps a sin of omission.

.

 

[yaba]

Re: Are vaccines immoral?

I'm not talking about demographic warfare
I'm talking about allowing mother nature to run ist course
There are two many of our species ojn the planet for the planet to support us
that is an undeniable fact and when that happens mother nature will always find a way to cut that species down
we can either have a relatively quick painless death from flu or face a much nastier solution
which would you prefer?
If you don't believe we are at a critical point please read
www.chrismartenson.com
also watch the dr bartlett video on you tube on the issues of population growth
trust me when i say a flu pandemic is our best option
if not get ready for war, poverty and or much worse disease