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Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning....

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  • Full text currently available via PDF link below. The pathway I used last night isn't working anymore for me.

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...2e4c4ce868d78f
    Semantic Scholar
    • Corpus ID: 220933719
    Bio-terrorism Strategy in the Wuhan Coronavirus Pandemic: A Perspective from Conspiratorial and Apocalyptic Hypotheses
    • Oluka, Nduka Lucas, Elijah Onyedikachi
    • Published 2020

    The frequency with which Wuhan Covid-19 virus appears randomly all over the world has raised suspicion that it could be a bio-warfare and hegemonic tool of Beijing, the emergent imperial power to sustain its over bearing ambition and influence in the global system in recent times. The controversies surrounding the outbreak of the virus have left no doubt that the virus is concocted in a laboratory in Wuhan, China. This study, therefore, attempts to ascertain whether the outbreak of Covid-19 or Coronavirus pandemic is a natural epidemic or a bioterrorism as it is alleged to be put to use for sinister motives by the Communist Party in China. The study also relates same to the conspiratorial and apocalyptic hypotheses surrounding its outbreak since late December 2019. The study examines the concept of bioterrorism and biological weapons, and most importantly “Covid-19” and the challenges it poses to the entire world, W.H.O and the intelligence community as a tool of state actor terrorism. To review relevant literatures in the study area, the study adopted historical design which is qualitative and explorative in nature. Historical research method is applied via secondary sources of data, including textbooks, official documents, research articles and opinion papers, and internet materials. The study finds it necessary to suggest appropriate measures to forestall further spread of the strain as a means for biological warfare by the Communist Party of China as alleged by conspiracy theorists.

    rsisinternational.org
    https://www.rsisinternational.org/jo...-6/474-484.pdf
    Never forget Excalibur.
    “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed
    Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JJackson View Post
      NAMRU2 & 3 suffered all kinds of conspiracy theories in both Indonesia & Egypt - dastardly US military spreading bird flu or just a front for spies. In these threads I had written something about testing in the early days of the H1N1(2009) pandemic about looking for a signal for a novel type A flu in the point of care tests results under 'Type A unsub-typed' as these might show a spike. One of our members corrected an error in my understanding of the sensitivity and then turned out to work in a US military lab in California which had been the first to sequence the new virus. Big discovery so they went to the boss and requested to announce but he said no. Reason - If it comes for us we will be knee deep in claims we lab created it, let the CDC or civilian lab announce.
      Your story is not supported by the facts. Below is an interview on April 25, 2009 done by Jon Cohen of Science in the same month that the untyped flu A virus sample was first examined at the US military lab in California. Obviously there was an announcement. What other inaccuracies are there in your story?


      Behind the Scenes: Navy Researchers Helped Spot Swine Flu in the United States


      By Jon Cohen

      Apr. 25, 2009 , 2:10 PM

      SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA—Late on the afternoon of 16 April, 5 days before the public first learned about the current outbreak of swine flu, Michele Ginsberg received word from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that a 10-year-old boy in San Diego County had tested positive for the rare infection. “I thought this could be the big one, honestly,” says Ginsberg, chief of community epidemiology for the San Diego County Health & Human Services Agency. By “big one,” Ginsberg meant the long-anticipated arrival of a new strain of influenza that humans had not seen before and could completely overwhelm the immune system, vaccinated or not.

      Ginsberg says the first two cases that surfaced easily could have been missed, but novel research projects under way in the San Diego area, both connected to the Naval Health Research Center (NHRC) here, determined that something unusual was afoot. NHRC has developed sophisticated tests for influenza that can sort out whether the virus is strain A or B and then the specific subtype based on two proteins, hemagglutinin and neuraminidase, on the viral surface. “In the usual setting, they would have done a rapid test and found that they were both positive for influenza A, and that’s as far as it would have gone,” says Ginsberg. But the new tests couldn't identify the specific subtype, so the Navy forwarded the samples to CDC.

      NHRC has received little attention for its critical role in uncovering the U.S. outbreak with what’s known as an H1N1 influenza A virus, so ScienceInsider asked for a detailed explanation of its influenza program and how these two cases came its way.

      Answers after the jump.

      Q: When did the NHRC increase its surveillance capabilities for influenza?

      Our expansion was largely a result of an initiative by the Department of Defense’s (DOD's) Global Emerging Infectious System to intensify pandemic surveillance as a result of the avian influenza (H5N1) crisis. NHRC augmented existing febrile respiratory illness surveillance programs in military recruit trainees and ship-board populations and expanded into dependent populations in San Diego. Also, in a collaborative effort with the CDC, we developed surveillance on the Southern California-Mexico border, which was enhanced this year to deepen surveillance and augment diagnostic training of our Mexican collaborators via funding from the Department of State’s Biosecurity Engagement Program.

      Q. How did these swine flu cases end up at NHRC?

      The first case, a 10-year-old DOD dependent, was identified in a trial to evaluate a novel influenza diagnostic. On 1 April, a swab sample from the patient was tested on the diagnostic platform. The result suggested an influenza A but subtype negative virus. Our screening questionnaire deemed the patient at low-risk for an avian influenza infection. Per the study protocol, a second specimen was sent to a third-party lab in Wisconsin. This laboratory, along with the state laboratory, confirmed the influenza A/un-typed finding. The specimen and an isolated virus were then sent to the CDC for confirmation. The CDC determined the virus was an influenza A/swine/H1N1.

      The second case, a 9-year-old female from Brawley, California, was sampled in the collaborative study with the CDC’s Border Infectious Disease Surveillance Project. What was thought to be a routine specimen was sent to our laboratory the first week in April. Our initial testing demonstrated an influenza A/untyped virus. Further testing on the Ibis T5000 platform, which infers H and N types from multiple genomic signatures, suggested an influenza A/swine/H1 virus. [Although most tests rely on known DNA sequence or antibodies to identify influenza isolates, the Ibis T5000 has a mass spectrometer and can identify unknown subtypes.] This was right about the time we received word from CDC about the first case. At that point we knew we were onto something significant. The CDC subsequently confirmed an influenza A/swine/H1N1 virus.

      Q: What was the reaction of the researchers at NHRC?

      The evasive nature of influenza viruses keeps us on our toes. Because of the obvious public health concern, we found it prudent to send the sample to CDC for confirmation.

      Q: How many influenza specimens does NHRC process during flu season and has it increased since the discovery of this swine flu case?

      NHRC regularly processes around 5500 specimens a year, about two-thirds of which come in during the influenza season from October to February. Normally, towards the end of the flu season, the number of specimens we process each week falls. In the 2008-2009 season, cases began to decrease in late January. This decline continued until last week when the number of cases and the sampling effort among our civilian populations was increased.

      Q: Had you ever had specimens before that you could not type and sent to CDC?

      This was the first.

      Q: Does NHRC do surveillance only for San Diego County or for a larger area?

      Our surveillance is quite expansive. NHRC is the Navy hub for the conduct of population-based surveillance at recruit centers involving the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard. We also conduct surveillance onboard 20 large-deck U.S. Navy ships in three fleets, within the Pacific Rim, among deployed populations and of course along the U.S./Mexico border. We participate in surveillance during military exercises such as Cobra Gold, in Thailand, and also collaborate in febrile respiratory infection surveillance with the Singaporean military.

      Q: Do you now have the capability to identify this strain of swine flu or must samples still be sent to the CDC?

      We hope to have the reagents for the swine variant soon. We are in the process of developing our own reagents. At this time we can use advanced diagnostics such as the Ibis T5000 to detect swine viruses. That stated, it is important to share novel specimens with the CDC for the purpose of public health. Both institutes gain from this collaboration.


      https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2009...-united-states

      Comment


      • Emily
        Emily commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I remember that. It did open them up to accusations from political enemies, but so what? It's better than censoring and hurling cheap shots out from under a rock.

      • JJackson
        JJackson commented
        Editing a comment
        I am not sure this refutes what I said. Admittedly I was recounting an anecdote told to me but I believed it at the time and this story is very close to what I was told. The only difference is I was told they already knew what they had when they sent it off for confirmation but did not announce their results but waited for a civilian agency to do so. This is a spokesman recounting the events after the fact I do not know if he knew what had actually happened in the lab. My information came from a bench scientist who actually did the analysis. If we are picking holes in stories this one is factually incorrect.

        "NHRC has developed sophisticated tests for influenza that can sort out whether the virus is strain A or B and then the specific subtype based on two proteins, hemagglutinin and neuraminidase, on the viral surface. “In the usual setting, they would have done a rapid test and found that they were both positive for influenza A, and that’s as far as it would have gone,” says Ginsberg. But the new tests couldn't identify the specific subtype, so the Navy forwarded the samples to CDC."

        This is not correct. As I pointed out I came to discuss this as a result of my posting about the testing regime. There are three levels of testing which were going on. The rapid test (lateral flow used in GP surgeries) which just tell you if you have flu, they are not very reliable. Then there are the state labs, and similar, used for conformation, these use reagents supplied by the CDC which can sort Type A from B and then the type A sub types into H1 & H3, and if it fails to detect either 'Type A un-subtyped'. The new H1N1(2009) Type A H1 was sufficiently different to the seasonal H1 so that the reagent could not recognise it so classifies it as 'Type A un-subtyped'. This is where I got corrected, what I did not know at the time was the A or B test is a hundred times more sensitive than the H1 or H3 part of the test. The third test is full genome sequencing by PCR and would be done the CDC or any other research lab with the right kit. Any State or regional lab would do the middle test so “In the usual setting, they would have done a rapid test and found that they were both positive for influenza A, and that’s as far as it would have gone,” is true for a GP surgery but not for a bigger lab like this NHRC which would have the middle test or its equivalent. According to the events as related to me this sample was also internally PCR sequenced, but the credit not claimed for the reason given, but forwarded for confirmation which came back with the result they already knew.
        So I bat back the question "What other inaccuracies are there in your story?".
        Last edited by JJackson; September 16, 2020, 05:37 AM.

      • sharon sanders
        sharon sanders commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't have a story. I am not connected to the NHRC lab. I don't know the Science writer. I am just looking at the dates. It appears that H1N1 was discovered at the beginning of April 2009 and a couple of weeks later someone at the lab gave an interview about it.

    • Originally posted by sharon sanders View Post
      Apparently Dr. Yan's twitter account was suspended.
      She was interviewed on tv tonight and she says she worked in the W.H.O. reference lab in Hong Kong. The plot thickens. No wonder everyone is so upset about her.

      She also said she is going to release an additional paper.

      Again, I have no idea if she is correct or not, but it is interesting.

      Here is the direct link, again, to her paper: https://zenodo.org/record/4028830

      Also...

      FluTrackers is Independent Media.

      Comment



      • Covid-19 "genetically engineered to target humans"

        Ana Beatriz Micó AS English
        Update: 15/09/2020 22:26

        Li-Meng Yan, the Chinese virologist who has been in hiding in the US after claiming that the Chinese authorities not only knew about the novel coronavirus long before the first cases were officially reportedin Wuhan last December but who has also suggested Covid-19 was created in a Chinese military laboratory has published with her team of researchers a 26-page document laying out her theory that the pandemic sweeping the world is not of natural origin.

        ... The report also claims that the novel coronavirus has been adapted by already-identified naturally occurring coronaviruses in bats by the Chinese military.

        The research follows “three lines of evidence” that Yan and her team say demonstrate Covid-19 is a lab-based virus.

        https://en.as.com/en/2020/09/15/late...98_232755.html

        Comment


        • Mary’s article says:

          The report states that “ZC45 and ZXC21 were discovered between July 2015 and February 2017 and isolated and characterized by the aforementioned military research laboratories.”
          This is the paper Sharon posted about that research:
          Genomic characterization and infectivity of a novel SARS-like coronavirus in Chinese bats
          "To test the pathogenicity of the ZC45 agent, infection experiments were performed in suckling rats. 3-day-old suckling BALB/c rats (SLAC, China) were intracerebrally inoculated with 20 μl of volume grinding supernatant of ZC45 intestinal tissue."


          That’s horrific Island of Dr. Moreau ‘science’ – like Gajdusek's experiments and what is described here:

          NPR 9.1: China's Role in the Chemical and Biological ... www.nonproliferation.org › wp-content › uploads › npr
          It should be noted, however, that the Institute of Military Medicine
          is not listed in the PRC confidence-building declarations
          under the BWC. The facilities supporting this unit, as described
          in the article, are potentially dual-use (i.e., have
          both civilian and potential military applications):

          The research institute looks like a sanatorium
          or a villa. Inside is a mysterious animal kingdom.
          Its laboratories are sealed by layers of
          glass. Its workers are servicemen whose entire
          bodies are covered in white protective clothing
          with only their eyes uncovered. Affixed on some
          glass doors is the warning “Deadly Bacteria
          Laboratory.” It is reported that the harm done
          by a leak of any drop of bacteria from there
          would be no less than that caused by a nuclear
          leak. The section for flies and mosquitoes is a
          room with the highest classification in the whole
          building. In this air-conditioned room, tens of
          thousands of deadly insects live on quality milk
          bran and fresh animal blood.116
          Mary’s article continues:
          “It also says that when a non-military lab, the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre, published a Nature article reporting “a conflicting close phylogenetic relationship between SARS-CoV-2 and ZC45/ZXC2 rather than with RaTG13, was quickly shut down for ‘rectification.’””
          We have a thread about the closure:
          Chinese laboratory that first shared coronavirus genome with world ordered to close for ‘rectification’


          The article below describes this virus pretty well. It is mostly mild or undetectable in younger healthier people. But age and chronic health issues or genetic disablilties signal a nasty turn.



          BIOTECHNOLOGY: GENETICALLY ENGINEERED PATHOGENS
          Lt Col Joel Almosara, BSC, USAF
          June 2010

          The Counterproliferation Papers Series was established by the USAF Counterproliferation Center to provide information and analysis to assist the understanding of the U.S. national security policy-makers and USAF officers to help them better prepare to counter the threat from weapons of mass destruction.
          ….
          The properties and characteristics of these genetically engineered pathogens could make them appear quite benign, but when triggered by a signal, they could become extremely lethal. Thus, the nature of these bioweapons could make a covert attack appear to be a natural disease outbreak; and by the time of discovery, the damage would already have been done. As noted, Japan, after more than half a century, only then formally acknowledged that they used biological weapons in mainland China.
          Biotechnology and its dual-use nature will continue to revolutionize the biological weapons program. When a weapon system can have a small footprint, become easy to manipulate, and be used at a specific time and place of the attacker’s choosing, then it will almost invariably become a highly sought after weapon for mass destruction. Biological warfare may be is inevitable by the year 2035. It can never be too early to be prepared with the knowledge and power to deter or prevent such an attack. The United States cannot afford to lose this battle.
          Last edited by Emily; September 17, 2020, 02:57 AM. Reason: Fixed link.
          Never forget Excalibur.
          “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed
          Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

          Comment


          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            "Emily - Is this evidence of something?"

            JJackson - Is this a court of law? Am I being paid to be lawyer, or even to furnish you with 'useful' data? My bank account has zero evidence of that. I think there is evidence here of you being rude and nasty though.
            Whatever cooks your books and thanks for letting me know about the link.

          • JJackson
            JJackson commented
            Editing a comment
            Emily it is definitely not my intention to be rude or nasty to anyone here and certainly not you who I have worked with for years and always viewed as friend, the same applies to Sharon. My problem with this thread, and the items in your post, is that they are purporting to be evidence of lab generation of a virus and to someone who does not understand - and I do not include you or Sharon in that because I know better from the the threads we have all contributed to in the past - it looks plausible and authoritative. That is why I have been taking the time to try and explain why they are built on incorrect data or unjustified inferences based on that data, at least as I understand it. My understanding may be wrong and I am happy to change my opinion if there was anything in this thread that made me think I had misunderstood something but nothing presented so far is substantial.

          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            "it looks plausible and authoritative"
            Hey, I like that! I'll try to put a disclaimer on posts that explore biosafety/ethics rather than offer direct evidence in this particular case since I'll never have access to the only kind of evidence that will work. (And could be thrown out of court by a biased judge, anyway.)
            We're good, JJackson.

        • Originally posted by JJackson View Post
          NAMRU2 & 3 suffered all kinds of conspiracy theories in both Indonesia & Egypt - dastardly US military spreading bird flu or just a front for spies.
          Also - for the record. I remember those accusations from 2006/2007. Who knows? I do not work for the US government. This site is not affiliated with any US gov entity. Accusing a US lab/military facility of anything does not irritate me in the least. It is not personal for me.

          If you want to deflect the China lab discussion to some possible US lab escape topics - go for it - on another thread please. You can title it "Possible US government lab escapes all over the world since 2006".

          Everyone knows there are lab escapes. All countries deny it - but it happens. This is what makes the China argument so ridiculous in this case. It is 100% possible that SARS-Cov-2 is an accidental lab escape. I am not convinced it was purposeful as Dr. Yan says - but accidental lab escapes happen.


          Comment


          • JJackson
            JJackson commented
            Editing a comment
            I can not say it was not a lab escape or that HIV was not a bio weapon designed to attack gay people because I can not prove a negative. All I can say is that these two statements are basically equally well supported by the available evidence i.e. there isn't anything worthy of calling evidence that I have seen.
            There are many things that need debating testing, vaccines and their distribution, etc.
            I am not sure what this thread is even claiming apart from that China has been a bad actor in this outbreak. I would rate it as good, at least in comparison to most countries which does not set the bar very high.

        • Comme de plus en plus sont d'accord sur les erreurs de management, il est proposé quoi pour que cela ne se reproduise pas ?

          Comment


          • bertrand789
            bertrand789 commented
            Editing a comment
            si beaucoup disent que le concept One Health, déployé pas , comme cette O.N.G , est une partie de la solution, il me semble temps, de regarder dans tous les détails comment celui-ci a et est utilisé ici et là .

            En Chine, sans que l'on dispose de vrais détails , il semble que les élevages de rat bambous ne soient plus recommandés , ni autorisés. Mais ou sont les faits scientifiques produits et le motif invoqué , pour le cas de cette espèce.

            En Hollande et au Dannemark , comme il a été prouvé le passage homme animal, puis en se déployant chez un animal sensible d'élevage , l'émergence de nouveaux variants , avec retour chez l'homme, les élevages atteins sont supprimés . Le motif, n'est en rien , comme certains le prétendent la protection animale, mais de mon point de vue , la protection des populations humaines, vu le fait que l'on ne peut qualifier le risque de ces nouveaux variants .

            Sauf que cette position ne semble pas partager , notamment par les américains, par exemple qui pour ce type d'élevage , font quoi dans les faits ?


            Maintenant , en regardant la situation dans le monde, on peut noter , que l'attitude vis à vis des animaux de compagnie qui peuvent produire le même danger est disons, non formalisée et ou pire .

            Il y a certes , les visons, les furets , mais il y a aussi les cochons d'Inde , qui sont à la fois un animal de compagnie en x lieu et un aliment dans certains pays .

            Ne serait-il pas temps , de faire un fil spécifique sur ce sujet , et de lister les attitudes des uns et des autres sur des bases formalisées.

            Donc quid de la position des chinois , des américains pour commencer?

            juste pour sourire, ils ont dit et disent quoi les membres de cette O.N.G , qui a été cité comme les experts de ce sujet ?



            Quand aux généticiens, dans les cas avérés dannois et hollandais, des variants sont apparus, mais peut-on à posteriori qualifier un nouveau variant par le biais d'un passage homme animal?

            si oui, combien des variants qualifiés au monde sont issu de passage homme animaux ?

            dire que l'on ne peut ou sait faire serait un plus ...



            Au moment ou certains écrivent ceci:
            https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...icials-hate-it
            donc que économiquement et médicalement , la gestion de crise proposée, par une entreprise identifiée a été une belle connerie,

            Si l'on va tendre de façon volontaire et ou forcée vers une forme d'immunité collective, regarder avec soin l'ensemble des aspects de la diffusion de ce type de virus dans nos sociétés me semble une vraie nécessité d'une part et d'autre part que les membres de ce forum , vu ses qualités fassent leur part aussi ...

            Faire des remarques et parfois des critiques, pour de grandes instances, comme, par exemple, l'office internationale des épizooties, ce n'est pas être un complotiste, mais plus, de mon point de vue, une marque de respect , pour le travail fait , mais aussi le travail à faire ...

          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            I think this could help limit at least the dangerous experiments that involve animal suffering:
            https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...e-difficulties
            Also, a vision for developing the role of the Biological Weapons Convention as part of a larger interconnected global security architecture seems very much needed.

        • Merci,
          je suis d'accord pour cet aspect expérimentation animale, mais dans le dossier qui nous occupe, c'est une infime partie du sujet, car le travail sur les lignées cellulaires en amont des expérimentations , c'est sans danger .

          En tout cas, vu les animaux de compagnie sensible, non vraiment suivi et sans vrai conseil donné , ce me semble une gigantesque expérimentation à ciel ouvert .

          Les proriétaires d'animaux de compagnie ou de consommation ( cas des cochon d'Inde: Cavia porcellus) ont été prévenus des dangers ?

          Quand on se souvient des propos des uns et des autres vis à vis des habitudes alimentaires des chinois , c'est risible . Mais les chinois ne me semblent pas avoir publié ce qui se doit , notamment, sur les rats des bambous, etc ...


          La science , ce n'est pas la formalisation du su ?

          Comment


          • bertrand789
            bertrand789 commented
            Editing a comment
            Andean immigrants in New York City raise and sell guinea pigs for meat, and some South American restaurants in major cities in the United States serve cuy as a delicacy.[147][33] In the 1990s and 2000s, La Molina University began exporting large breed guinea pigs to Europe, Japan, and the United States in the hope of increasing human consumption outside of countries in northern South America

            Andean immigrants in New York City raise and sell guinea pigs for meat, and some South American restaurants in major cities in the United States serve cuy as a delicacy.[147][33] In the 1990s and 2000s, La Molina University began exporting large breed guinea pigs to Europe, Japan, and the United States in the hope of increasing human consumption outside of countries in northern South America
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_pig

            aucun variant imputable au passage en tous ces lieux ?

            j'aimerai les réponses de généticiens sv p ...

        • September 14, 2020

          Preprint Open Access

          Proposed SARS-CoV-2 Spillover During 2019 Review of Samples from a Mineshaft in Mojiang, Yunnan Province, China


          This research examines the activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in late 2019, when samples from a mineshaft associated with a suspected SARS outbreak were being reviewed. It proposes that spillover occurred during this review of samples including of a virus (BtCoV/4991) only 1% different to SARS-CoV-2 in its RdRp.

          https://zenodo.org/record/4029545#.X2OwhxBKg2z
          "Safety and security don't just happen, they are the result of collective consensus and public investment. We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in our society, a life free of violence and fear."
          -Nelson Mandela

          Comment


          • JJackson
            JJackson commented
            Editing a comment
            Is it a preprint if someone uploads to Zenodo? I can post there as can you just give them an email address and upload it is probably harder to comment here. I can not see anything on this upload site being accepted by any journal with a peer review process. At least with the bio and medarix some of the papers will eventually be reviewed and published.

        • http://www.filippalentzos.com/
          Key take away for me: We have a problem distinguishing nature from humans mimicking nature solely on microbial forensic evidence. Orthogonal evidence, like lab notebooks, is a crucial aspect in tipping the balance one way or the other.
          Never forget Excalibur.
          “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed
          Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

          Comment


          • To provide both views here is a recent NatGeo article. My personal experience with this media is that they do not correct inaccuracies in their reporting. Anyway...it is important to always read both views in a controversy.


            Why misinformation about COVID-19’s origins keeps going viral

            Another piece of coronavirus misinformation is making the rounds. Here’s how to sift through the muck.

            September 18, 2020

            snip

            Finding answers to the precise events that led to a spillover pandemic is a “needle in a haystack proposition,” says Ian Lipkin, an epidemiologist from Columbia University, who co-authored an early research paper in Nature Medicine about the natural origins of SARS-CoV-2. The Yan report claims this Nature Medicine report had a “conflict of interest” due to Lipkin’s work in containing the 2002-2003 SARS epidemic, for which he received an award from the Chinese government. Lipkin says this accusation is “absurd,” and when asked for his view on the role of bioengineering in the origins of SARS-CoV-2, he adds: “There is no data to support this.”

            https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...act-check-cvd/

            Comment


            • On now...not sure if you tube will allow this video to stay online.



              Comment


            • Prof. Racaniello felt that Dr. LiMeng Yan's Zenodo post needed examination so the TWiV team (3 Virology Professor and a Professor of Immunology) review it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQplOe8-LE

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JJackson View Post
                Prof. Racaniello felt that Dr. LiMeng Yan's Zenodo post needed examination so the TWiV team (3 Virology Professor and a Professor of Immunology) review it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQplOe8-LE
                Thanks for posting. In a search for the truth all the facts must be considered. Interesting.

                The group call this paper "pseudoscience" and "an attempt at getting attention".

                It is unfortunate is that instead of just sticking to the science at issue they go into the background of the paper and question the motivations of the publishers.

                The twiv group has opened themselves up to the same scrutiny about the background (i.e. funding) of their work.

                This is going to be a wild ride.

                Comment


                • sharon sanders
                  sharon sanders commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Searching Racaniello's blog I found this from May. I did not listen but it might be interesting. TWiV 619: Recombination led to emergence of SARS-CoV-2 https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/27/t...of-sars-cov-2/

                • sharon sanders
                  sharon sanders commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Still searching through...and on this controversy, blog posted in March: Hydroxychloroquine reduces viral load in COVID-19 patients https://www.virology.ws/2020/03/19/h...ts/#more-13842

                • Pathfinder
                  Pathfinder commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I found this Sharon:

                  SARS-CoV-2 furin cleavage site revisited

                  14 MAY 2020
                  ...
                  An interesting question is the origin of the furin cleavage site it SARS-CoV-2. Its closest relative, the bat isolate RaTG13, does not have this site. Nor do any of the other bat SARS-like CoVs or the pangolin CoVs that have been isolated. However recently a newly isolated bat SARS-like CoV, RmYN02, was shown to contain a poly basic amino acid insertion in the spike glycoprotein. This observation supports the hypothesis that the furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 arose by recombination among bat viruses in nature.
                  ...
                  --------------------------------------------
                  Comments section:

                  RAD
                  15 May 2020, 10:53 am

                  Vincent Racaniello said:
                  > This observation supports the hypothesis that the furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 arose by recombination among bat viruses in nature.

                  A recombination event is key to this hypothesis. In nature, it requires that a single animal was simultaneously infected by two viruses; a low probability but not implausible event. Recombination in the lab is also plausible but it requires Gain-of-Function type research on the RaTG13 virus. I have no idea how probable this lab scenario is but I’d prefer to see the lab hypothesis falsified rather than dismissed outright.

                  Bret Weinstein on his Darkhorse podcast thinks the lab hypothesis is much more likely but I think he is overly focused the respiratory infection of cave roosting bats rather than the gastrointestinal infection of bats that spread the disease to other animals through their guano outside of the cave environment.
                  ...
                  feathers
                  17 May 2020, 2:18 pm

                  Vincent – I don’t understand your logic here. You’re basically saying a virus that shares 61% similarity (RmYN02) is a smoking gun to a natural event simply because it also shares the insertion of multiple amino acids at the junction site of the S1 and S2? You realize this virus is something on the order of 11500 bp different from SARS-CoV-2…hardly the precursor virus.
                  ...
                  Steven Quay, MD, PhD
                  31 May 2020, 3:32 am

                  The following statement is false: However recently a newly isolated bat SARS-like CoV, RmYN02, was shown to contain a poly basic amino acid insertion in the spike glycoprotein. This observation supports the hypothesis that the furin cleavage site in SARS-CoV-2 arose by recombination among bat viruses in nature.

                  SARS-Cov-2 has a furin sequence P-R-R-A. The RmYN02 sequence has NO BASIN AMINO ACIDS!!!

                  LINK
                  ...
                  Lilian
                  13 June 2020, 10:52 am
                  RmYN02 has not insertions at the S1/S2 junction. The alignment in the paper is wrong.
                  ...
                  https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/14/s...%20in%20humans.

              • It is unfortunate is that instead of just sticking to the science at issue they go into the background of the paper and question the motivations of the publishers.
                I think it is important to look at the motivation of articles that argue against the bulk of scientific opinion, be it petro-chemical companies and climate change or disgruntled Chinese citizens and SARS. It does not necessarily prove they are wrong but it would definitely make me scrutinize their claims and data very closely.
                TWiV gets support from the American society for Microbiology and the American society for Virology (ASM/ASV) & and donations from listeners also it has been running for 14 years, about the same as FluTrackers, so its raison d'etre is obvious. The organisation behind that post was founded last year to work on human rights abroad by a Chinese billionaire - which has to raise warning flags when they then start posting highly controversial statements about a topic way outside their remit, especially when it makes accusations against a country their funder has an unrelated beef with.

                Comment


                • sharon sanders
                  sharon sanders commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Oh, don't get me wrong about looking at all facets of something. I think everything should be considered, but when you criticize the funding source be prepared for a boomerang. That's all I am saying. I wish the Racaniello group had not opened the door. They had a great discussion on the science.
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