Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

[Mathematician]

So far I haven't any flour in my preps because in ordinary life I often seem to end up throwing out old flour (I'm fussy about it, and don't like to use stale-smelling flour on the rare occasions I bake) and I'm trying to prep with things I can rotate. But now I've ordered a lot of cheese so I have an incentive to work out how to store bread-making ingredients :-) Help?

It appears that any flour I buy will come in 1kg paper bags (i.e. I can't get it in sacks). I have a vacuum packing machine, and a small, permanently nearly-full freezer. This is my plan:

- buy mostly white bread (strong) flour, for longest life;

- put the whole paper bag unopened into a plastic vacuum-pack bag and vacuum pack it

- then put the bag in the freezer for 48 hours to kill weevil eggs

- then store the bag in the larder

Given what I have is this the best I can do? (Or, for example, is there a reason to do the freezing bit before the vacuum packing?) And how long after purchase can I reasonably expect to use this flour and not think "yuck, stale" as I use it?

TIA!

PS I already have a lot of rice and lentils stored, in the plastic bags it came in, but I haven't done any freezing on those bags because I've never observed bugs in rice or lentils - maybe the packages we buy here (UK) have been irradiated? Or have I just been lucky and should I start treating these bags in future?

[jlw]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Hi,
The freezing of your flour is to keep it fresh and the bugs out of it. They say flour keeps upto a year in the freezer, I use it even if it has been in there longer and it has always been fine just like when it was first opened. I always keep my flour in the freezer even after it has been open. As for any of your dry goods such as rice lentals , beans all of them can be stored in the freezer.
It is a good idea though if you can vaccume seal them into a plastic bag then put into freezer. This way if you have no way of keeping your freezer going then they will still be dry, sealed, and fresh. I hope this helped.........jlw

PS there is no reason for you to freeze them , before you vaccume pack them, just do it after you put them in the plastic bags.

[homestead]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

My experience has been (in the USA) that all my 5 lb. bags of regular flour easily last one year after being placed in the freezer for 24-48 hr. and having a good quality plastic bag (not a grocery bag) over them. I store them in my kitchen cupboard. Like you, I'm fussy about how my flour tastes because I love to bake breads, bagels, cookies and cakes and I make my own noodles, too. Bugs haven't been a problem.

Since we don't have the equipment, I haven't done any vacuum packing.

Ever since tiny black wormy things appeared in my 2 lb. bag of white rice earlier this year, I've been putting all my rice into the freezer for a couple of days before I store it. I never had bugs in rice before and didn't even think it could happen, but there they were, and the bag was only a few months old. Now that I'm buying it in 20 lb. bags, it's not easy to hoist it in and out of the chest freezer, let alone find room for it, but I hate to take a chance that I'll find little friends in it later on.

Hope this helps. Best wishes for your projects!

[DRJJ]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Because Flour is ground so finely, It is impossible to remove as much air as necessary to preserve the flour outside of the freezer. Put a small piece of dry ice in the bottom of an upright bag and then add the flour. After the dry ice has evaporated, place a coffee filter on the top of the bag to prevent the flour being evacuated and vacuum seal the bag. It is not necessary to freeze it, because insects will not survive without oxygen. Alternately, you can use an oxygen absorber.

[sharon sanders]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Welcome Mathematician.

[Wisdom]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Thanks for starting this thread! I was at Walmart this past weekend looking at containers for storing Flour and such. I have just a few small bags of flour and was wondering how to keep everything fresh and neat in my pantry. I haven't bought anything yet, but you guys really freaked me out about the bugs in the rice...ugh..Should I put mine in the freazer for a couple of days and then take it out and put it back in the pantry? I haven't had any problems with bugs and sure do not want to start...thanks

[Shannon Bennett]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Vacuuming is almost impossible with finely ground foods. I did use it for dried milk but it eventually ruined my machine. Someone long ago suggested putting a piece of paper toweling on top of finelly milled foods before vacuuming to help prevent as many fine particles as possible from being sucked into the machine. It works for a while but then the pump will eventually fail. So, my advice is to not use it unless it was a dire situation and the loss of your machine was a secondary consideration.

[Laidback Al]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Vacuum sealing is an excellent way to extend the shelf life of some food items. Of course it has other less obvious uses such as sealing batteries, old photos and documents, etc. Anything that is damage by oxidation can benefit from vacuum sealing.

There are several Yahoo group dedicated to tips and techniques of using vacuum sealing equipment. Here is the main one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FoodSaver/

[Lynda]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

I vacuum pack my flour (cornmeal, & corn masa mix for tortillas) in a vac bag, but I buy it in regular 4 lb bags so I can vac it inside the paper bag it comes in. Simply wipe the bag off, slip in into the vac bag, and seal. Very little dust. It literally turns into a brick!

I have some sealed for two years now, and it's still fine.

I have some in the freezer, too. Honestly, inside the vac bag, I have no idea how long it will keep in the freezer, but I think it's a loonnngggg time.

I freeze everything for two days, then I let it dry completely before sealing. I do this because I read that some buggies can last for a long time in a vac bag. There are air spaces between the food particles.

I think that the only way you could improve on this is to use 1/2 gallon canning jars.

Amazingly, a 1/2 canning jar will vacuum inside the tallest Foodsaver canister! I vac everything from tiny pimiento jars to 1/2 gallons.

All of my meds are vac sealed.

I also make silver/crystal/stone earrings, and I keep the earring parts sealed to prevent tarnish.

[DRJJ]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

I adore my canning jar attachment to my vacuum food sealer. I also use it very frequently, in all sorts of ways. Understand that jar sealing flour and grains does not really remove all the oxygen. It does reduce it substantially. Placing a piece of dry ice (Carbon Dioxide is heavier than air) will slowly fill the jar or bag from the bottom, displacing the air along with its oxygen (about 20%)) This jar can then be evacuated and sealed

The same thing can be done with Nitrogen, however, you will need a flow from a tube inserted into the bottom of the container and allowed to fill up and push out any air. It takes some flow of Nitrogen because Nitrogen and air are about the same density. An oxygen absorber (food grade) can be added to scarf up any remaining oxygen molecule.

Insects will not grow in the absense of oxygen.

[4-ABBA]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

My wife and I have quite a large supply of wheat berries, as well as beans and rice. As we also have a hand powered grain mill, we plan to keep the grain as is (sealed in double high density plastic containers) until we need it. Buggies or going rancid are non-issues. It's always fresh--and even after 7 years, in storage, it still sprouts.

We have enough to feed quite a few other households--for at least a few months.

[Mathematician]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Hi,
They say flour keeps upto a year in the freezer, I use it even if it has been in there longer and it has always been fine just like when it was first opened. I always keep my flour in the freezer even after it has been open. As for any of your dry goods such as rice lentals , beans all of them can be stored in the freezer.

That's the problem, though, I don't have the freezer space for that - as I said, I only have a small, always nearly-full freezer. I can just about find space to freeze one bag at a time for 48 hours, but storing those things in the freezer is a non-starter. (No room for another freezer, either.) The advice may help another reader though!

[Mathematician]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Ever since tiny black wormy things appeared in my 2 lb. bag of white rice earlier this year, I've been putting all my rice into the freezer for a couple of days before I store it.

That's what I was afraid someone would say - but thanks for saying it anyway :-)

[Mathematician]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

As we also have a hand powered grain mill

Ah, that might well be my next gadget, so can I ask how much you've tried using it and what the experience is like? I was a bit wary that it might be impractical to actually grind enough flour for bread regularly with one.

[Mathematician]

Re: Flour: vacuum pack? Etc.

Vacuuming is almost impossible with finely ground foods. I did use it for dried milk but it eventually ruined my machine. Someone long ago suggested putting a piece of paper toweling on top of finelly milled foods before vacuuming to help prevent as many fine particles as possible from being sucked into the machine. It works for a while but then the pump will eventually fail. So, my advice is to not use it unless it was a dire situation and the loss of your machine was a secondary consideration.

Did you try or consider sealing things like flour in their original paper bags, as suggested by Lynda? I don't want to ruin my machine but it sounds as though that worked for her... I take everyone's point that you can't get all the air out though.