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WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Jeremy

New member
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/01/AR2009050101777.html?hpid=topnews
Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Don't Leap to Conclusions, WHO Warns


By Joel Achenbach and David Brown
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, May 2, 2009

So is this new swine flu outbreak the next great plague, or just a global spasm of paranoia?


Are we seeing a pandemic or a panic?
The pathogen that has seized the world's attention has an official name (swine-origin influenza A H1N1), an acronym (S-OIV), a nickname (swine flu) and an apparent birthplace (Mexico). But the essential nature of the pathogen, its personality, its virulence, remain matters of frenetic investigation. Like all influenza viruses, it is mutating capriciously and, thus, is not a static and predictable public health threat but an evolving one.

The bug has gone global, having shown up in Asia yesterday with the first reported case in Hong Kong. It also popped up in Denmark, as well as in eight new U.S. states.

But there has been some flu-scare backlash, with some officials questioning whether schools are too quick to close their doors at the first hint of the virus.

The World Health Organization directly addressed the pandemic-versus-panic issue yesterday by cautioning the public against leaping to any conclusions about the virulence of the virus. It has yet to show lethality outside Mexico (the one person to die in the United States was a toddler who traveled from Mexico to Texas), though that doesn't mean it will remain a mild pathogen in the weeks and months to come, officials said.

Influenza is a simple virus, with just eight genes, but it makes poor copies of itself, leading to constant mutation. Most of those mutations are dead ends, but, given enough chances, the virus can become more infectious or more lethal. Although the United States is past its flu season, the Southern Hemisphere, where the virus has spread, is entering the cold months when influenza can become explosive.

Some positive news surfaced yesterday: Mexican scientists said the contagiousness of the swine flu is no greater than that of the seasonal flu that circulates every year. And a preliminary genetic analysis hasn't turned up any of the markers that scientists associate with the virulence of the 1918 "Spanish" influenza virus, said Nancy Cox, head of the flu lab of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The 1918-19 pandemic has cast a long shadow over today's health emergency. That virus circled the world, eventually infecting nearly everyone and killing at least 50 million people.

Jeffery Taubenberger, the National Institutes of Health researcher who reconstructed the 1918 influenza virus, said he is growing the new swine flu virus in his lab.

"We're very early on in figuring out what makes this virus tick. I am loath to make predictions about what an influenza virus that mutates so rapidly will do," he said. But he believes it will spread across the planet: "My prediction is that this strain will continue to spread, and it is very likely to become a pandemic virus, if it's not already a pandemic now. That does not mean that this has to be a very severe pandemic like 1918."

Michael T. Osterholm, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota, said the situation is analogous to forecasting a hurricane when meteorologists know only that there is a high-low pressure gradient in the Atlantic. "Everyone in one week wants an answer as to what it will do. Anyone who gives you an answer right now, do not listen to them about anything else because you cannot trust them," Osterholm said.

WHO spokesman Gregory Hartl noted yesterday that the public may misunderstand the word "pandemic." The term refers to where an illness spreads, not its severity.

A major unknown is the swine flu virus's "case-fatality rate" -- the small fraction of infected people who die. For the 1918 influenza, it was 2 to 2.5 percent for the United States as a whole, but in military camps and on troop ships, the rate was a brutal 7 to 10 percent, and in some Inuit villages, it soared to 70 percent.

The other two flu pandemics of the 20th century, however, were far milder. The Asian influenza of 1957-58 had a fatality rate of 0.2-0.5, and the rate during the Hong Kong influenza of 1968-69 was even lower, about 0.1 percent, close to what it is for seasonal flu.

The case-fatality rate of the swine flu will become certain only when epidemiologists are able to track its behavior from the moment it arrives in a population -- a difficult task under the best circumstances, which the current circumstances in Mexico aren't. Physicians there first suspected something strange when a small number of young adults showed up in the hospital with severe pneumonia.

The question is how many other people contracted influenza but never got very sick. Researchers must draw blood from a sample of people in affected towns and cities to estimate how many people were infected and never knew it.

The early signs from the United States and a few European countries where the strain is spreading suggest it is not unusually dangerous, as there have been few deaths so far. If that continues to be true, then it may help explain the mysteriously high mortality in Mexico. It may be that Mexico already has had hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions, of cases -- all but the most serious hidden in the "noise" of background illness in a crowded population.

The fact that most people infected in other countries had recently been to Mexico -- or were in direct contact with someone who had been -- is indirect evidence that the country may have been experiencing a silent epidemic for months.

Regardless of how dangerous it proves to be, the new swine flu virus is almost certain to eventually infect every continent and country, although that may take years. Studies in the 1930s found that 97 percent of people born before 1920 had antibodies to the Spanish influenza virus. That's evidence that virtually everyone alive in the three years it circulated -- 1918, 1919 and 1920 -- was at one point infected, even if they didn't know it.

A similar fate awaits any population exposed long enough to a new flu strain to which it has no immunity, experts believe.
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

"Everyone in one week wants an answer as to what it will do. Anyone who gives you an answer right now, do not listen to them about anything else because you cannot trust them," Osterholm said.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Anyone who says they "know" and give you an answer on what the this virus will do, at this point in time, should be completely disregarded.
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Does the fact that nobody knows invite the governments to do little to nothing as there is in fact nothing to do as there is no known, no probable outcome?

Osterholm is an epidemiologist. I'm just a well educated layperson. I know something he doesn't. H5N1 is a highly virulent form of flu. And H5N1 has conserved its virulence for the past 6 years, in multiple locations around the world. It has failed to add a small polymophism set to allow itself to easily transmit H2H. It may not be able to do so, but I've seen nothing that assures me this is the case and that this will not evolve otherwise. I would like to have seen such, and I've seen 3 dimensional modeling years ago that raised this possibility; yet it has achieved short chain H2H transmission.

Osterholm and Jeremy have each chosen to ignore this (my term) spectre that is waiting the arrival of H1N1.

Irrespective of what H1N1 is in terms of its severity at this time, there is a bigger drama now in play, that of recombinational probabilty with H5N1.

To the consequences of the outcome of that play, all of us, and I mean ALL of us, should be focused and proactively engaged.

I laud Osterholm for his series of conferences in which he has cajoled and invited major company employees so they may begin the job of consciousness raising and share pandemic plans. In that area, the man gets gold stars.

I fault Osterholm as intensely for failing to advocate, as an epidemiologist, the construction of infrastructure, vax manufacturing plants, vax packaging plant and equipment, vax disposable manufacturing and stockpiling, and most importantly, failing to project a belief that virus evolution offers the opportunity to itself be predicted, and thus for vast numbers of humans, to be warned and protected.

(Yes, I'm very aware of "universal vax" and its funding and I think it's only one avenue, and we as society are making a terrible mistake hoping to go from 1 to 100 without at the same time, also attempting to go from 1 to 5 and 10, etc. I speak my book on this point; but prior it to that being the case, I've believed in occam's razor, and determination of this simple virus' evolutionary pathway decision points does not require rocket science, but instead an indepth library of polymorphisms and some smart science programmers and thinkers.)
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Osterholm and Jeremy have each chosen to ignore this (my term) spectre that is waiting the arrival of H1N1.

Gaudia,

You assume WAY too much.

I never said I ignore the possibility. You are saying I do and that is not the case. I would appreciate it if you "didn't put words into my mouth" and if you have a question about what I am and am not thinking about than you can just ask.

I don't assume it as absolute that 2009 H1N1 will recombine with H5N1. It is defintely a possiblity, and one that we should be aware of and looking for.

I have not seen any scientific trials to support the claim that a new pandemic strain MUST recombine with a potential H5N1 pandemic strain. Is there a possibility that it will, of course, but it is not absolute.

There might be just as much chance of H5N1 becoming a pandemic tomorrow as it recombing with 2009 H1N1. I have never ruled out that possiblity.

The reason I bring up the point about "we don't know" is not to drive complancency, but to stress preperation. I think you are confusing the points I am making.

Right now there is a lot of press saying the virus is mild or not that lethal, and what I am saying is that "we don't know" what the virus is doing or going to do over the coming months....therefore, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

It's quite obvious to me that the Mexican population is teeming with swine influenza infections. There is simply no way that there are only a few thousand cases. For this to be true, those "few thousand" would've had to come into contact with all of the hundreds of foreign visitors who brought the disease back from Mexico to their respective countries. In a country with a population of approximately 109 million, that seems exceedingly unlikely.
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

A girl with 43 degrees of temperature


Hattip Aquarius

his comments ..This is from Poresto.net, a Mexican Newspaper.... I've been reading about the 1918 flu and vomiting blood was a common symptom. This is the first I've heard about it with this flu. Could it be mutating or is that just a pnemonia symptom?

cnspit1.JPG


Denuncian falta​
Whistleblower
de atenci?n m?dica​
Healthcare


Por Santos Gabriel Us Ak?​
For Santos Gabriel Us Ak?

Decenas de personas acudieron ayer a las cl?nicas p?blicas por tener fiebre o alg?n s?ntoma que les preocupa, pero lo peor de todo es que algunos no recibieron atenci?n m?dica, entre ellos los menores Demiyairel Cordero y V?ctor Andr?s, seg?n denunciaron sus padres por separado; mientras tanto, las cl?nicas del Seguro Social no dieron consulta externa ayer, por ser d?a inh?bil, y solamente atendieron a quienes ten?an s?ntomas de gripe.​
Dozens of people came yesterday to public clinics for fever or any symptoms that worry, but the worst part is that some did not receive medical care, including children Demiyairel and Victor Andr?s Cordero, as reported by their parents separate, while Meanwhile, the Social Security clinics gave no consultation yesterday, as non-working day, and only those who attended were flu symptoms.
Jes?s Cordero Cabrera, angustiado y con su hija enferma Demiyairel en brazos, denunci? que desde hace cuatro d?as le dieron un jarabe en el Hospital General ?Jes?s Kumate Rodr?guez?, pero continu? con fiebre, incluso ha vomitado sangre, y lo peor de todo fue que ayer se negaron a atenderla de nuevo.​
Jes?s Cordero Cabrera, distressed and with his sick daughter in her arms Demiyairel, reported that for four days gave a syrup at the General Hospital "Jesus Kumate Rodriguez," but continued with fever, even vomited blood, and worst of all was yesterday refused to meet again.
Respondi? que tiene 43 grados cent?grados de temperatura, tiene tos, y se?al? que a pesar de que el director del nosocomio orden? que atiendan a su hija, el m?dico cuyo nombre no precis? se neg? a prestar el servicio.​
Has responded to 43 degrees centigrade temperature, coughing, and noted that although the hospital director ordered to serve his daughter, the doctor whose name did not refused to provide the service.
Ante esta situaci?n, preocupado por la influenza humana, decidi? acudir a la Jurisdicci?n Sanitaria N?mero Dos a presentar su queja.​
In this situation, concerned about the human influenza, he decided to attend the Sanitary Jurisdiction Number Two to file your complaint.
Por su parte, Laura Serracino trajo tambi?n a su hijo V?ctor Andr?s al Hospital General, y denunci? que no quisieron atenderlo sino que lo mandaron al Centro de Salud de la Regi?n 516.​
For its part, Laura Serracino also brought his son Victor Andres General Hospital and reported that they would not attend but sent him to the Health Center of Region 516.
Explic? que desde hace cuatro d?as se niegan a atenderlo en la Sala de Urgencias con el argumento de que su fiebre a?n no es muy alta.​
He explained that for four days refused to attend the emergency room on the grounds that his fever is still not very high.
Ella manifest? su preocupaci?n por esta situaci?n, y mostr? la hoja para que vaya al Centro de Salud de la Regi?n 516.​
She expressed concern about this situation and showed the leaf to go to the Health Center of Region 516.
El Hospital General ?Jes?s Kumate Rodr?guez? trabaj? normalmente ayer debido a la contingencia sanitaria contra la influenza humana, y el pr?ximo cinco de mayo no habr? consulta externa sino solamente urgencias.​
General Hospital "Jes?s Rodr?guez Kumate" normally worked yesterday due to health contingency against human influenza, and next May there will be five outpatient emergencies only.
Mientras tanto, de acuerdo a un recorrido realizado en las cl?nicas del Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social (IMSS), se constat? que por ser d?a inh?bil no prest? servicios para consulta externa en general.​
Meanwhile, according to a tour conducted in clinics of the Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social (IMSS), which was found to be non-working day did not provide outpatient services in general.
El Seguro Social no apoy? la disposici?n federal de trabajar normalmente, sino solamente atend?a a quienes tengan fiebre, congesti?n nasal o malestar general en el cuerpo.​
Social Security did not support the provision of federal work normally, but only those who have cared for fever, nasal congestion and general malaise in the body.
Y las ?reas de urgencias todas laboraron como de costumbre en los d?as feriados.​
And the areas of emergency all worked as usual on holidays.
Por ejemplo, en la Unidad de Medicina Familiar, del Hospital General de Zona del IMSS de la avenida Cob?, hab?a alrededor de seis personas con s?ntomas de gripe esperando su turno de atenci?n.​
For example, in the Family Medicine Unit, Hospital General de Zona IMSS Cob? the avenue, there were about six people with flu symptoms waiting their turn for attention.
Sin embargo, no se pudo contactar a los pacientes ni fotografiarlos, pues los agentes de seguridad privada negaron el acceso.​
However, it was not possible to contact patients, or photograph, as private security agents denied access. :tiphat:http://tinyurl.com/cu973q
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

She had a fever of 109 Fahrenheit? I'm not too sure I believe that. Did I misread something?
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

This temperature is within the range of human endurance.

Human body temperature regulation in extremely stressful environment: epidemiology and pathophysiology of heat stroke

Abstract

Biological functions are basically dependent on the thermosensitive characteristics of the proteins and fatty substances composing the body structure. In a stressful environment, the extremely high human body temperatures detected by computer screening in our laboratory of exercise physiology are in the range of 41.0?46.5 ?C, of which the highest temperature was identical with the highest value described in the latest Guinness Book of Records. The highest body temperature value of 46.5 ?C reported in (Solvis et al. Ann. Emerg. Med. 11(5) (1982) 269) is thought to be extremely high compared to those of the other vertebrates. The concept of critical thermal maximum (CTM) has been defined in the present literature as the minimal degree of long-term hyperthermia, beyond which life-threatening damage develops in a homeotherm. In man the CTM has been estimated at 41.6?42.0 ?C. Therefore, in the present paper, physiological, pathological and clinical cases of hyperthermia beyond 42.0 ?C, as detected in 51 papers, and the biological inhibitory mechanisms preventing hyperthermia in an extremely high ambient temperature and the immunological protection mechanisms associated with strong heat stresses, were discussed from the viewpoints of the secondary chemical regulation as well as of the negative feed back system that controls body temperature.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=4ba04906addecc1f468d707444a415bd
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Survival messages posted at a FT thread, confirms that many have extremely hot temperature and tactile temperature of the body skin.

That seems to confirm the previous claims of extremes.

#1: ...

From the text highlights of WPost in Jeremy post #1,
we learn that many worst options are already open.

This is in open colision with the actual worldwide estabs statements about an "light" form of flu, seemingly the "usual" seasonal one.

Such estabs claiming could be named as downplaying, or as pure truth.

Today such statement of ~ light because the virus have not the serious outcome genetic components as the 1918 flu, and it remains gen. the same as the virus isolated in Mexico - stated from the CDC Cox today, claim that this is an light virus.

So, here we are some independent biology/gen. experts at FT,

are the actual state of scientific knowledge indeed:
confirm or deny the stated patern of "light" flu?
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/01/AR2009050101777.html?hpid=topnews
Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

Don't Leap to Conclusions, WHO Warns


By Joel Achenbach and David Brown
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, May 2, 2009

So is this new swine flu outbreak the next great plague, or just a global spasm of paranoia?


Are we seeing a pandemic or a panic?
The pathogen that has seized the world's attention has an official name (swine-origin influenza A H1N1), an acronym (S-OIV), a nickname (swine flu) and an apparent birthplace (Mexico). But the essential nature of the pathogen, its personality, its virulence, remain matters of frenetic investigation. Like all influenza viruses, it is mutating capriciously and, thus, is not a static and predictable public health threat but an evolving one.

The bug has gone global, having shown up in Asia yesterday with the first reported case in Hong Kong. It also popped up in Denmark, as well as in eight new U.S. states.

But there has been some flu-scare backlash, with some officials questioning whether schools are too quick to close their doors at the first hint of the virus.

The World Health Organization directly addressed the pandemic-versus-panic issue yesterday by cautioning the public against leaping to any conclusions about the virulence of the virus. It has yet to show lethality outside Mexico (the one person to die in the United States was a toddler who traveled from Mexico to Texas), though that doesn't mean it will remain a mild pathogen in the weeks and months to come, officials said.

Influenza is a simple virus, with just eight genes, but it makes poor copies of itself, leading to constant mutation. Most of those mutations are dead ends, but, given enough chances, the virus can become more infectious or more lethal. Although the United States is past its flu season, the Southern Hemisphere, where the virus has spread, is entering the cold months when influenza can become explosive.

Some positive news surfaced yesterday: Mexican scientists said the contagiousness of the swine flu is no greater than that of the seasonal flu that circulates every year. And a preliminary genetic analysis hasn't turned up any of the markers that scientists associate with the virulence of the 1918 "Spanish" influenza virus, said Nancy Cox, head of the flu lab of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The 1918-19 pandemic has cast a long shadow over today's health emergency. That virus circled the world, eventually infecting nearly everyone and killing at least 50 million people.

Jeffery Taubenberger, the National Institutes of Health researcher who reconstructed the 1918 influenza virus, said he is growing the new swine flu virus in his lab.

"We're very early on in figuring out what makes this virus tick. I am loath to make predictions about what an influenza virus that mutates so rapidly will do," he said. But he believes it will spread across the planet: "My prediction is that this strain will continue to spread, and it is very likely to become a pandemic virus, if it's not already a pandemic now. That does not mean that this has to be a very severe pandemic like 1918."

Michael T. Osterholm, an epidemiologist at the University of Minnesota, said the situation is analogous to forecasting a hurricane when meteorologists know only that there is a high-low pressure gradient in the Atlantic. "Everyone in one week wants an answer as to what it will do. Anyone who gives you an answer right now, do not listen to them about anything else because you cannot trust them," Osterholm said.

WHO spokesman Gregory Hartl noted yesterday that the public may misunderstand the word "pandemic." The term refers to where an illness spreads, not its severity.

A major unknown is the swine flu virus's "case-fatality rate" -- the small fraction of infected people who die. For the 1918 influenza, it was 2 to 2.5 percent for the United States as a whole, but in military camps and on troop ships, the rate was a brutal 7 to 10 percent, and in some Inuit villages, it soared to 70 percent.

The other two flu pandemics of the 20th century, however, were far milder. The Asian influenza of 1957-58 had a fatality rate of 0.2-0.5, and the rate during the Hong Kong influenza of 1968-69 was even lower, about 0.1 percent, close to what it is for seasonal flu.

The case-fatality rate of the swine flu will become certain only when epidemiologists are able to track its behavior from the moment it arrives in a population -- a difficult task under the best circumstances, which the current circumstances in Mexico aren't. Physicians there first suspected something strange when a small number of young adults showed up in the hospital with severe pneumonia.

The question is how many other people contracted influenza but never got very sick. Researchers must draw blood from a sample of people in affected towns and cities to estimate how many people were infected and never knew it.

The early signs from the United States and a few European countries where the strain is spreading suggest it is not unusually dangerous, as there have been few deaths so far. If that continues to be true, then it may help explain the mysteriously high mortality in Mexico. It may be that Mexico already has had hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions, of cases -- all but the most serious hidden in the "noise" of background illness in a crowded population.

The fact that most people infected in other countries had recently been to Mexico -- or were in direct contact with someone who had been -- is indirect evidence that the country may have been experiencing a silent epidemic for months.

Regardless of how dangerous it proves to be, the new swine flu virus is almost certain to eventually infect every continent and country, although that may take years. Studies in the 1930s found that 97 percent of people born before 1920 had antibodies to the Spanish influenza virus. That's evidence that virtually everyone alive in the three years it circulated -- 1918, 1919 and 1920 -- was at one point infected, even if they didn't know it.

A similar fate awaits any population exposed long enough to a new flu strain to which it has no immunity, experts believe.

To the powers that be:

This initial story is a good read - and very informative as to the excess of disinformation - and it is getting lost in the shuffle of secondary issues - should it/can it have its own thread??? - with a sticky???
 
Re: WHO: Flu's True Severity Is Still Unknown

It's quite obvious to me that the Mexican population is teeming with swine influenza infections. There is simply no way that there are only a few thousand cases. For this to be true, those "few thousand" would've had to come into contact with all of the hundreds of foreign visitors who brought the disease back from Mexico to their respective countries. In a country with a population of approximately 109 million, that seems exceedingly unlikely.


I think Rockyman makes a legitimate point here!
 
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