A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

Lizw · Oct 17, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

sharon sanders said:
First on CNN: Obama will name Ron Klain as Ebola Czar
By Jake Tapper, Chief Washington Correspondent
updated 10:25 AM EDT, Fri October 17, 2014

President Obama will name Ron Klain as "Ebola Czar"
The president had opposed the creation of such a position
Klain works for an investment group, but has worked for Vice President Joe Biden
Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama will appoint Ron Klain his "Ebola czar"

----------------------------

If true - A BIG MISTAKE. This person has NO MEDICAL EXPERIENCE.

His expertise is POLITICAL and NOT MEDICAL.

<snip>

Klain is probably a really great guy....but he has no medical experience that qualifies him as Ebola Czar for the US.

I'd like to suggest that we wait and see. It sounds as though his forte is communication, and we could use some expertise there. If he's getting accurate medical information, then his ability to communicate may well turn out to be more of an asset than a medically trained person who keeps putting his foot in his mouth.

Laidback Al · Oct 17, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

Lizw said:
I'd like to suggest that we wait and see. It sounds as though his forte is communication, and we could use some expertise there. If he's getting accurate medical information, then his ability to communicate may well turn out to be more of an asset than a medically trained person who keeps putting his foot in his mouth.

Unfortunately, the issues with the handling of Ebola cases in the US has not just been communication problems, they have been medical protocol and treatment problems. An Ebola czar will need to be much more than a great communicator.

sharon sanders · Oct 17, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

Thanks Liz...but from my experience...we are screwed. I think Frieden was already saying scripted comments - which were his downfall...like "The enemy here is a virus" repeated over and over. Whose stupid idea was that?

This admin has taken a medical problem and made it a political one. I could say so many things.....I have seen a lot.

I am not the only one who has this opinion:

Vincent Racaniello @profvrr · 5m 5 minutes ago
If we hear nothing from CDC or NIAID it means they don’t like it @MarxLovesLipton

Vincent Racaniello @profvrr · 34m 34 minutes ago
There are plenty of MD scientists with great leadership skills @RegReader

Vincent Racaniello @profvrr · 34m 34 minutes ago
I do not wish to be involved, I just want the correct person chosen @JediPD

Vincent Racaniello @profvrr · 48m 48 minutes ago
Those are very big ifs @RegReader this needs to be treated as a medical issue, not political

Vincent Racaniello @profvrr · 60m 60 minutes ago
Obama will name Ron Klain as Ebola Czar http://cnn.it/ZHMB3F - if true, a disaster. A lawyer who knows nothing about viruses

sharon sanders · Oct 17, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

I am so mad that I can't see straight. Please see:

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=552643&posted=1#post552643

sharon sanders · Oct 17, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

I am not going to shut up. This was a bad choice due to Mr. Klain's lack of: public health and preparedness experience, and formal education in any related field. In addition, there may be numerous conflicts of interest here.

FluTrackers is an independent site. No one here is paid 1 penny. We are not selling anything. I have no career aspirations in public health. I do not have a resume or a linkedin account. I am free to say what I think.

And I am going to do it.

Digger · Oct 18, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

THANK YOU SHARON!!! I BACK YOU 100%.

THIS IS A TRAVESTY. I HAVE BEEN PEAKING IN NOW AND THEN TO SEE IF I WAS THE ONLY ONE FEELING LIKE COMMON SENSE NO LONGER EXISTED.

THE ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSE TO THIS HAS ENDANGERED LIVES.

WE NEED GOOD HONEST INFORMATION. EVEN IF THAT INFORMATION CONTAINS STATEMENTS LIKE "WE JUST DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT".

THESE STATEMENTS OF "NEVER CAN HAPPEN, NEVER WILL HAPPEN' ARE UNBELIEVABLE. I TAKE ISSUE WITH ANYONE WHO USES THE WORD NEVER IN ISSUING GUIDANCE THE CONTEXT OF A DISEASE.

ESPECIALLY ONE, THAT IN PERSPECTIVE WITH OTHER DISEASES, WE ARE JUST ON THE FRINGE OF AND STILL HAVE MUCH TO LEARN ABOUT.

NO, WE DO NOT NEED FEAR MONGERING, BUT WE DO NEED HONESTY, EVEN IF THAT MAY BE DISCONCERTING.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN LINKED ANYWHERE ON THE SITE BUT THIS IS A LINK TO A C-SPAN AIRING 3 DAYS AGO featuring Micheal Osterholm of CIDRAP discussing Ebola at John Hopkins in Maryland. Osterholm is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP).

He hits all the nails on the head of what has been wrong about the ?never can happen? propaganda we have been hearing from officials and why it is dangerous talk.

This runs 22 minutes, is very professional, credible, informative and very honest in all terms of what is known and unknown about Ebola. One interesting thing is that the last known genetic sequencing that was done was on a sample way back in May of this year.

Also the mention of some preliminary results of a recent ongoing Canadian Ebola primate study being done using a recent strain of Ebola. The study is process but he announces some concerning statements about it at the symposium.

Michael Osterholm of CIDRAP discusses Ebola 10-14-14 AT John Hopkins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkMKUa0sxBQ

THANK YOU FOR YOUR VOICE OF COMMON SENSE SHARON!

BEST REGARDS,
DIGGER

zincfinger · Oct 18, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

Michael Osterholm (Director of CIDRAP) is the only authority speaking in public or making statements that is WELL GROUNDED and has the critical perspective essential to taking effective actions.

He quoted Richard Feynman and he quoted Nassim Taleb's Black Swan (two of the very best authorities on how to stay grounded in reality and deal with highly unusual and unanticipated events).

He noted that we've only previously followed Ebola for a maximum of five generations. [Meaning that everyone who's been speaking with assurance about what the virus can or can't do or could do is just blowing hot air to give false reassurances.]

?This virus has only pinged us!?

?The virus doesn't (hasn't?) change(d), Africa's changed.? [meaning we're not just fighting the virus, we're fighting the changes in conditions that are allowing it to run rampant this time ]

?We have to become more comfortable with uncertainty.?

?I categorically reject the idea that you can't tell people you don't know, because you'll scare them.?

"People are never frightened by if you tell them ?I don't know, but this is something I'm willing to learn? or ?this is something and it might be very scary.? [paraphrased: what scares them is if you tell them with certainty A or with certainty B and they don't happen ? then they wonder about your credibility.]

?One of the worst enemies we can have today is dogma."

Anyone who wants to do something to help the situation should communicate with their senators and congresspersons to see that Osterholm gets and and everything he asks for *immediately*
---------------------
As for what people can do to increase their personal chances of surviving if they get infected, IMHO the single most effective measure would be to, if you smoke, STOP IMMEDIATELY (and give your lungs time to recover as much as possible before you might get infected). If you wait until you get infected 1) obviously it's not going to help prevent infection 2) it's too late to reduce the vulnerability to the disease that the tissue damage from smoking causes 3) stopping smoking at that point would add to your stress but continuing would greatly exacerbate the disease. This is not only to reduce your susceptibility to getting infected if it does go(or is already) airborne but also to increase your ability to survive it if you get it. As with influenzas, smokers are proving to be much more vulnerable than non smokers both the catching the diseases in the first place and to increased severity when they do.

sharon sanders · Oct 25, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

hat tip to Michael Coston for the link.

Finally..... FT first posted about this messaging on August 4.

Droplet spread happens when germs traveling inside droplets that are
coughed or sneezed from a sick person enter the eyes, nose, or mouth of
another person. Droplets travel short distances, less than 3 feet (1 meter)
from one person to another.

A person might also get infected by touching a surface or object that has
germs on it and then touching their mouth or nose.
Droplet spread diseases include: plague, Ebola.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/infections-spread-by-air-or-droplets.pdf

sharon sanders · Oct 25, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

NYC Mayor's Office ‏@NYCMayorsOffice 7m7 minutes ago
Remember, you cannot get Ebola without coming into direct contact with the bodily fluids of an infected person. http://nyc.gov/ebola

FluTrackers.com ‏@FluTrackers 20s20 seconds ago
@NYCMayorsOffice Not exactly accurate. Please see this CDC graphic on droplets: http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/infections-spread-by-air-or-droplets.pdf ?

Digger · Oct 25, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

sharon sanders said:
NYC Mayor's Office ‏@NYCMayorsOffice 7m7 minutes ago
Remember, you cannot get Ebola without coming into direct contact with the bodily fluids of an infected person. http://nyc.gov/ebola

FluTrackers.com ‏@FluTrackers 20s20 seconds ago
@NYCMayorsOffice Not exactly accurate. Please see this CDC graphic on droplets: http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/infections-spread-by-air-or-droplets.pdf ?

I agree Sharon.

This is deceptive in context of the other messages provided along with that message. Technically they are 100% correct in their statement but THE IMPLIED MEANING OF THEIR STATEMENT COMES ACROSS AS SIMULTANEOUS DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE INDIVIDUAL and THEIR BODY FLUIDS.

This is why we scratch our heads wondering why we see the public health systems immediately following up with intensive and thorough disinfection of of the infected individual's place of residence and destruction/removal of their personal items.

As well, the very thorough contact interviews and historical logistical tracing of the individual after the fact. Also, the heavy focus on contacts that were within the 3 foot radius (recent aircraft passenger interviews).

They know that the virus has the ability to be infectious on surfaces for sometime after being deposited. As well, we see they need to define, what manner of contact other individuals might have had with environments of places the infected visited.

I.e. Were they sneezing and/or coughing?, did they have a runny nose? did they share food or drink with anyone? did they kiss anyone? did they use a public bathroom? which ones? who else used it?

If the risks were ONLY having simultaneous direct contact with the infected, and their body fluids, we would not being seeing some of these other activities play out.

zincfinger · Oct 26, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

By a very wide margin, the single greatest factor contributing to the public concern is the flagrant wide disparity between what public officials are saying and the ACTIONS seen being taken on news videos.

If it so "difficult to catch", just why, exactly are they all running around in hazmat suits and burning personal items and decontaminating apartments and spraying everything in sight with disinfectant?

An equally wide disparity is between gross misapplications of the phrase "abundance of caution" and the grossly negligent actual practice in situations it's been used for. (as in allowing a person with known very high level exposure to known Ebola patients in very late stages to ride a commercial airliner despite having a temperature, just because it wasn't quite "high enough".

PLEASE! No one is stupid enough to interpret this as "an abundance of caution".

"You can fool some the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." A. Lincoln

Not even in the USA!

Politicians everywhere, but particularly in the USA, try to cover every problem with a layer of BS. In critical situations like a potential pandemic, that's especially unlikely to wash

Laidback Al · Nov 19, 2014

Re: A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

To bring this thread back to the issue of aerosolized Ebola transmission . . . .

Yesterday, CIDRAP posted a commentary by Rachael M Jones and Lisa M Brosseau entitled COMMENTARY: Ebola virus transmission via contact and aerosol ? a new paradigm (link). The article includes a discussion about Ebola transmission and generalized aerosol particle dispersal with graphics. The key section of the article is

This information allows us to describe the ways in which EVD can be transmitted from one person to another:
1. Direct contact with infected body fluids
1. Body fluid containing Ebola virus that comes in direct contact with the skin may enter the body through a break in the skin.

2. Body fluid containing Ebola virus may transmit an infection if sprayed directly onto mucous membranes of the mouth, nose, or eyes.

2. Indirect contact with infected body fluids
1. Body fluid containing Ebola virus can be present on an object and then transferred by the hands to the mouth, nose, or eyes.

2. Medical equipment (eg, syringes) contaminated with a body fluid containing Ebola virus can break the skin and introduce the virus into the blood or other tissues.

3. Inhalation of infectious aerosols near an infected person
1. The emission of body fluids containing Ebola virus?through vomiting, diarrhea, coughing, or hemorrhage?may generate aerosols containing virus that can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory system.

2. Medical procedures like intubation, bronchoscopy, drug delivery, assisted breathing, etc, may generate aerosols containing Ebola virus, which can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory system.

Aerosol transmission recognizes that the spraying of body fluids containing Ebola virus directly onto mucous membranes is unlikely to occur in the absence of inhalation of infectious aerosols. Available data do not indicate that aerosol transmission at a distance from an infected person is an important route of Ebola virus transmission. In this we agree with statements from the CDC that the "airborne" (old paradigm) route of transmission (inhalation of infectious particles at a distance from the source) has not been documented in previous EVD outbreaks.

h/t Shiloh
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A Note to HHS/CDC - Please stop saying ebola is "not airborne" in your messaging - close proximity and droplet size matter

Lizw

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Laidback Al

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sharon sanders

Editor-in-Chief & President

sharon sanders

Editor-in-Chief & President

sharon sanders

Editor-in-Chief & President

Digger

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zincfinger

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sharon sanders

Editor-in-Chief & President

sharon sanders

Editor-in-Chief & President

Digger

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zincfinger

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Laidback Al

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