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  • Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

    Source: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/new...newthread&f=94

    Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns
    Katie Mercer, Canwest News Service
    Published: 1 hour ago

    VANCOUVER - During an influenza pandemic, freighters will be docked, medications will be scarce and people will starve, a leading international expert told a conference Wednesday.

    "More people will likely die from this than from the pandemic," said Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

    North American pandemic planning hasn't factored in its dependency on Asian markets, Osterh
    olm told attendees to the "Are You Ready for a Pandemic?" conference.

    The impending pandemic will most likely originate in Asia, the "roulette table" for serious H5N1 flu virus genetic mutations that cause pandemics, warned Osterholm. If that happens, trade supply lines will die along with the influenza's victims, he added.

    Osterholm's apocalyptic warnings have lauded him the "Chicken Little" of influenza pandemics by some. Panicked and angry e-mail responses to his appearance on Oprah last year single-handily shut down his university's computer server.

    But international influenza researchers predict the next pandemic will be similar to the 1918-19 Spanish Flu, which killed more than 40 million people.

    The next pandemic will be global in just weeks and will last 12 to 18 months, Osterholm said, although noting that the economic effects will be instantaneous.

    The problem is that pandemic planning in North America has been based on all other factors such as trade and electricity being normal, but that won't be the case, said Osterholm.

    That's because many highly skilled workers such as the 50,000 freighter employees worldwide "are not on any vaccine plan in any country," he said. It takes two people to navigate the freighters coming in daily. Take one away and those freighters and their supplies will remain docked, leaving people around the world, including in North America, struggling with dwindling food and medical supplies.

    Replenishment of lifesaving generic medications, most of which are manufactured in China and India, won't be shipped. And influenza-testing kits, respiratory masks and the raw materials to make them all come from Asia, warned Osterholm.

    Even continental trade will be impacted if borders close as a preventative measure.

    "Border closings aren't going to make a difference in spreading influenza, but they make a difference when it comes to transportation issues," he said.


    But that's only if modes of transportation are still operational. The moral dilemma of who receives available vaccines first is still being debated and talks in the United States seem to point to children and mothers, Osterholm said.

    But he's not convinced this is a viable option.

    "More kids and mothers will die if we don't protect our electricity workers, miners, first responders and health-care workers," said Osterholm. Without these workers, North America could face electricity and gas shortages, derailing trains and putting the brakes on truck transportation.

    These are the sort of factors businesses and industries need to start preparing for, said Frank Welsh, director of the office of emergency preparedness at Public Health Agency of Canada.

    "We need to look forward and figure out together how we are going to recover."


    ? Vancouver Province 2008

  • #2
    Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

    just Osterholm.

    Or does any other expert or "expert" see it this way ?




    More people than from the pandemic will likely die from
    freighters being docked, medications being scarce and starving

    (it's not clear if he thinks this applies to USA or worldwide)
    I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
    my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

      I think that Osterholm predictions are really understandable. In fact, one of the my worst concern is the ''continuity'' of chemical plants operations in case of mass-casualties event, such as pandemic flu is.
      The absence from work of the critical workers that maintain the ''continuous-cycle'' chemical plant may cause severe damage to the infrastructures with possible toxic leakages and heavy pollution of the air, soil, water adding further strain to a already bad hit population.
      Further, same plants productions are directed to electric generators and thus a failure in the chain of chemicals may result in the partial halt of power generation.
      The assurance that critical industries workers will be protected by a pandemic flu is awaited in the perspective to enhance societal resilience to disaster.
      (It is also difficult to provide a back-up number of workers for this industries due to high skill they required to work.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

        "No Chemicals" has the potential to mean: "No safe drinking water in major cities". Many suppliers of public water are not required by law to store even a 3 month supply of water treatment chemicals needed to keep public tap water safe to drink. Some water suppliers may only have a few days supply of chemicals on hand at any given time.

        Properly storing these chemicals has the added costs of proper containers as well as space, security and proper monitoring. Some of the chemicals such as chlorine are highly reactive and corrosive. These chemicals have to be properly stored in specially designed containers under certain controlled conditions. They can not just be left laying around. This adds expenses to the bottom line of water suppliers who have come to depend on Just-in-Time deliveries.

        Public water may still be available during a pandemic but if it is not safe to drink waterborne diseases may be an issue. If the chemicals added during the water purification process and the process itself is not properly performed and monitored due to absenteeism there could potentially be additional dangers to the public.
        We were put on this earth to help and take care of one another.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

          did these "disruptions" happen in 1918 or in other epidemics before ?

          (more killed by economical chaos than by the virus/bacterium itself)



          Oterholm has been caught in wrong statements and tricky wordings before.
          I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
          my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

            Please go to my recent post on Flu Trackers: Protecting Public Health and Global Transportation Systems During an Influenza Pandemic
            Thomas Luke
            Last edited by Laidback Al; June 26, 2008, 09:50 AM. Reason: added link

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

              Originally posted by gsgs View Post
              did these "disruptions" happen in 1918 or in other epidemics before ?

              (more killed by economical chaos than by the virus/bacterium itself)



              Oterholm has been caught in wrong statements and tricky wordings before.
              Our dependence upon a complex infrastructure to support activities of daily living is very different today than it was in 1918.

              To use the drinking water example: in 1918 we did not have complex drinking water treatment plants that chlorinated/disinfected water and no systems to distribute the treated water over large areas.
              Separate the wheat from the chaff

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                <i>"did these "disruptions" happen in 1918 or in other epidemics before?"</i>

                Yes, and they are annotated in numerous reports posted to this website.

                <i>To use the drinking water example: in 1918 we did not have complex drinking water treatment plants that chlorinated/disinfected water and no systems to distribute the treated water over large areas.</i>

                Please read this:



                More than one thousand US cities were routinely chlorinating the drinking water supply in 1918; public water supply chlorination standards were published in 1914.

                Moreover, large-scale, complex drinking water supply distribution system technology (long distance transport and local storage) was pioneered in London and Germany, nearly 150 years earlier.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                  Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                  did these "disruptions" happen in 1918 or in other epidemics before ?
                  In 1918 major cities were not dependent on international trade for their survival. They received the bulk of their food from the local sustainable farms in the rural areas that surrounded them. These farms used organic non-GMO seed that even if they used hybrid seed could be saved and produce a viable crop in the following year. The fertilizer used on the farms (nitrogen) came from animal manure (not refined from or produced by petrochemicals). The land for the farms was tilled and harvested using some of the animals that produced the fertilizer, no imported, refined fossil fuels or complicated machinery needed. The bulk of the food was transported by horse drawn wagon, train or boat. The few cars or trucks back then might be just as likely to use steam or peanut oil as fossil fuel. Much of the heavy equipment that was available ran on steam.

                  In the US these farms are now suburbs. My uncle who has just returned from a trip from Italy reported to me that the orchards (olives and citrus) that he saw back in the mid 1940's no longer exsist and are now factories. The problem is not limited to the US.

                  In the US homes in 1918 were food processing factories. They had to be due to the lack of refrigeration and Just-in-Time deliveries from halfway around the world delivering out of season produce that we have today. Back then women preserved in season foods for consumption later in the year. This was done by in-home methods. They canned, pickled, jellied, jammed, dried, salted and smoked produce and meat.

                  ----------------
                  GSGS if you check out John Barry's book The Great Influenza, Samoa was able to halt ALL incoming ships and advoided the plague. I imagine that created some "disruptions" of supplies of imported goods but beat the alternative hands down.

                  The book also reports in one hospital at the beginning of the pandemic: "Seven days into the epidemic....There were shortages of aspirin, atropine, digitalis, glacial acetic acid (a disinfectant), paper bags, sputum cups and thermometers -and thermometers that were available were being broken by men in delirium." page 215

                  During the height of the pandemic in Philadelphia, "No one could buy things. Commodities dealers, coal dealers, grocers closed "because the people who dealt in them were either sick or afraid and they had reason to be afraid.".....

                  Thirty eight hundred Pennsylvania Railroad workers were out. The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad set up its own emergency hospitals along its tracks. The entire transportation system for the mid-Atlantic region staggered and trembled, putting in jeopardy most of the nation's (US) industrial output." Page 332.

                  ------------

                  It is also a problem of scale. There is a much higher and less self relient, less self sustainable population to deal with now than in 1918.
                  We were put on this earth to help and take care of one another.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                    but whar's the estimated amount of these diruptions ?

                    say, 500000 excess deaths in USA in 1918 - how many of these
                    were due to "disruption" and how many directly due to H5N1 ?


                    today we heve a better infrastructure, better transport system
                    for goods than in 1918.
                    I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                    my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                      Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                      but whar's the estimated amount of these diruptions ?

                      say, 500000 excess deaths in USA in 1918 - how many of these
                      were due to "disruption" and how many directly due to H5N1 ?


                      today we heve a better infrastructure, better transport system
                      for goods than in 1918.
                      That number, at least in the US can probably only be estimated. Due to the high number of casualties at the height of the pandemic in 1918 mass graves were dug and many corpse were gathered by the wagonload and quickly buried without autopsy or much if any paperwork. Doctors and healthcare workers were to busy trying to care for those still living at the time. In the US in 1918 there was shortage of trained doctors and nurses as many were serving in WWI.

                      Also as part of that "infostructure"? Many of the aqueducts supplying drinking water to major cities were originally built in the late 1800's and early 1900's. New York recognized that the system might need a little work after almost 100 years and has been working on maintaining it. One set of doors on the water system had been installed in the early 1900's and never tested for the fear that they might not open again after getting them closed. When I was a child in New Jersey wooded water pipes that had probably been installed in the 17 or 1800's and were still in use up until that time were unearthed and replaced. I am concerned with the ability of some of these aging infostructures to meet the needs of the current and future populations especially during a crisis. THe weakness of our moderen transportation system is its relience on oil. If the supply is intrupted or the refining process slowed due to absenteeisum there could be problems. Are refinery workers on any of the lists as critical personnel for vacine if there is a pandemic?
                      We were put on this earth to help and take care of one another.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                        more than 50000 = 10% ?
                        my estimate would be closer to 1% than 10%.

                        Let alone 50% as in Osterholm's figure.
                        I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                        my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                          Originally posted by Amish Country View Post
                          GSGS if you check out John Barry's book The Great Influenza, Samoa was able to halt ALL incoming ships and advoided the plague. I imagine that created some "disruptions" of supplies of imported goods but beat the alternative hands down.
                          A little more on American Samoa.

                          Originally posted by Sally View Post
                          The Commission reported that American Samoa (Pago Pago) had entirely escaped the ravages of influenza, and it appears, from their report, that from the 20th November, to avoid the risk of introduction from Apia, the United States Governor at Pago Pago imposed on all ships arriving at this port five days absolute quarantine before discharging or taking on board any mail or cargo.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                            Originally posted by Oracle View Post

                            <i>To use the drinking water example: in 1918 we did not have complex drinking water treatment plants that chlorinated/disinfected water and no systems to distribute the treated water over large areas.</i>

                            Please read this:



                            More than one thousand US cities were routinely chlorinating the drinking water supply in 1918; public water supply chlorination standards were published in 1914.

                            Moreover, large-scale, complex drinking water supply distribution system technology (long distance transport and local storage) was pioneered in London and Germany, nearly 150 years earlier.
                            Drinking water disinfection and distribution were not assured in the US during 1918. Major US cities such as Washington DC and Denver were just STARTING to disinfect drinking water in 1918.

                            My point was that the infrastructure needs and dependence upon external inputs are not comparable between 1918 and 2008.
                            Separate the wheat from the chaff

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns

                              a statistics would be interesting, whether cities or countries with drinking
                              water desinfection did better in 1918.

                              Can we get the data, which cities had desinfection and which not ?
                              I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                              my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                              Comment

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