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Pigeons replace chickens????

AlaskaDenise

In Memoriam
Iowa warns investors off Pigeon King International

Canadian-owned pigeon farming company accused of misleading investors


Randy Boswell, CanWest News Service

Published: Tuesday, December 18, 2007

A Canadian businessman behind a multi-million-dollar network of pigeon farms across North America -- his empire fuelled by predictions of a post-chicken world ruled by squab -- is under investigation after the State of Iowa issued an alert to potential investors that Pigeon King International may be a Ponzi scam.

In a statement sent to CanWest News Service, Iowa's attorney-general warns that the Waterloo, Ont.-based company, which has attracted hundreds of Canadian and U.S. farmers to its bird-breeding operation despite having no immediate end-market for slaughtered pigeons, may be "misleading consumers regarding the true viability of establishing several large pigeon processing plants" and "providing inventory for new growers in furtherance of a Ponzi type of investment scheme."

The statement, issued last week by the office of Iowa's Attorney-General Tom Miller, added: "We believe that potential investors/buyers should be very cautious and examine the situation very carefully -- especially the question of whether there is a realistic and independent market for pigeons now and in the future."

Pigeon King president Arlan Galbraith defends his enterprise, insisting Iowa authorities have been misled by critics blinded by "jealousy and envy" over his firm's rise to riches.

Praising the pigeon's growth rate -- "They multiply their weight 60 times in 28 days" -- Galbraith added "pigeons don't get avian flu and they don't spread it.

"Avian flu has the potential to destroy the chicken industry. At that point in time, pigeons will be a very valuable source of meat protein," Galbraith said in an interview Monday with CanWest News Service.

Jim Clark, head of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's avian influenza working group, said scientific experiments have shown pigeons to be uncannily resistant to the bird flu. But he added that recent studies of a virulent new Asian strain of the H5N1 virus show it does infect the species.

Clark added that Canada and other countries have established controls to prevent the poultry industry from being devastated by avian influenza.

Galbraith said he has already delivered breeding birds to about 700 investors -- half in Canada, half in the U.S. -- to supply a future global squab meat industry. He said he expects to hit the restaurant and grocery markets around the world with high-quality, low-priced pigeon products within four years. While noting that China and India are the main international markets for pigeon meat, Galbraith said his goal is to make squab "mainstream" among North American consumers.

"Our goal is to introduce these birds more into the mainstream population," he said. "We're going to do it by mass production and very low prices, which has never been done before. It's always been produced on a small scale at a high price.

"I can guarantee you I am not running any Ponzi scheme," he added, "but, I mean, it's great fodder for critics. There's all kinds of people in Iowa that know all about this situation, and they're begging me to do business with them -- in spite of knowing all the details of this.

"I've been doing this for six years, and I can guarantee you that every person that breeds pigeons for us has got paid in full every four weeks for the birds that they ship .... Every one of them has been paid a profitable price for six years running .... You ask the hog industry and the cattle industry about that and see if they can make that claim."

Ponzi schemes, named for 1920s American Charles Ponzi, enrich early investors at the expense of latecomers. Payments to original investors are typically made using money generated by finding new people to buy in to the business. Later investors eventually run out of fresh recruits to the scheme -- and with no other source of revenue, the "pyramid" finally collapses.

.
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

"pigeons don't get avian flu and they don't spread it..."

This statement is a threat to public health. A partial list hat tip Niko:

"A search of NIH (Genbank?) yielded the following pigeons with H5N1 (many more with other Influenza A):

Influenza A virus (A/feral pigeon/HK/862.7/2002(H5N1))
Influenza A virus (A/Pigeon/Hong Kong/SF215/01 (H5N1))
Influenza A virus (A/Pigeon/Hong Kong/SF215/01 (H5N1))
Influenza A virus (A/pigeon/Samut Prakan/Thailand/CU-202/04(H5N1))
Influenza A virus (A/pigeon/Thailand/KU-03/04(H5N1)).."


http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22763&postcount=2
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

There were some studies reported that pigeons in laboratory must got 5000 times more concentrations of bf virus to get infected.

Are these sequences laboratory sequences, or the bf strains changed enaugh to easily infect pigeons?
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

"pigeons don't get avian flu and they don't spread it..."

This statement is a threat to public health. ."...

These statements just don't go away. :(

It's scarey to think of so many "authories and/or journalists" who seriously need to further their AI education.

Many folks think if they don't die, they're not infected - not having heard of dangerous asymtomatic carriers.

Or they don't understand how different various H5N1 strains can impact different species with very different outcomes.

Personally, I'm going to out on a limb and say the only group that may not get H5N1 is reptiles. :D

.
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

The St. Jude?s group inoculated house sparrows, European starlings and pigeons with four strains of H5N1 that were isolated in 2004 - 2006. ...
Because pigeons shed only low amounts of virus upon infection and they did not transmit to contact birds, their role in the ecology of influenza (H5N1) virus may be minor.

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H5N1 infection in sparrows, starlings and pigeons
<HR style="COLOR: #cccccc" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->It?s taken longer than many of us wanted, but some new data on host susceptibility is now coming in. The influenza research group at St. Jude?s has just published a paper in CDC?s journal, Emerging Infectious Diseases, verifying that common land based birds can be infected with highly pathogenic avian influenza virus H5N1. The St. Jude?s group inoculated house sparrows, European starlings and pigeons with four strains of H5N1 that were isolated in 2004 - 2006.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P>


Hi path H5N1 was first found in poultry in southern China in 1996. It is lethal to chickens and other poultry. Ducks are usually unaffected, although some strains are lethal to ducks as well. The combination of poultry movements and movement of infected aquatic wildfowl have spread hi path H5N1 widely to poultry and birds from Asia to Europe to the Middle East to Africa. Most affected birds are poultry species like chickens, turkey, ducks and quail, but on occasion other birds have been found infected, including budgerigars, finches, mapgpies, tree sparrows, pigeons and a crow. The St. Jude study looked at three small landbased birds to get a better handle on the biology of the virus in these common species.<O:P></O:P>

Sparrows, starlings and pigeons were inoculated with one or more of four H5N1 isolates to test their susceptibility to infection and see how much and how long they shed virus if infected. They also co-housed uninfected birds of the same species with infected ones to see if there was transmissibility. Two of the viruses were isolated from a duck and a quail in Thailand in 2005. The other two were obtained from dead wild birds, a Common Magpie and a Japanese White Eye, whose corpses were collected in early 2006 when Hong Kong intensified surveillance.<O:P></O:P>

The sparrows fared poorly. All or most died within a week, with high viral loads in brain and lung. None of the starlings or pigeons died, but all of the starlings were infected and some of the pigeons, depending upon the virus. The virus isolated from the Common Magpie had the broadest host range, infecting all the sparrows, starlings and pigeons, but the duck virus, so lethal to the sparrows, could not be recovered from inoculated pigeons. There was no evidence of any transmission between birds of the same species, the place were transmission would be most likely. One instance of transmission was seen in starlings but couldn?t be repeated with additional trials.
<O:P></O:P>
The authors observe that these experiments show pigeons, starlings and sparrows more susceptible to these recent H5N1 isolates than they were previously reported to be to an earlier 1997 isolate. They suggest this is consistent with the wider host range of the recent viruses, including mice, ferrets and cats. The evidence that host range has increased is still scant, however. They conclude:<O:P></O:P>


A critical question concerning these small avian species is whether they can serve as intermediate hosts or reservoirs for influenza (H5N1) viruses and transmit them to poultry and mammals. Sparrows were highly susceptible to influenza (H5N1) infection; however, they did not transmit to sentinel contact birds, despite a relatively low infectious dose . . . and the fact that virus was common in drinking water and fecal samples. Although it is possible that the high pathogenicity of these viruses prevented bird-to-bird transmission, the data suggest that this species can act as an intermediate host and potentially transmit to both poultry and mammals but not serve as a reservoir for prolonged shedding of highly pathogenic influenza (H5N1) viruses. In contrast, the characteristics of influenza (H5N1) infection in starlings, i.e., nonfatal with longer-term shedding, suggest that starlings could act as an intermediate host and a reservoir for influenza (H5N1) virus. However, evidence of transmission to contact starlings was limited, which implies that these strains are unsustainable in a starling population. Because pigeons shed only low amounts of virus upon infection and they did not transmit to contact birds, their role in the ecology of influenza (H5N1) virus may be minor.
<O:P></O:P>

Our results indicate that there are considerable differences in susceptibility to influenza (H5N1) virus among various small terrestrial wild bird species. The high virulence of several recent isolates in sparrows suggests that this and other populations of small terrestrial birds may have substantial losses during current and future outbreaks. Further mutation of circulating influenza (H5N1) viruses might enhance their adaptation to hosts such as starlings and sparrows, further increasing virulence or allowing these species to become efficient intermediate hosts in the ecology of influenza (H5N1) viruses. (Boon et al., Emerging Infectious Diseases, [Epub ahead of print])<O:P></O:P>

We agree that whether these birds or other animal species can serve (or do serve?) as a reservoir for this virus is a critical question. Given the variability in response seen here and the small number of animals, experiments and isolates, we think it premature to dismiss the possibility of small land birds as a reservoir. All that can be said is that these experiments do not show evidence this is currently or potentially the case. But the authors acknowledge the experiments are extremely limited.<O:P></O:P>

Still, this is the kind of work that urgently needs to be done, not just in birds but in other possible reservoirs and intermediate hosts (usually a transitory or secondary host as a vehicle for an agent moving between one host and another). What about other small mammals, reptiles, even arthropods?<O:P></O:P>

So many questions. So little time. <!-- google_ad_section_end --><CENTER><!--Creative-->

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"The next major advancement in the health of American people will be determined by what the individual is willing to do for himself"-- John Knowles, Former President of the Rockefeller Foundation
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Pigeon.gif
Connection between extinction of passenger pigeons and the Spanish flu?
<HR style="COLOR: #cccccc" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->A few weeks ago i read this entry in wikipedia.

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">In the early 1800s, commercial hunters began netting and shooting the birds to sell in the city markets as food, as live targets for trap shooting and even as agricultural fertilizer and mast food. The bird painter John James Audubon described the rigorous slaughter: "Few Pigeons were then to be seen, but a great number of persons, with horses and wagons, guns and ammunition, had already established encampments on the borders. Two farmers from the vicinity of Russelsville, distant more than a hundred miles, had driven upwards of three hundred hogs to be fattened on the pigeons which were to be slaughtered. Here and there, the people employed in plucking and salting what had already been procured, were seen sitting in the midst of large piles of these birds. The dung lay several inches deep, covering the whole extent of the roosting-place." </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng...and_extinction

Is it possible, that the virus shift of H1N1 happend through such practices in the decades before "Spanish flu"??
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....
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

Denise, you rash soul.
Personally, I'm going to out on a limb and say the only group that may not get H5N1 is reptiles. :D

Fish are the only vertebrates safe from the virus. LOL


</IMG>
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

Personally, I'm going to out on a limb and say the only group that may not get H5N1 is reptiles. :D
Influenza in heterothermics (2004)

Abstract: A study was conducted to investigate Orthomyxoviridae infection in heterothermic animals. Blood samples from snakes, Bothrops and Crotalus, and from toads and frogs, Bufo and Rana, were collected to evaluate the red cell receptors and antibodies specific to influenza virus using haemagglutination and haemagglutination inhibition test, respectively. Both snakes and toads kept in captivity presented receptors in their red cells and antibodies specific to either influenza virus type A (human and equine origin) or influenza type B. The same was observed with recently captured snakes. The influenza haemagglutination inhibition antibodies protective levels were observed in the reptiles' serum, against influenza type A and type B. Unlike the toads, 83.3% of the frogs presented mean levels of Ab 40HIU for some influenza strains. It is concluded that heterothermic animals could offer host conditions to the influenza virus and also susceptibility to the infection.

http://www.cababstractsplus.org/google/abstract.asp?AcNo=20043108680

Who knew?!
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

Denise, you rash soul.


Fish are the only vertebrates safe from the virus. LOL


</IMG>
Even here it means ... fish is not really save ... You remember to the fish farming?

Joe Dudley raised this "fish as fomites" issue with Dr. Robert Webster at the Rome conference.

"Webster said that it was possible that live H5N1 virus could be present in the intestinal tract of detritus-feeding fish, like carp, that may eat infected poultry manure or as an environmental contaminant in the intestinal tract of fish that had been raised in ponds fertilized with infected poultry manure."
http://www.promedmail.org/pls/askus...,F2400_P1001_USE_ARCHIVE:1001,20060605.1567,Y

... "Can consumers become infected from eating mussels or fish carrying the bird flu virus? Viruses can be transmitted to man through the consumption of raw or insufficiently heated mussels and trigger gastro-intestinal infections. The main ones are calici or hepatitis A viruses which are extremely resistant to invironmental influences. By contrast, influenza viruses are more sensitive to environmental influences. The examination of samples from surface waters confirms the trend for the contagiousness of avian influenza viruses to decrease as salt content increases. The risk of consumers contracting bird flu from mussels or fish contaminated with influenza A viruses is considered to be low. Nevertheless, because of the unknown residual risk, consumers are advised not to eat raw mussels or raw fish collected or caught in regions in which the avian influenza virus has been detected. During preparation mussels and fish should, therefore, be heated for at least 10 minutes to 70 ?C or more. This will definitely destroy the virus which is highly heat-sensitive."
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cm/279/selec...food_hygiene_in_conjunction_with_bird_flu.pdf
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

Theresa.......

So you leave me with my old safe FERN - which was my online photo in another forum about 3 years ago. At that time, Sharpe told me they didn't get BF.

We should all become vegetarians.

Poor toads.........they're an indicator species for so many things already, I hate to see them succumb to AI also.

Influenza is just WAY too smart. :D

.
</IMG>
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

Well the flu is going to have to hold off then I have plans for a very fine meal indeed on Christmas. No way would I consider becoming a vegetarian with a standing rib roast on the dining table. Somehow Brussels sprouts alone just aren't going to make me happy.
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

It's just a matter of habituation. I do it since two Years, and I miss nothing. In the meanwhile I can't stand the taste of meat.
But nevertheless I eat meat if I'm invited somewhere, I don't like this harassed compassion of some "carnivores".
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

I've been thinking about becoming vegetarian since reading the book Mad Cowboy.

The whole avian influenza issue just adds another layer of reasons to change.

Although we've cut back on our meat consumption, we haven't made the leap yet.

Oddly, I find that when I go a few days without meat - I crave cheeseburgers. Not steak or chicken, but cheeseburgers.

TVP isn't bad and we've utilized powdered eggs for weeks at a time when free range eggs weren't available.

Don't think I could consider being vegan as I LOVE dairy products, but we'll eventually eliminate most flesh products with or without BF.
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

About fish, the Dudley article says:

"...the trend for the contagiousness of avian influenza viruses to decrease as salt content increases. "

So, if we super-saturate chickes with salt in their feed, the transmission rate will decrease?

Is it really salt that decreases contagiousness, or is it somet other "salt" like potassium?

J.
 
Re: Pigeons replace chickens????

from: http://www.kyeemafoundation.org/rural_poultry/Avian%20Influenza.htm

2. Characteristics of Avian influenza virus

Resistance to physical and chemical action
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR class=bodytext><TD vAlign=top width=138>Temperature:


</TD><TD vAlign=top width=408>Inactivation by 56 º C/3 hours; 60 º /30 min


</TD></TR><TR class=bodytext><TD vAlign=top width=138>PH:


</TD><TD vAlign=top width=408>Inactivated by < pH 5 or > pH 8


</TD></TR><TR class=bodytext><TD vAlign=top width=138>Chemicals:


</TD><TD vAlign=top width=408>Inactivated by oxidising agents, sodium dodecyl sulphate, lipid solvents, ß -propiolactone


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Tenacity
Influenza A viruses may remain viable for long periods of time in infected faeces (up to 3 days at 20 ° C – depending on the amount of virus), but also in tissues (in carcasses a few days at ambient temperature, but up to 23 days when stored cool) and water (duck influenza virus is proofed proven to be infectious for 4 days at 22 ° C in water). Direct sunlight will also inactivate the virus.

from: http://www.kyeemafoundation.org/rural_poultry/Avian Influenza.htm

Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth's oceans, caused by their uptake of anthropogeniccarbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.179 to 8.104 (a change of -0.075)<SUP class=reference id=_ref-orr05_0>[1]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=_ref-key04_0>[2]</SUP>.


From the second source, note that by the year 2050, models forecast that dissolved CO2 in the ocean will change the Ph to 7.949. This will eliminate ocean water's ablity to inactivate influenza. :(

.
 
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